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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."

Darmo

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  1. Better "Building" materials.

    Adobe bricks would be good, as there was a great demand for them for TFC1, given that pretty much every LP I watched used that mod that brought in adobe bricks. The rest of the stone age stuff are a bit 'meh' to me, unless they do in fact get incorporated into a mechanic of resisting mob attack. The plaster and half timber stuff is what I'd be most wanting. In TFC1 I would keep all raw chalk and granite blocks, because they were the best simulation of plaster that could be had in vanilla TFC1. But that was very tedious. It'd be really great to be able to make plaster. Maybe gypsum would be the 'easy-mode' way to get it, with baking lime the 'hard way'.
  2. Slingshot

    Slingshots depend upon elastic material. Basically rubber, and irl were not possible till vulcanized rubber was discovered in the mid-1800s. Slings on the other hand, have existed god-only-knows how long. But have also been suggested before. A lot. Like, many times. A ridiculous amount, honestly, for what would be an early-game weapon, abandoned in the mid-to-late game, or at best kept for hunting.
  3. Encumberance

    Thanks, it went through a lot of revision so I'm glad it made some sense. I did totally forget to mention one other characteristic that could separate containers, that being speed of opening. So chests and large vessels could open faster, barrels could have a pause, bins a longer pause, and crates could have nails in the texture, and require the player to right click each one with a hammer to open the crate. In that scenario maybe crates could have a lot of slots, since they would not be quick-access. Safes/vault doors would have a code to input, and then either instant, or some additional pause. Also I was going to suggest having bins maybe only show half their inventory, with the rest of the slots light grey for empty or dark grey for occupied. This would kind of represent that they are mass-storage solutions, not great for finding what you put in them fast.
  4. Encumberance

    So I wanted to make a case for a non-enumerated system of containers and inventory. I was planning on making a separate post, but ultimately it's all about encumberance, so I decided to continue this thread. Originally I was going to propose is a system that does not use weight at all, but found some problems so now am basically proposing to keep TFC1's system of size and weight, that does not use any numbers. This is as opposed to the OP and in Konlii's tier-based weight/encumbrance thread. THE TLDR: In a nutshell, I think a non-enumerated system of size and weight, like TFC1 used, would be sufficient to accomplish the above goals. The main 'new' mechanic would be to limit heavy items like ore (and building materials if desired) to the hotbar only, and not allow them in the inventory itself. By doing this you limit the player's native slots that can carry the heavy items, and so it becomes much easier to make conveyances that are superior in capacity. Specifically if ore blocks dropped themselves, and then had to be pulverized for ore, those ore blocks could be made to fit only on the hotbar, and stack very low (4 or 8, perhaps). Furthermore, I think a non-enumerated system would be simpler to balance. Rather than having to decide how much every single thing weighs, and how much every container will hold, and trying to balance it all, and having the 'realists' complain, you only worry about 'what should fit in this container' and 'what is the effect of this weight on the player'. There is still some balancing, but less detaily, I think. I think it would also be easier for players to understand and plan around: it's much easier to understand how many slots you have available I think, vs figuring out how much weight capacity you need to allow for a given task (I'm assuming that in an enumerated system the player would have a meter or number to tell them how much they are currently carrying, so knowing how much weight they are already carrying would not be hard). That's the idea in a nutshell. I'd now like to try and portray how this system could function, and the variety of containers and conveyances that might be used to create a dynamic and interesting system. SIZE AND WEIGHT CATEGORIES CONTAINER TRAITS CONTAINERS AND SKILL CONTAINER LIST CONTAINER DETAILS So that's all the basic details. There would of course be other containers, this was just a basic list. I was going to add more containers (like Stroam's seed bags) but the spoiler mechanics of this forum and the table I cut and pasted, don't play well. In the early game, large items could be cumbersome to deal with. The player's first copper mine will probably be where the player sets up operations. They may well process the ore down in the mine, since it will be somewhat tedious to carry it out, without conveyances or pack frames. They can carry 1 block at a time and run and jump and climb, but any more and they can't do those. So they would have to build a staircase out of the mine, and they would have to walk it. But, once the player has that first saw, they can make a cart, maybe a pack frame and crates, and now they can transport ore more effectively. There is still the question of what would make the player use minecarts for mining vs pack animals, since pack animals don't require tracks. It could perhaps be that some ores are even heavier, and cannot be carried by pack animals (or wooden rails). These would probably be fantasy ores, maybe iron. If such ores were y-limited to deeper regions, it would make the staircase scenario less practical. The track problem could also be alleviated somewhat if there are mineshafts - similar to the abandoned mineshafts in vanilla, except not abandoned. They could provide a good supply of tracks. There could also be added weight categories, for instance that only prevent the player from climbing ladders and jumping, but still allows them to run. But anyway, that's my case on why limiting certain large items to the hotbar could make the non-enumerated system still deserves consideration.
  5. Encumberance

    I think you meant something like 50% and 75% decreases? A 100% decrease would be immobilized. Are we talking in the context of an enumerated weight system? I'd think it'd be better just to base it on total weight, and the armor weighs a lot? Unless the plan were to discourage the player from wearing heavy armor constantly, as is the norm in TFC1 (or vanilla, for that matter). In that case it actually probably would simplify things to just give the armor a speed debuff all it's own. 50% seems like too much to me though.
  6. Encumberance

    Ya, I've read before about how full armor was much more mobile that some stereotypes allow. Probably has a lot to do with the fact that armor and knights declined as armies changed to firearms, and so the remaining armor became more ceremonial, and less well suited for field use. There was also the matter of jousting armor, which was entirely different from combat armor.
  7. Weapons, sheats, and ranged weapons

    Not totally opposed, but not wild about it. Logically I'd think a shield would make more sense if you killed a missile-using enemy to unlock it - the assumption being it used it's missiles on you, so you decide you need a shield. At a minimum, if killing with missile is the gate, it needs to be an actually threatening enemy. No killing rabbits and chickens to unlock shields. As for armor, I think it remains to be seen how armor shakes out. Will there even be different types with different resistances? Or will it merely be differences in effective tier level, and maybe encumbrance? Unless the differences are significant, I'm not really a fan of unlocking. Weapons, so what would the player start with, a knife, axe, and a javelin? Everything else (presumably at least sword and mace) would have to be unlocked? If it's only mace and sword, I don't know that there's much point in gating them. I have a hard time imagining a much larger resistance array as far as weapons go, if we're going by damage type. I'd forsee people grousing over maces, as that's probably the very first kind of weapon mankind ever had. I guess to me in general it'd make more sense to have weapons unlocked by obtaining an example of that weapon from an enemy. Even armor could work that way. And then you wouldn't automatically unlocked things the first time, assuming mobs dropping weapons and armor is rare. That might make it less a matter of checking off a box, and more of a surprise-reward-drop situation. Which might be more enjoyable. By 'protected' do you mean has innate or armor resistance? Because while skeletons are common in vanilla, I'm hoping that in TFC2 they will be far less common. I would think that there would be humanoid mobs (goblins, orcs, troglodytes, etc) that would fill in the 'general threat' roster. With more resistant mobs being perhaps more rare. That could be totally off though.
  8. Encumberance

    Forgot to mention that I do I like that, although I think keeping the back slot for backpacks and maybe cloaks or something would be a good idea. What would people think of a meta-change from barrels being the long-range transport option, to carts or pack animals? So then barrels could prevent you from running/jumping/laddering. Making the ability to move them more a matter of arranging them, rather than using them to transport goods on your person.
  9. Encumberance

    I was envisioning each container having it's own inventory, like vessels in TFC1, but that's a good look, and would handle size variance neatly, and like Stroam says it would allow easy transfer between containers. But my concern would be that it may not allow for much container size variance. I was hoping containers could have increased slots, with increased player skill. Maybe as many as 5 different grades. Although not all would necessarily increase inventory.
  10. A small question

    I don't know about agricraft, but seed genetics has been suggested in the agriculture thread.
  11. Encumberance

    That was the 'new' concept, yes. I mean, I call it 'size' out of habit, and also 'size' is one syllable vs 'encumbrance', but it's the same general notion. I think you're very correct that both weigh and physical dimensions can play into how an item is classed. But so the size/encumbrance would factor into where in the inventory things fit, but also what containers they fit in, as it did in TFC1. I didn't rehash that since it's an old concept. So for instance vessels could accept up to tiny or small or whatever, backpacks another size larger, chests another size larger, etc. EXCEPT that there will be cases where certain items have their own specialized piles and racks and so forth, regardless of size. So it's not only what fits where in the inventory, but also what fits in what containers. But you're right, there could in theory be different sections of inventory that accept a certain max size. I'm a big fan of having a variety of containers, some specialized, and the good thing about enumerated encumbrance, was that a container could offset that, to give that container an advantage. So you could have a wheelbarrow which might offset 50% of the weight inside, but could only carry dirt, sand, gravel, cobble, etc. This would encourage the player very strongly to use that wheelbarrow in those situations. But even better, it allowed there to be a skill production bonus. So a normal wheelbarrow reduces the weight 50%, but an 'excellent' wheelbarrow reduces it 60%, and 'masterwork' 70%. And that would be pretty nice I think. So, there's good things about having numbers. I just think it's simpler to balance overall, and simpler for the player to grasp, without the numbers. I feel like a lot of frustration could possibly arise from the player going out to collect resources, and discovering they have plenty of inventory, but not enough encumbrance capacity, and they have to go back home and offload more. Hitting your encumbrance I think could 'sneak up' on you a lot easier that maxing out inventory/container slots. The downside to a size-without-numbers system, is that it becomes harder to give much quality gradation to items - the most obvious is more slots. So if we assume a player can only carry dirt etc on the hotbar, and a wheelbarrow provides maybe 9 slots, but requires a hotbar slot and the offhand slot, then the player nets as many as 7 additional slots (7 hotbar + 9 wheelbarrow = 16, vs 9 hotbar with no wheelbarrow). An 'excellent' wheelbarrow could have more slots. If the base 9 are 3x3, then you could add another column of 3 to the right. Masterwork another column, etc. It's not as fine-grained as percent reductions, but it can provide a bonus to skill of craftsmanship, or materials. It's somewhat easier to do for hotbar-limited items - since there's so few hotbar spaces it's easier to have a container with more slots. Items that fit in inventory will require either a smaller inventory, or different strategies to provide incentive. I do have some idea, but I'm going to make a separate post just about containers for that. As a side note, I am kind of a fan of - well, at least exploring the notion of - starting the player with may just like, 9 available inventory slots, and the clothing they wear makes more available. I know this sort of thing has been done in other mods. But that too, is kind of a different topic.
  12. Encumberance

    Fourth factor is size. As in, physical dimensions. Like Stroam said, irl a fishing pole is light, but you can't even fit it in a barrel. The interesting thing is TFC1 *already* had both size(tiny, very small, small, medium, large, huge) and weight (light medium or heavy) according to the wiki. I never really noticed that before I was researching into this. Because out of all those classifications, the only mechanical effects that I ever really noticed were that some items fit in vessels/barrels and a couple items can only be carried on the back (full barrels/vessels and anvils). I don't know if the querns and beds things were just kept small for convenience, or just waiting until better systems(handcarts) were coded, which never happened for TFC1. Stroam there's good ideas there but it's a little OT compared to the OP I think. I'm going to try to stick with Konlii's original stuff. In the context of Konlii's weight system, what I'm going to say is, it's going to come down to mining. The mining system needs to use conveyances. Everything else can dance around that, but mining, being integral to tiered advancement in metals, I think can be made into a localized enough activity to not 'slow down' the entire game, but also make minecarts and other animals good and necessary. Before getting into this, I will say that I'm feeling like the 'unstackables' encumbrance still seems a bit much Konlii, unless it's not an absolute. For instance what if we don't want potions to stack, for game balance sake? This is how vanilla does it right? Despite being small, they exist only in stacks of one, I presume to keep the player from just having oceans of potions to breeze through stuff. I think that's a good mechanic, but I think it's not good to have them weigh huge amounts. And I can only imagine they would not be the only case - wands, rods, maybe even special books, all might want to be unstackable. I think it would be better if all items simply had an encumbrance assigned. But then how to limit the number of weapons, tools, and armor carried? My suggestion for limited 'major gear' carried would be - if code-possible - to make add a break-point where items can ONLY be carried on the hotbar and in special slots. This takes the entire 'inventory' out of the equation, and limits these items purely based on a limited number of slots available, but still leaves the vast player inventory for use with all the little 'collectibles'. In the context of the OP, I think tier 4 - heavyweight, would be the candidate. Now to back up a bit, the way I'm envisioning the inventory system is the hotbar, the offhand, 4 belt slots, and back slot. All visible along the bottom. offhand, back, and belt slots are essentially extensions of the hotbar that only are available for certain items (offhand) or when supplementary items are worn on them (belt and back). When you're actually in the inventory screen, there are also the vanilla four armor slots, an additional four clothing slots (maybe) and 'baubble' slots for 2 rings, necklaces, etc. That's just how I envision it, it of course may (probably) won't shake out that way. So back to tier 4 encumbrance. Armor pieces (metal armor that is) can only be carried on the hotbar, or worn in the armor slots. Not allowed in inventory. I think this accomplishes Konlii's goal of making armor a cumbersome item, without making it have to weigh insane amounts. Shields - hotbar or offhand. Two-handed weapons (as discussed elsewhere) offhand, 1 hotbar slot, and 2 sheathe slots. Empty barrels - hotbar or back. Full barrels - hotbar AND offhand (2 slots). They slow the player immensely, and the player cannot climb ladders or jump, but the player can still move up and down stairs - this is an attempt to simulate 'rolling' the barrel, without forcing Bioxx to animate that. Although I guess if the barrel were shown in front of the player horizontal, that would still be a nice accessory thing, and similar to the barrel-on-back thing. This will encourage localization of barrels, and basically allow the player to 'roll' them to a cart for further transport. Anvils could be same as full barrel, or maybe also have the option to be carried on the back alone. So that's a few examples. As many mods as i've seen that toy with inventory slots, I'd hope that limiting some items to hotbar+ slots would be code-possible. I feel this solution kind of accomplishes Konlii's goal of having certain items come 'at a premium' without having to ramp up the encumbrance levels so much. But now, where I was heading this whole time, mining. So I'm going a bit OT here, but it's in service of trying to tie this system into the world more. Basically, I'm thinking for TFC2 it'd be a good idea for ore blocks to drop themselves when mined, and then the player has to process them to get the ore out. So ore blocks themselves would then be tier 4. This allows the player to carry a certain amount of them on their hotbar. But while mining the player will certainly have other things on their hotbar, so they'll have to find a balance. But if ore block max stack were 8, then the player could carry 72 max and that would be only if they stowed their pick and other hotbar stuff. Bioxx has suggested before that TFC2 ore may be reduce per-block, but even at vanilla levels, 72 normal ore is only 18 ingots. Not a ton by any means, but still enough for a lot of tools and some armor. So maybe stack size of ore blocks is 4, or ore yield is smaller, but however that shakes out, the point is to try and make the max ore blocks carryable not all that great. Barrels are no longer an attractive long-range transport, and ore blocks can't fit in backpacks. It'd be a fine balancing act between making early-game ore processing not be too onerous, but still keeping conveyance useful in both early and later phases of the game. I think processing ore blocks to get ore will help because you can bring in tiered processing that varies the yield. Early game processing would be easily mobile, but low-yield, while late game would be very expensive and tough to move, but higher yield. So, coming full-circle, I've tried to keep to Konlii's suggestion, but I've tried to reduce the need for number in the thousands, with drastically encumbering unstackables, by introducing a mechanic of hotbar-only items. I think this would allow for a greater number of low-tier encumbrances, and reduce the need for a huge upper limit, by keeping items we want to control the numbers of limited to the hotbar, which will already have regular tools and such competing for that space.
  13. Encumberance

    It's probably useful to keep in mind that Bioxx's stated goal with even bringing weight into the game is to bring an actual need for conveyances. And due to the way minecraft stack sizes work, we can't make the player's inventory have a fraction of the stack sizes of, for instance, minecarts. Apparently the stack size limit is innate to the item, and if a container (e.g. the player's inventory) limits stack size, then *all* stacks have the same limit - they're all 'chopped down' to the same level. So if a minecart allows stacks of up to 64, but the player's inventory is limited to stack sizes of 16, then the player's inventory will limit *all* stacks to 16. So native-16 stacks will be the same, 32s will be halved, and 64s will be quartered. So it makes it hard to make minecarts superior, because in vanilla code the player's inventory allows all stacks sizes. So in a vanilla context your only solutions would be to 1) blanket-limit the player inventory - which would become inconsistent having all stacks the same limit. 2) increase the slots of minecarts to be much better than player's slots - impractical given the player inventory is already huge, or 3) increase minecart slots AND reduce player slots, to keep the number of minecart slots sane, but still superior to player slots. I would guess that at a minimum, solution 3 would require minecart slots of 36 (a 33% increase over vanilla), and player slots of half that: 18 (a 33% reduction from vanilla player inventory slots). I do now know if slot numbers higher than 36 are allowed, but if not these are inelegant solutions, and don't allow for a lot of fine gradation. Because stacks sizes are not scale-able (only chop-able) and slots can quickly get out of hand I think. So, enter a third factor to make the system more fine-tuneable. TFC1 added size to the equation, but it didn't really utilize it very well. You basically had 'items that fit in vessels', 'items that you can only carry on your back', and everything else. And it was not implemented consistently (querns and beds in vessels anyone?). But it added much-need variety to the inventory system. Now for TFC2 - as either a fourth, or replacement-third factor - arrives weight/encumbrance. I think the game *needs* a third factor *at least* if there is to be any progression at all in terms of containers, or use for more than one conveyance. Slots and stacks alone are not a finely scale-able system. I think most people were fine with the size mechanics in TFC1, and I think it was an excellent third factor. I still think it is enough, without weight being tossed into the mix. But that's for another post. So my point is, 2 factors are not enough, you should count size as a third factor already, and weight should be discussed as a fourth factor. Regarding armor speed debuffs, I'm not a big fan of speed debuffs, generally speaking, but they do have their place and I could see armor being such a place, especially in single player. But it would need to be supported - and by that I mean you would need to provide the player a way to carry their armor on their horse or cart, without using every inch of capacity (so there's room for loot), to the dungeon or whatever, and then they put it on right before going in. That or the debuffs will need to be finely tuned to be noticeable, but not onerous (30% sounds kind of onerous to me). But it would be another hook for smithing skill and magic, and maybe even different types of armor, and in that sense I support it. I don't think material type should play into it, I think material type should affect tier vs. tier damage, and maximum enchantment tier. By different types of armor, what I mean is rather than having breastplates with 1 to 3 layers, you would have chain, scale, and plate armor (for example). And those would have the differing speeds debuffs. More graphics, but also more variety.
  14. Handling your wood, Carpentry and logging.

    Tree Felling - like it. You're saying the existing living tree logs turn into rubble in place? not only trunk, but also the branches up in the air? So the player has to be careful where they stand lest they be hit with falling tree rubble? Skill level - Not sure adding skill level into the time-to-mine equation is a good idea. It's already a small enough difference just using metal tiers. I don't like the idea of tool racks being tier 2. Not sure about ladders either, but that might depend on how ores and mining shake out. Doors and gates as tier 3 might be excessive. Is it assumed then that the player will just have to use ladders or palisades with jump-gaps, or dirt blocks, until then? In that context one of the best loot items from early game dungeons will be doors (unless they don't have them). Making wooden buckets masterful might be a bit of a stretch. How about clay buckets randomly break, wood buckets have durability (they rot), and metal buckets last forever (or have higher durability, at least)? From a game balance perspective I'm not clear what the advantage of wood barrels is that makes them advanced tier, aside from a presumably slightly larger inventory. Log Refining - an interesting system, but what can one do with timber aside from making sawhorses? Is it purely just a limited-use intermediate step? Can one make ladders or fences with it? Moisture - though it appeals to my detailed side, seems like a bit too much probably. Coopering - That's a lot of steps. As mentioned above, what advantages are you envisioning for barrels, vs large vessels? In TFC1 is was 33% more inventory, or double the liquid capacity. I do like the idea of barrels being harder to come by, just not sure THAT much harder... So in general, skill benefits the player in terms of getting higher lumber yield? It doesn't affect finished product? Also tree felling speed as suggested, but I'm not sure that's a good idea, unless felling times go up quite a bit. Overall I like giving a greater sense of accomplishment and process. I do think it would result in some of these items becoming important dungeon loot, although they'd probably be very heavy, so not very lootable. I could easily forsee the basic result being that the player just moves into dungeons for the early game, for easy access to doors and chests. Unless dungeons have special rules where mobs will spawn in them no matter light level or player time spent. Or early game dungeons don't have doors and chests. But that's getting OT. Personally I'd like to see more item-level benefits to the skill, so it's not all so predicated on time and output. I've been mulling a lot of container ideas so maybe I'll make a post on that.
  15. [0.2.1] TFC2 Prerelease

    You dig a 2-deep pit. Place the jug in the bottom (no shifting required). Unlike TFC1, now only 1 item fits in a pit at a time. now right click four grass (not shift-place), which will fill up the bottom cube. Now make a firestarter, and right click on the grass till it lights. Unlike TFC1, you now only get a few campfire-like flames, not a roaring inferno. Once the fire is started, place a log on top (not shift-place). Just one log, placed as normal. Not 8 like TFC1 (so the log cost has went down from 2 per item, to 1 per item). The top of the log should be flush with the top of the ground, and you should see smoke coming off it. now place a dirt block on top of the log. You should see smoke coming off the dirt block. Now wait 8 hours. When it's done, the grass is replaced by charcoal, and the log disappears, so the dirt will fall down flush with the ground. If you're not there when it happens, and come back later, the dirt can grow grass on top, and so appear as if everything vanished (so you may actually want to make the pit one deep, and build the next level above ground, so it's easier to tell where it is if you lose track). Dig up the dirt block, dig up the charcoal, and the fired jug will be at the bottom. You can break it or right click with an empty hand to get it. And btw, you can actually place the jug on level ground, and place the straw cube on top, exposed. But near as I can tell it won't light without having suitable walls around it, and 1 level above it (logs are not suitable, for instance). On the topic of tree-elks, they are majestic except they sound like bear, and man, when they drop down on you from a tree you just cut, that is exciting! Also they will 1-hit kill you. So enjoy their majesty from afar, or at least don't antagonize them.