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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."


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About Darmo

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  1. Is there still development?

    Original TFC (v1.7.10) is dead. Bioxx had started to develop TFC2, but that is in limbo now, and also it's rather different from original TFC. Some community members have taken it upon themselves to make a 1.12+ version of TFC, but that is in a very early stage.
  2. Food decay & preservation

    Yes that's correct, in one of the final versions there was a config. And yes, of course they die in cold weather. There was a pretty significant swath of the world though, which never froze, and was easy street as far as food goes. In practice I think servers is where you *want* immortal crops, due to time passing while players are absent. So they were the least forgiving. But there's other options. You could have crops simply start over again when they reach a certain age. That would make them a little less reliable in mild climates, as far as an easy-mode ready to go food source.
  3. Simple "playability" changes.

    Well, a true feast or famine is like rock salt or flux stone. You have 0, or you have an infinite amount. So it goes from being that valuable commodity you want very badly, to being an infinite commodity that is essentially value-less. This is bad for the game regardless (imagine if you could find entire biomes of copper or iron). The clay situation in 1.7.10 isn't truly that, it's just a resource similar to others - present some places, not in others - but the immediate starting need means it shouldn't be entirely missing in large areas, except maybe deserts. Even a newb could pretty easily logically come to the conclusion that deserts don't have clay, and decide to either accept the challenge, or roll a new world. It is nice to know there'll be some 'out of the box' server options built in this time. Please build in some kind of merchant support!
  4. Food decay & preservation

    Ya, that was actually another discord topic. Bunsan Had a question on peoples' thoughts on the temperature gradient and in the course of that it turned to how it affects preservation. I am of the opinion that being able to infinitely preserve food simply by storing your food in an environmentally cold area makes other preservation methods less useful, and so hurts the potential preservation tech tree, and that I'd rather see ambient temperature not affect it at all. Counterpoint was that on servers it's good to have a no-maintenance permanent preservation, due to possible extremely long times passing while player is offline, and that's a good point. Eventually I suggested something like what you propose gcook. Basically that items stored at freezing temps eventually become "frozen", and in that state they cannot be eaten, and the stack can neither be combined nor divided. In order to use the food the player must defrost it, which takes an amount of time commesurate with the stack size. So the player now has a choice of whether to store efficient giant stacks of food that take forever to defrost, or many small stacks that they can defrost and use quicker, but that take a lot of storage space. If you've ever tried to defrost a big turkey or ham, you know it takes days. I'd suggest a stack of 64, for instance, take 4 or 5 days (2 hours per unit?). This allows the player to still have simple infinite cold storage, but requires better planning to use it. I further suggested that every time you thaw a stack, some portion of it is lost to 'freezer burn', as a deterrent to repetitive freezing and thawing. The minimum loss is 1 piece, so the smaller the stack thawed, the greater the percentage lost, which plays into the choice of freezing in large slow-thawing stacks, or small fast-thawing but high percent loss stacks. To go with this, you'd have a 'chilled' tag or something, and this would get applied when the player uses 'constructed' cold storage that is part of the game progression - for instance ice boxes or ice houses or refrigerators, etc. chilled items would be useable immediately, rather than having to be defrosted. Items that are neither chilled nor frozen simply don't have a tag. Immortal crops are the other big killer of preservation use, but that's a separate topic, and more easily addressed I think.
  5. Food decay & preservation

    There was some interesting discussion regarding food decay yesterday on the discord, so I wanted to kind of compile some of it in this post so it doesn't get lost to discord history. It's been stated that TFC1.12 won't have the original tfc food quantities - it'll just use stacks of pieces as regular MC. Hence, there will also be no trimming. I don't think anyone will be sad to see trimming go. Basically 3 options are presented: The most obvious perhaps, would be ARK-style, where the top piece of a stack is always decaying on a timer. So if the normal decay time for vegetables is 5 minutes, after 5 minutes the top piece of the stack is removed. A visual changing of the background of the food icon indicates the time until next decay. This is what TFC2 was going for in the last iteration, and it's a pretty well known system I think. @Bunsan presented another option: "The thing to remember is that in 1.7.10 it did not care how old the food was, it just cared how long since last trim and how much decay is present. So that is effectively the same as having each item have a set chance to decay and then have it roll to decay every X number of ticks. Whether it just goes poof or turns into a decay item doesn't matter." So basically that seemed to be suggesting that every piece of food in the inventory has a chance to decay every tick. Which has the same statistical result as Ark style probably, in that statistically, per time period, you'll lose just 1 piece. Sometimes maybe a bit more, sometimes less. But statistically same result. There's no icon background timer in this method, so on the one hand you aren't constantly nagging at the back of the player's mind with a visual reminder as each piece of food disappears. But at the same time, it's a somewhat less predictable system. Some people may actually appreciate the defined rate of decay in ARK style. @TonyLiberatto presented another idea. As I understand it, his idea is that when you harvest or create food, it is marked with an 'expiration date', which presumably will show in the tooltip. Expiration dates are only to the day, not the hour. So a carrot harvested at 1am of a given day will have the same expiration date as one harvested at 11pm. Stacks of the same item with different expiration dates would not automatically stack. When the stack reaches the expiration date, the entire stack vanishes or turns to rot or whatever. SO in this system there is no constant drip of food disappearing. You have it all available until the expiration date, and then it's all gone. This is arguably a bit more realistic in that for most food, it does not immediately start having parts go bad. I don't know if maybe it has some processor overhead advantage, in that you'd only check the food once a day, at a certain time, rather than having to check every X ticks? The more I think on it, the more I like Tony's system, and I wanted to expand upon it a bit. I think you could still allow manual combining of stacks to avoid too much clutter, but perhaps just inherit the lower expiration, to avoid hijinks with averaging. This way the player can choose between less space used, and keeping a higher expiration date on some. This also opens up a possible avenue for containers that are food-specialized, having many slots but only for food (in some cases maybe just certain kinds). These containers allow the player to store many stacks of food with different expirations. I also think this system might discourage people like me, from leaving crops in the ground forever in non-freezing climates and harvesting them when needed (though hopefully that won't be a thing anyway) since that would probably result in either more clutter or more wastage, vs. harvesting large amounts at once and properly preserving. Another possibility I think expiration dates would open up, is for there to be food poisoning effects. So your food is safe for some percentage of it's life - maybe the first 50 to 75% - but thereafter the background color changes (maybe to orange) and you get an increasing chance that if you eat this food, you'll get food poisoned or catch a disease or something. Preserving the food might nullify that chance (the background is normal all the way to expiration) or it might delay it (only turns orange at 90% of expiration, and also the chance does not get as high due to reduce poison window). You could even do a sort of hybrid system. Maybe the food doesn't decay for the first 40% of it's expiration date, but upon reaching 40% it gets orange background and starts to decay ark style or random style or whatever, but still no poison chance. But at 70% of expiration it turns red, and now it is not only decaying, but you also have the poisoning chance. So there the player gets a window with no decay, but then there's a significant window with decay, and at the tail end poisoning. So ya, in the end I rather like Tony's system and think it presents some good hooks for other mechanics.
  6. Simple "playability" changes.

    Oh I agree about the exploration and the search, but I'd suggest that the resources that you need basically day 1 are not great candidates for complete exclusion from entire biomes. I think upper tier ores and such are much better for that. Reducing dry biomes is a possible way to address the clay factor for sure, though I'm also kind of hoping deserts are more common and extensive. Is it possible to prevent the player from spawning in dry biomes? If selected spawn rainfall is below X, select a new spawn? Difficulty levels where the player can choose to start in a harder starting biome if they want? Or at least a popup if the player starts in a dry spawn, that explains to them that they won't find clay in the biome?
  7. Submit Questions for FAQ

    - Will there be mining collapse? If so, will it be fixed so that natural caves don't collapse? This really killed the fun of caving in TFC1. Also, will the collapse mechanic be simplified so that collapses that start outside the supported area don't propagate into a supported area? This function frustrated and confused many people, and I know that there are people who specifically dropped the mod because of it. - Will clay be fixed so that at least some occurs in dry biomes, so that you don't end up with newbs confused why they're not finding clay in their spawn area? @Bunsan Hopefully these do not come across as 'suggestive' FAQ questions. I do think it's very relevant to a great many people, who may have dropped the mod because of some of the very poor design choices in TFC1 (feast/famine resources) but also some who just have preference differences (collapse mechanics). I do understand if you delete my response to Dries re: flux.
  8. Simple "playability" changes.

    The old clay situation makes for a poor gameplay experience for new players. I watched a great many lps of people who started in dry biomes, and they're hunting around for clay, not understanding why they can't find it. These kind of feast/famine mechanics are just bad game design - it's the kind of thing that turns new players off. Mia's idea of having limited clay deposits even in dry biomes is a good one, and I would definitely vote for it.
  9. Does this forum have to be dead? Basically dunk is taking 1.7.10 TFC and making some relatively minor changes. The upside is it's playable now I think, since the changes are minor. However in the long run, if the 1.12 port succeeds, I think TFC+ will end up obsolete.
  10. Submit Questions for FAQ

    The simple way to fix flux would be to have borax appear anywhere. You could also have potash (as a very inferior/time consuming flux perhaps, since it'd be relatively easy to get).
  11. Submit Questions for FAQ

    A couple questions regarding fixing of TFC1 mechanics, will flux perhaps have several sources, or otherwise be modified so that it's not a feast-or-famine situation? It really does not benefit the mod to have the player have either 0 flux, or more flux than they will ever need, with nothing in between. Also, will alloying be fixed in a way such that if you're for example mixing copper and cassiterite, and you add some already-made tin-bronze ingots, you don't ruin that batch? Incompatibility between a mixture of ingredients and already made ingots of the same material was one of the worst things in TFC1, especially when it happened for colored steels.
  12. TFC1 1.12+ port

    @Dries007 How about mobs? A team of us made quite a few for TFC2, but I'd imagine those models can be just as easily used in this project. Though I like TFC2 worldgen much more than original (any plans to change that at all?) and still wish it was an active project, I'd rather see those models used somewhere than not at all. I always felt that a stumbling block was the animation. Bioxx put together MCMC which made it easy for us to make the models, but it was still up to him to animate them, and so I think that naturally always played second fiddle to the more 'core' aspects. As I understand it animation consists simply of applying a rotation range, and timeframe in the form of a cosign or something, to a part. Is there any chance at all that that could be added to MCMC at some point? This would allow non-coders like myself to figure out the correct numbers to use to look good, and probably save coders a lot of trial and error.
  13. When can we play tfc2?

    When minecraft finally updates to 1.13, we'll find out. The 1.13 update changes huge amounts of code, so it's not unreasonable to think that Bioxx would go on hiatus until it is finalized, rather than do a ton of work that he'd have to do over when 1.13 dropped.
  14. TFC2 Food and Other Stuff

    As i recall (don't have time to search for the old threads) Bioxx was not committing to the final food situation. He said Pam's saves him a ton of work for now, but later *maybe* the situation changes. As for features, I don't know why it wouldn't. TFC1 didn't really have all THAT many features.
  15. TFC1 1.12+ port

    I think that's a very good choice. It did seem to cause a lot of problems with mod compatibility, for not much gain vs a decaying stack.