dabman10

I'm a little confused about what's been said on a few videos and guides about smelting. I was given the impression that there were a few options to creating higher-tier metal items if you couldn't find cassiterite, like rose gold, black bronze, or bismuth bronze. However, from all of my attempts, it seems like every metal past copper requires a bronze anvil, which means tin. Bismuth bronze requires tin all the same. I've also heard that it's possible to go straight to copper without having to use a tier 1 metal, such as bismuth. My friend and I tried countless times trying to smelt copper in a firepit, using every high-temperature type of wood and a bellows. Nothing worked, as the copper was only able to get to Orange****. Any tips here? It says in the wiki itself that you can. I'm also wondering why brass isn't a workable metal when zinc and bismuth - definitely not pure metals you could realistically make any useful tool out of - are. Brass is stronger than copper is, and I think it would make a good top tier metal if one cannot find cassiterite. Brass has been used for ages, even before bronze I believe, and there was some use for weapons/tools for Egyptians and Romans, and possibly Chinese.

I've created this post to recognize the fact that in vanilla minecraft AND tfc, there is an inherent design to the game that makes it nearly impossible to learn how to play without help or seeking outside knowledge (such as a wiki). In game design, this is generally regarded as being a negative aspect. However, providing direct instruction is also frowned upon as well (e.g. HINT: "Place three sticks on the ground and right click with a firestarter to make a fire!!!!" Achievement: You made a fire!) So this thread is a place for suggestions on how to make Terrafirmacraft more intuitive and possible to learn without sacrificing complexity. 1. More Solutions or Indicators to show Success in Knapping The greatest barrier to the game right now is that no one could ever expect to know how to make an axe, shovel, hoe, knife or hammer, because there are over 50,000 knapping combinations and only 5 correct solutions. Compare this to blacksmithing, where you get an actual indication that you're making progress to completing an item. Therefore, knapping needs to somehow show you're progressing towards actually creating something. Partial/Crude stone heads. One idea would be that if your knapped item is very similar to the correct plan, you would still be able to create the stonehead, but it would be crude or already damaged. This would be similar to how creating a metal item without having the green and red arrows lined up leave it slightly damaged. So, take for example this simulation of successfully completing a stone axe: Sound effects are always a great well to indicate progression. A rock-breaking sound could be played every time you break one piece of rock in the knapping screen. Any time you break a square in the grid that will progress to an actual item, the rock-breaking sound could go up in pitch. Any time you break a square in the grid that is less like an actual item, a sound would go lower in pitch, or indicate to the player that click was a poor choice. Here's another example showing the contrast of unsuccessfully completing an item: 2. More intuitive ways to make a firepitMaking your first firepit is a necessity, and yet it requires a very precise way of doing it that makes it incredibly difficult to ever discover on your own. What could make firebuilding more intuitive? Well, right-clicking places sticks on the ground similar to stacking logs would be a start. If it requires a number of sticks to make a fire, why not make a sound effect that plays for each stick you place which increases in pitch until you have the correct number of sticks? Anything that can indicate to the player they are on the right track is a good idea. It's also difficult to realize that a firestarter is actually working. A sound effect is also needed here. Currently, even if you do figure out how to use a firestarter, there is no indication from the game that you are doing it correctly! If I've already right clicked sticks 3-4 times, why would I continue trying when it seems like nothing is happening? Again, something must indicate to the player that their actions are leading to the right direction, and that they should keep trying what they are doing. TFC did a great job giving sticks for punching leaves, since it's actually more intuitive than making sticks from wood. What if a player placed logs or planks on the ground, and thought a firestarter could light them? It seems logical they could be lit on fire, so how can the game hint to the player that they're on the right track, but should use sticks instead? Again, sound effects could indicate that logs and planks might be burnable, but too difficult to light with simply a firestarter.

I'm a teacher by trade, and I really enjoy this game. I've taught 10 players over skype how to knap, forge, and have encountered the same issues with players nearly every time. Tell me, how does this add an extra layer of confusion? How does this differ to a lot of new mechanics implemented in the game, such as the green/red progress bar in the forge gui, prospecting devices that give you hints about the general locations of ores, or a charcoal pit lighting on fire as an indication it is burning? All of these mechanics are ways of giving information to the player that they are doing something right.

An extra layer of confusion? Then I didn't properly explain to your what conveyance really means, and why it's important in games. If I did, you definitely would be agreeing with me at least in principle. Heck, why even have a gui screen for knapping at all? Why not make it invisible, I mean as long as the wiki page tells you which portion of the screen to click on, you'll be able to memorize it and you'll have no problem at all! I'm very aware there is are strong sentiments among fans of minecraft about conveyance. The minecraft fan base generally attracts people who enjoy reading and searching for solutions online when they are having issues, and I'm very much the same way. I knew I would get some resistance here when I started talking about this. But the biggest criticisms about minecraft from reviewers is its poor conveyance of how to play. At any rate, I'm going to have to revise this post because I'm pretty sure I am not stating the message properly. I've already started by posted youtube animation examples of how sound effects and partially-completed stoneheads would improve the knapping game element. Links below if you don't care to scroll up: Edit: Hah, now I know why people are coming to this thread with a closed mind. I made pretty much the worst title ever.

From the last few responses, it is clear I have not properly described what I am intending to say. I never said anything about holding your hand to learn how to play in my post. In fact, I made it clear that this is a bad idea for game design. EternalUndeath, did you read anything I said at all? Did you watch the video I posted that actually made fun of games that use strategies like this to teach you how to play? I expected more from your reply because I've seen lots of great posts from you in other threads. Bad game design is creating a game that makes it nearly impossible to learn how to play unless you're getting help outside a game. However, bad game design is also directly teaching to player how to play the game.I enjoy playing TFC because it is complex and it's difficult even struggling to survive. But there are parts of TFC that are do not do a good job conveying to the player how it should be done, and this thread is for suggestions on how to improve that. Complexity and Conveyance/intuitive design are compatible.

Axis: That is an amazing picture you have created. There are certainly hurdles to developing a learning-based approached to knapping, as it shows, but there are possibilities. Salvatos: Sure, that is fine. but I will reiterate my point that game design principles (the principles you would learn about if you decided to pay for an education in game design) say that the better the game is at intuitively teaching the player how to play, the more enjoyable experience the game will be. I don't mean that the game should directly teach you how to play it, but that there is intuitive logic to how things are done, and there are ways to figure out how to get there even if you don't get it at first. Here's an example of commentary about intuitive game design that helps elaborate my point: EstebanL You completely misunderstood my post. I know you aren't going to forget how to make a firepit once you learn how to do it. The problem is learning how to do it in the first time is currently a highly-difficult endeavor that requires luck, knowledge from friends, or an outside source of knowledge. Relying on this is not good game design.

Interesting discussions so far, especially on security/protection. I'll offer my own ideas. Crime is a rich gameplay feature that can be unreliably handled when the reins are given to actual players. It's not realism that matters here, it is the idea that what has been gained needs to be protected. This adds value and excitement to the game. One way to implement crime reliably would be to simulate it. This makes crime more specific, predictable, and preventable. Ideas would include: Thieving. Specific rules could ensure that x number of items are stolen based on x conditions. This gives players knowledge about how to prevent this or expect what could happen. A physical mob that tries to break in a house to steal an item would be an example. You learn what methods and rules it follows, and then you find highly-effective ways that stop it from happening. Vandalism. Simulating this means there is no unnecessary grief caused by cruel players seeking entertainment. A door could be broken, a window could be shattered, a building could be lit on fire. All of these would be conditions a player would could control, and would feel responsibility for if not controlled properly. Piracy/Brigandism. Again, rules and conditions would allow players to know and feel more comfortable in dealing with chaos around them. It is absolutely critical that there are reasons for players to cooperate and build a society. Much has already been mentioned about resource distribution that would help require cooperation. It's also important to give beneficial advantages of cooperating on the local scale. I'll give a couple examples currently in the game that demonstrate the idea of collective benefits, then discuss new possibilities:Minecart systems. I think most people know how useless it is to build minecart rail for your individual mining operation. Why? Well, it's quite unbalanced for one reason, since a minecart should be able to transport far more goods than you can actually carry yourself. But it's also unpractical because you are the only one using it. When several people cooperate, the cost of a rail system is much lower per person, so it incentivizes one to cooperate. Highly technical skills. I think everyone agrees that some of the gameplay features are incredibly complicated and difficult to master. I've played numerous team vs team games where one had to ensure there was a good blacksmith and competent fighter on the same team. There is a dilemma with TFC however, and that is, how technical should the game be? I am aware of the rejection of level-based skills, and so I believe this means the most efficient methods to make food, craft items, gather resources, and fight should all be difficult skills to learn. The more things one has to do, and the larger the learning curve each special type of task becomes, the more it necessitates cooperation with other players. New items that provide a collective benefit. Going along the similar vein as transit systems, there should be other craft-able items that are very difficult and/or expensive to make, and provides an advantage that does not lose much value if it is shared with others. Bell Tower: The bell tower would function as a warning system. I have several ideas about its potential uses. If any blocks (ie. buildings) within proximity of the bell are damaged or altered based on conditions (player name, player owner, town resident, etc.), it would produce an alarm. This alarm could create a number of effects. Another idea is that the bell would alarm for other conditions (monster within proximity, number of fire blocks in vicinity is increasing, etc.)Minions: These could serve a variety of roles, from guarding a certain area, repairing damage to altered blocks, putting out fires, etc. These roles are not needed on a constant basis, so sharing them is highly advantageous if it's expensive or difficult to acquire them.Machines and other infrastructure. It may be enormously time-consuming to build a millstone and set-up a mill for it to actually function, but once done an entire town could benefit. This is true for anvils as well. Items that are rarely used, hard to acquire, but essential will help make sure players will cooperate and build societies. Disasters that require cooperation. Invasions, drought, storms, you name it. Disasters are good reasons for players to work together.

Update: Tomorrow our goal is to have a true 5vs5 CTF game. We had 18 different people on today, but due to organizational issues, none of us were on at the same time to have a large game! At any rate, we had an awesome time playing survival, getting attacked by pvpers, and then building a settlement on a floating island that slowly crumbled apart as we constructed our buildings. If you want to be part of a large CTF game, please be on around 8-10am PST tomorrow so we can start the match (3-5pm GMT).

TFC Team Capture The Flag[10vs10 max] Mods Required: Forge, TFC, API (everything you need for regular TFC) Mods Optional: REI's minimap, SmartMoving Optional Software: Skype (highly recommended, even if you don't use a microphone) Server IP: 67.183.86.181:25565 My Skype Name: dabman10 If you want to be part of a large CTF game, please be on around 8-10am PST tomorrow (Wednesday, August 8) so we can start the match (3-5pm GMT). What is TFC Team Capture the Flag? TFC Team Capture the flag (a.k.a Age of Survival) is an organized capture the flag game played using Terrafirmacraft. 8-20 players are divided into 2 teams. Teams spawn in identically mirrored maps, and must gather resources and reinforce their base. Separating the two team's map is a large dungeon filled with ore, items, and monsters. The objective for each team is to arm themselves, dig through the center dungeons, and open up entrances to the opposing team's map. Once opened, the first team to capture the opposition's flag and place it in their base are victorious. How do I know if a game is starting? The best way to know if we are playing a game would be to join skype and add me as a contact. I will add you to the server channel so you'll be able to hear if a game is being planned, if people want to play, or when a new game will happen. If you absolutely do not want to use skype, keep an eye out on TFC IRC (#TFCraft), the shout bar on the forums, or this post for an idea about when the next match will be happening. As a last resort, you can join my server and see if anything is going on. Games usually start around 4-5PM GMT, which is 8-9AM PST (my timezone). I want to play, or I'm about to play, but don't know what to do! Help! <-- A Detailed guide about gameplay When you join the server, it's important to be patient. Sometimes it takes 15 minutes to get teams set up and the map reset. We have no access to bukkit plugins which means a lot of things must be done manually, which take time. First things first, choose which team you want to be on (Red or Blue). Jump on one of the wool blocks and wait. The less chaos during this time, the better. Soon, team op's will start teleporting their teammates to their spawn rooms. I apologize for all the hideous bedrock, it's the only way we can make sure cheating is not taking place. Once you have been teleported to your team's spawn room, sleep in the bed to reset your spawn. If you don't do this, you will not be able to play if you die! Stay in this room until a team op has given a countdown for the game to start. When the countdown begins, you will run through the small corridor, jump down into the water, jump off the ledge and into your team's side of the map. Congratulations, you are now on your team's map! Looking around, you'll notice several things. Along the bedrock wall will be 2 dungeon entrances, which look like this: The stone block dungeon has 2 critical features to know about: a chest that is very easily accessible which gives you unshaped copper and bismuth ingots, and a staircase down to a sewer that has a chest that gives you stone picks, swords, and propicks. Up the stairs you will find ore mining areas (all of them are labeled, they are cassiterite, copper, and hematite). Further along upstairs is a collapsed shaft that when mined will eventually lead you to the enemy's base. The green schist dungeon is much trickier to navigate. You will need a pick to access the first chest, which will be directly above you in the first room you mine into. In this chest you will find additional unshaped bismuth and copper ingots. Inside this dungeon includes ores such as copper, cassiterite, limonite, gold, and silver. You also mine through this dungeon to access the enemy base. Looking in toward your team's map you will find a pathway and a mine: It should be easy to see the mine will provide your team borax and coal. The pathway winds up a large mountain that is your base. Around these lowlands you will find water with squid, sugarcane, wheat, chickens, and cows. It will be critical to utilize these resources for your team early on. Continuing up the stairs will bring you to your base: Here you can see a bridge and a steep, winding staircase goes up to a walled mountaintop. Reshaping the mountain will dramatically help bolster the defense of your simple base and make it more difficult for your enemy to assault your flag. Now we look directly into your base. You can see the blue flag (wool) on the top of a small fort, as well as several other items. This image shows all of the starting materials your team gets to begin the game. It is a rather large set of items, so let me explain the important of each one: 1. The oven and adjacent chest.This will help your teams immediately access a charcoal supply. In the chest you will find some vanillaMC coal and wood. Use the coal and wood in the oven to create charcoal, which you can use for tfc blacksmithing. 2. The chest and anvil.The copper anvil will allow your team to quickly start forging useful items. In the chest is also a couple ingots ready to be forged, so it will be important to get a fire started immediately to help your team get equipped. 3. The chest and your flag Inside the chest next to your flag is 32 additional stone bricks and 2 tnt. The tnt can be used to help make traps or clear stone. The bricks will be important to create an initial defense against the enemy. Note that these are vanilla bricks, and you will not be able to use them to make a bloomery. This covers the initial basics of the game. I hope this makes you feel more prepared to play! Even if you are not very good at blacksmithing, you could make a valuable member of your team as a gatherer, scout, or fighter. What does the game look like? (Screenshots) After a particularly fun match, I usually take a screenshot of all the remaining players. http://i.imgur.com/4zDoN.jpg http://i.imgur.com/xUIJE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/K1Lyp.jpg http://i.imgur.com/VLKe6.jpg This looks fun, can I host a server or can you give me the map? Absolutely! Message me on here and I would be happy to email you the map or send it to you on skype. Due to several requests, the download is available here: http://www.mediafire...9j1mldlal293as6 If you've read through all of that, then that's it! Please join us so we can have a larger more epic battle! If you have already played the game, please talk about what it was like, help answer questions, or give suggestions on how to make the game better.

We had an awesome game today, even though it was a 3vs3. Early on, my team's anvil got blown up by a creeper, so we decided to rush the enemy team. We blocked the entrance to their dungeon, and hid a few items that we got from killing one of their players. Unfortunately, we started getting attacked, one of our players (the one who hosted our skype channel) lost connection, so our communications broke down and we were all killed. Without the ability to forge, we gathered as much leather and javelins as we could, stormed their base, got some metal equipment from a couple kills, and were starting to assault their base. Unbeknownst to us, one of their players (Danzarlo) was in our base stealing our flag, ran around us, and captured our flag! Here's the winning screenshot: For those of you wanting to check out the map, the download link is here: http://www.mediafire...9j1mldlal293as6

We played 2 3vs3 matches today, one on a new map that we created. Pretty fun matches today, I hope we can get a larger one going tomorrow! Be on tomorrow (4-9pm GMT) to get in the game! As always, add me on skype (user is the same as my name here). Danzarlo said he recorded a match, so hopefully we'll get the link up soon.

New Plant (or just the default grass patch): Wild Wheat 1. When "Wild Wheat" is harvested off of grass, it could drop: -1 "Wild Wheat Seed" (1 in 5 chance) -1 wheat (1 in 20 chance) 2. These wild wheat Seeds can be planted and grown on grass or dirt year-round, eventually maturing into their regular form. -Wild wheat matures on un-plowed dirt or grass at 50% the speed of regular farming. 3. If planted on plowed dirt, wild wheat Seeds will grow at the normal rate (like it is now). 4. When harvested from plowed dirt, wild wheat could drop: -1 wheat (1 in 4 chance) -0-2 wild wheat seeds -1 "wheat seed" (1 in 10 chance) 5. Wheat seeds represent a mutation in the plant that allows it to grow more productively. -Wheat seeds can only be planted on plowed dirt (dry or wet) -They do not grow during the winter. -They grow 25% faster than wild wheat during the spring and summer. 6. When harvested, wheat will yield: -0-2 wheat -0-2 wheat seeds -1 "heirloom wheat" seed (1 in 20 chance) 7. Heirloom wheat is an even more productive variety, but has some disadvantages: -Heirloom wheat seeds can only be planted on wet, plowed dirt -Heirloom wheat grows 50% faster than wild wheat during the spring and summer, but dies during the winter if it is not harvested -It can only be grown in the sun 8. When harvested, heirloom wheat will yield: -1-3 wheat -0-2 heirloom wheat seeds -1 "wheat seed" (1 in 10 chance) This very basic principle could be applied to other plants and animals as well.

refer to the new post of this idea, this is an old thread: http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/860-wheat-domestication-flow-chart/page__hl__%2Bflow+%2Bchart__fromsearch__1

A couple attempts have been made to make a video, but I don't think we ever got a good one made. I'll be hosting games this week starting 9am PST (12pm EST, 5pm GMT). Please be on tomorrow; we may need to wait a couple hours to get enough for a 3vs3 or 4vs4. Server IP: 67.183.86.181:25565 Our goal will be to get a 5vs5 by the end of the week. I probably won't be using the advanced scoring rules; the simpler the better. Flag captured = win!

Also, forgot to mention that I increased the difficulty to normal to help encourage more armor-production.

I have indicated the borders of the map by turning a chunk wall into air. You are welcome to build across the wall, but these areas will periodically be wiped whenever major updates occur. The main world will be much more long-term, and I will give plenty of warning if I decide to wipe it (usually I will only wipe one direction at a time, so if there is a major update, I'll wipe the north section 1 week, the east section the 2nd week, etc.)

Does it need to be historical in order for it to be considered usable for weapons? Bismuth and zinc certainly weren't used for making weapons. Brass is a copper alloy, and stronger than copper alone. I see it being a good short-tier alloy for making metal tools slightly better than copper. After tin is found and the iron age is reached, brass would be a good replacement for making cheap metal items.

Too bad about the bugged forge/metalworking. 67.183.86.181:25565 is an alternate server, just so everyone's aware. I currently have it up, and it will be up quite often so don't feel worried about not being able to access it.

This may take a lot of processing power to calculate.

Awesome

I've had an idea running through my mind that probably came from playing on Minecraft DvZ, pvp, and Survival Game servers. Merging tournament and team-fighting concepts with TFCraft would make for something amazing. Imagine two teams, desperately trying to mine, farm, and advance in metallurgy in preparation for an onslaught where only one group can survive. Which team can make the most strategic choices based on their successes or follies at finding ores? Will one team manage to smith copper blades and mail, while their enemies come down upon them with stone axes and leather armor? It would almost be like a first person mass multiplayer .Below are the basics about the mechanics of this game concept. Please read through, think, and respond with your own ideas If you're interested trying this idea out, I'll put your name in this post and we'll try a test run this weekend! UPDATE: Matches are successful! The largest game we have had so far is a 4vs4. We are working to build more types of maps, and your best chance to contact us is to pm me, Incompatibility, or to join skype (add me, my id is dabman10). Make sure you have Mumble (link) or Skype if you want to use teamspeak. Currently the server just requires you to have Minecraft, modloader, forge, and TFC installed (the minimum requirements). PM me to get added to the list! Teams Information: 1. 8 players on each team, 2 teams total. 2. 1 referee (on creative mode) managing the game 3. All players start without any items Map Layout: 1. In the center of the map is a building with 2 small, separated rooms, each room with one entrance out. 2. The entrances face opposite directions from each other. 3. Teams start in each room with the door locked. The entire chunk the building is on is 'protected' by the referee and blocks cannot be destroyed. 4. Example: __________O________ __________O________ OOOOOOOOOOOOO O________O________O O________O________O _________O_________ O________O________O O________O________O OOOOOOOOOOOOO __________O________ __________O________ 5. Approximately 200 meters out will be the initial starting ores for each team to acquire. This mining location will be marked by a sign and a torch. Under 4 blocks of dirt will be 12 bismuth ore blocks. 16 blocks further down will be 32 copper ore blocks. 20 blocks further down will be 32 tin ore blocks. Finally, 30 blocks down will be 32 iron ore blocks, 16 copper ore blocks, and 16 tin ore blocks. Screenshots Gameplay Information (3v3 or 4v4): 1. When the round begins, the referee opens the doors and the players run out. The referee starts a timer. 2. Each team is required to run out and start a base on their side of the map (divided by the starting building, and lines further out) for a period of time. 3. During this period, each team frantically works on acquiring tools, setting up a base, farms, forges, etc. 4. If any players die during the first 30 minutes, they respawn in their team's starting room. 5. After 30 minutes have elapsed, iron doors with pressure plates on the outside are installed on both team's starting rooms. Team mates will need to run back and let dead members out. 6. Afer the safe time period has elapsed (about an hour, depends on # of players), teams are now free to move on the opposing team's territory. 7. The object of the game is to survive by eliminating the other team so that no players are left outside of their starting room. Misc. Rules: 1. Beds would not be allowed (spawns must always be in the team's starting room). 2. Some strategies might focus on hiding, making the game quite boring. Hopefully the fact that bloomeries are pretty ineffective underground, and forges must have a hole open to the outside, will make it obvious enough where a team's base is. Another means of circumventing this would have another optional victory condition, say destroying an obsidian block in the center of the map (only destroyable by steel++). 3. The main objective is to capture the enemy's flag. 4. Any obvious advantages (visible ores, massive amount of cows, glaringly advantageous land/water features, etc. need to be rebalanced before the game starts. Prior to the start of the game, the referee needs to make sure that both teams have A) An abundance of trees B ) A source of water and tall grass C) An abundance of cows D) A source of stone for a tier 0 anvil E) A source for flux 5. Games could also be entirely open-ended, or be arena-style. Users expressing interest in test-running this concept: daxx367 squidattack VasyaTheCrafter lassesp2142 Sirbrandino Incompatibility bugonstick YakkroProfaith YawoozaUpdated: Added Pictures

All of the suggestions about the requirements of ingots seem way too impractical. Remember that the reason to build railways would be to make transporting goods far more convenient. Why would this system be practical if you have to waste 50+ iron ingots into it?

I can see this using a similar calculation that the prospector's pick takes advantage of. Perhaps it could be something that is only calculated a few times a day, since I could see it being a pretty intensive thing to do. Perhaps if water has a location that it can travel to within x number of blocks that is further down in elevation, it will move to it. The more vertical the angle is between the water and the block below it, the more likely it will move down. Another option would be to increase the "drip effect" distance from one block to 3-4 blocks, and have it able to drip horizontally as well. If the block face continues to drip for x number of ticks, a finite amount of water will become displaced from the source block.

I had the same problem, use the jar instead.