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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
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Guest sa13103

Surveyors, and other things

24 posts in this topic

so, i had a really great burst of thoughts the other night on the server i have been playing on. i have no clue if it has been mentioned already or not simply because there are just so many posts to try and go through.

The first idea i had was the Surveyor.

it would be either a place able block or a hand held item. i personally see it as a item block. this could be a very handy tool in later stages of the game as a way to explore the land to get an idea of what is near bye. without having to hop into creative mode and fly around drilling random holes in the ground to see what kind of stone you have beneath you.

its functions

it would act like what surveyors use today to take core samples. when placed right clicking on it will open a cui that gives you a list of information about the biome you are in, while it wont tell you what kind it is, it would tell you basic information about the area you are in. such as what the layers of rock are near you and what order they are in, as well as a relative list of the ores near bye.

i imagine you could utilize the same scan criteria that is used in sluices and small rocks to give you a general idea of what is there, except with this block i would give it a wider search radius.

now i honestly cant decide if it would be better to have it be a crafted block only, or to make it similar to the bloomery, where you make the item, but you need to build around it in order for it to function, a high end component for this would be a forged item called the drillbit or whatever you want to call it. this would be made the same way as all other things at the anvil with a pattern like this

O O O O O

O O O O O

O O O O O

O O O O O

O O O O O

my thoughts for a crafting pattern for the surveyor are this.

O O O O = Plank O = Air

O O O O = Drill bit

O O O O = Stick

as far as how to place it, im still a bit fuzzy on the details. my first thought is to simply make it stand alone. like an anvil something that can be placed and picked up relatively easily. the second thought is to make something that you must place this block in to make it work, such as the method the bloomry uses. but i really cant think of any good patterns to work at the moment.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Idea Two

my next idea was to simply make gems a placeable block. the best idea i can think of for this would be to make them take shape depending on their size, the smallest being 1/10 by 1/10 the largest being 5/10 by 5/10.

no i am absolutely no coder. nor do i pretend to understand how all that mumbojumbo works, but looking at it from a logic stand point i think the best method for this would be using the same setup as the chiseled blocks use. im not sure how easy this would be to make them set sizes but if you can, then i think combining that with how the torches and levers have place specific patterns. like if you place a torch on the wall its slightly slanted and if its on the ground its straight up and down.

if you could figure this out im sure you could apply this to ingots as well. this would be a fantastic way to show wealth on servers and open up the door to even more creativity.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

i know this mod already exists

but i think it would be fantastic to have something else to keep you company in single player, as well as serve function in mp.

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/472937-125castle-defendersv25-improved-mages/

i dont know if it would be possible for the two of you to chat a bit to see if the mode might work together.

this is only a simple idea not one that i would really press a lot of energy for.

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If you had searched enough, you would have seen amble evidence that

1: technology is NOT progressing beyond the 1600's so, any electronics (ie drill) are not going to be added, unless of course you suggest mechanically driven drills... which is another topic.

2: Prospecting picks (Similar to this) have been steadfastly blocked off at their currecnt amount of effectiveness.

3 It would make the game easier, quite the opposite of what much of this mod hopes to accomplish.

Idea 2, has been suggested many times before, at least showing off wealth for decoration/storage.

Idea 3 Well, this goes with making the game easier, and you are better off using the Beta 2 servers listed on the forum, if you want company.

In the future, make sure to refer to the search bar, while it isn't perfect, it gives you a good idea on what has already been suggested, as well as the suggestion directory.

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i fully understood the fact that future tech is not being implemented, and i completely agree with not improving the pro-pick. however this idea is as simple as a drill, the only true function i would have wanted it to serve is to tell me what is below me, ie what rocks, and that is a tech that has been around as long as we have had the idea of a well. this was never meant to be a tool for ore as the description i gave never said it was. it would not serve any other purpose as it would not yeild an item, i mentioned sluices as an example for the search engine it might use. its really quite simplistic, the idea of is detecting ore is as simple as. "you pull up a core what do you see" if there is no ore in the area, then you would see none." its really not that advanced of a tech. and if you truly must know, in earlier years such as 1600's and before, there were still many people who had an understanding of alchemy, which is really just a form of understand how basic chemistry works, and seeing basic reactions between rock shavings and fire was ample evidence to tell you what types of metals and minerals are present.

the cui that i was referring to was mainly a matter of simplicity. i would assume it to be much simpler to implement something that just lists data rather than try to make an item that A. would take up space and B. would be completely useless.

and as per the other two ideas, i used is suggestion directory i simply did not see the gem one in the sections i thought it might be in, after looking you are right that there was one on placing ingots. fine and dandy, i apologize for repeating myself.

as per the third i explained clearly that it was just a passing thought, which i would usually interpret as, "if you don't like it ignore it" but apparently not all think that way so my bad once again.

i don't mean to sound rude, but that's kind of how typing is read.

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Apologies, i have seen too many posts about improving sluices/propicks, that they all start to blend into one big whine, i misinterpreted that, as wanting to see what ores are around, although i still feel that since we have rocks of the rock layer on the surface, i feel that it would be a redundant idea. And the wealth idea was not in the directory, but in several recent posts, so that might have been easy to miss.

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You seem to have a lacking in comprehension of how sluices work. The idea is that ore deposits are washed down river, and can be collected from the water. The idea that you could tell the ores in the area by taking a core sample from a single place is absurd, and unless the sample was metres long, it wouldn't tell you anything about more than the preliminary rock type, which is already displayed via loose rocks.

And wells aren't typically drilled through solid rock.

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i understand your point about not drilling through solid rock. however it has been proven that ancient encryption's had the technology to drill out rock in the same fashion as i have described.

if you want a site for proof then here http://www.theglobal...es/hrdfact1.php

and figuring out what ores are in the area is not really all that absurd. veins of ore in the real world, do not form like they do in terrafermacraft. ad in terrafirmacraft you only have blocks to work with. in the real world you do not get the luxury of working with "blocks of rich ore" you have to look for areas that show traces of ore, which is how a pro-pick works in real life, you get bits and pieces of the rock and look to see what the properties are in the pieces you gather, but once again i reiterate, "i did not care if it detected metals" i just know that that is something i would look at if i had a core sample in my hand.

and as far as thinking it might be an op tool for finding ore. my thoughts are to make it only tell you What is in the area it scans. the information displayed would read the three rock layers and what their order is. and if it happened to detect any ores within its search radius it would tell you, but that dose not mean to say it will tell you where and or how much ore there is. it could detect one block and say hey there is gold here.

and as far as deep mining goes, ancients had no reason to delve the different rock layers, and the rock layers they would be going through would more than likely be softer stones and upon reaching the harder more dense stone it would more than likely have stalemated them. where as minecraft and terrafermacraft, we can simply delve on into the depths.

i understand how sluices work just fine. but in coding they still have a search radius, and a scanning mechanic. as i stated before... i did not mean for it to work Like a Real sluice. simply to use the same "coding mechanic" as to how it would detect what is in the area.

if your still hellbent on shooting down this idea that is fine.

all im trying to sugest is something that in later game stages can be used to determine the usefulness of things "deeper" than the first layer of rock. while still trying to stay within the parameters of before 1600's

a note i forgot to mention, as far as the bit is concerned, i would only think to make it out of the steel. nothing less. as that would make too simple to get in early game. you could also remove the feature that makes it movable. and simply make it like the bloomerys "you break it, you lose it"

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i understand your point about not drilling through solid rock. however it has been proven that ancient encryption's had the technology to drill out rock in the same fashion as i have described.

if you want a site for proof then here http://www.theglobal...es/hrdfact1.php

and figuring out what ores are in the area is not really all that absurd. veins of ore in the real world, do not form like they do in terrafermacraft. ad in terrafirmacraft you only have blocks to work with. in the real world you do not get the luxury of working with "blocks of rich ore" you have to look for areas that show traces of ore, which is how a pro-pick works in real life, you get bits and pieces of the rock and look to see what the properties are in the pieces you gather, but once again i reiterate, "i did not care if it detected metals" i just know that that is something i would look at if i had a core sample in my hand.

and as far as thinking it might be an op tool for finding ore. my thoughts are to make it only tell you What is in the area it scans. the information displayed would read the three rock layers and what their order is. and if it happened to detect any ores within its search radius it would tell you, but that dose not mean to say it will tell you where and or how much ore there is. it could detect one block and say hey there is gold here.

and as far as deep mining goes, ancients had no reason to delve the different rock layers, and the rock layers they would be going through would more than likely be softer stones and upon reaching the harder more dense stone it would more than likely have stalemated them. where as minecraft and terrafermacraft, we can simply delve on into the depths.

i understand how sluices work just fine. but in coding they still have a search radius, and a scanning mechanic. as i stated before... i did not mean for it to work Like a Real sluice. simply to use the same "coding mechanic" as to how it would detect what is in the area.

if your still hellbent on shooting down this idea that is fine.

all im trying to sugest is something that in later game stages can be used to determine the usefulness of things "deeper" than the first layer of rock. while still trying to stay within the parameters of before 1600's

a note i forgot to mention, as far as the bit is concerned, i would only think to make it out of the steel. nothing less. as that would make too simple to get in early game. you could also remove the feature that makes it movable. and simply make it like the bloomerys "you break it, you lose it"

"hellbent"?

dude. It wasn't the best idea. live with that.

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i would like to see some form of core sample device (or system) added to the mod

we could add a core sample drill to the game as the early versions were hand powered

one idea i had was that a metal pipe with a hardened drill tip could be placed in a "frame"

the "frame" could be placed on the ground and the "pipe" placed in it.

this device could than take a sample of the rock below (or on different angles) within a small area

to power the device, you would stand at the back of the frame and you would repeatedly hit the end of the pipe with a hammer

this would drive the pipe into the ground, taking a "core sample"

the sample would be removed from the pipe to view ground below you

this system is rather old (though more modern technologies have improved the system) first appearing in mid-evil silver mines around the 13 th century.

i understand most people don t think that this would not be needed in a game like minecraft, though it would add to the accuracy of terrafirma craft.

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But where is the use? one can easily tell what rock is below by simply digging down 3 or so blocks, or looking at the loose rocks strewn around.

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But where is the use? one can easily tell what rock is below by simply digging down 3 or so blocks, or looking at the loose rocks strewn around.

yea o well

just putting ideas out there

if we had a motorised system we could use the sample drill to view the deep layers of rock below the surface

though that tech is out of the question at the mo

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Even still, if you had materials to create a drill capable of that, you would have access to a pick axe which is much the same in usability. besides, as dunk said, one core sample will tell you nothing, many many samples are required and must be quite long to glean any info.

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Even still, if you had materials to create a drill capable of that, you would have access to a pick axe which is much the same in usability. besides, as dunk said, one core sample will tell you nothing, many many samples are required and must be quite long to glean any info.

i ve done irl core sample drilling so yea i know that many samples must be taken

but if you were to set up the drill on an angle, you would get a much larger and longer core sample, which would have a much better chance of hitting an ore body

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"hellbent"?

dude. It wasn't the best idea. live with that.

your right, that was a immature comment of me to make. and honestly after going over it with some of the guys on the server, it has the potential to become a very interesting search tool. if combined right with the propick. however, If you were to ever implement a way to utilize the XL biomes from 1.3 i think that could make it a bit more worth while for servers in particular. some of the things we went over were based off its search box size, they suggested making it the same dimensions as the pro-pick only making it go down all the way. in this fashion it would be the same as if you just dug straight down pro picking the whole way. but in all honesty i really didnt want it to be something to tell me the ore in the area, i just wanted to know what the other two rock layers were that i could not get to right away. this stemed from when i flew around my sp world on creative plunging holes and cataloging all the biomes. trying to find rock salt. out of all of them i found 20 with that rock, and none of those were on the top layer, now i know that has to just be really bad luck as far as world gen goes, but hey lol.

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Ba-da bap-ba-baaa, not lovin' it

Posted Image

I want to like this, but I feel that might be rude lol
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I want to like this, but I feel that might be rude lol

Been going on a bit of a like-binge with me lately, haven't ya XD

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Been going on a bit of a like-binge with me lately, haven't ya XD

you're a funny guy with interesting posts who seems in general to think along the same lines as i do
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Been going on a bit of a like-binge with me lately, haven't ya XD

you're a funny guy with interesting posts who seems in general to think along the same lines as i do

Get a room you two!

On Topic: I have no intention of adding more things to make pinpointing ores even more precise. The time invested is what makes the ore valuable. Besides the amount of time needed to do any type of core sampling would would be useless in MC where you can just tunnel straight down. The amount of time needed to add this vs the value of gameplay added is not worth the time to create this.

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Get a room you two!

On Topic: I have no intention of adding more things to make pinpointing ores even more precise. The time invested is what makes the ore valuable. Besides the amount of time needed to do any type of core sampling would would be useless in MC where you can just tunnel straight down. The amount of time needed to add this vs the value of gameplay added is not worth the time to create this.

We'll get a room as soon as you patch in money to pay the innkeep :3

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It would be nice to have some way to determine the 2 lower layers of rock, as im not a geologist and know almost nothing of the sort i wont pretend to know and wont suggest anything specific. But digging a 1x1 hole down 80+ blocks to find the rock types is a bit unrealistic, irl prospectors dont go around digging little holes all over the place. The only way a 1x1 hole is feasible in minecraft NON-Creative is if you have loads and loads of ladders, and that isn't very realistic carrying around 80+ meters of ladder in your pocket. digging a quarry (3x3 or 2x2 with a staicase winding down) is very time consuming and not really practical for finding a specific rock layer. and the samen goes for 1x2 diagonal staircase tunneling. So it would be nice to have some way of finding out without all the tedium of the current methods.

Disclaimer: I do not wish to make the game easier, in fact I like how hard it is, and would welcome more hardness (is that a word? :P). But there is a difference between a challenge and something just being tedious and boring, and the current ways of discerning what rocks your standing on are vert much on the tedious side of things in my mind. I also dont think that it should be easy to make whatever item that does this function, it should certainly be a late game item and very time consuming and resource guzzling to make as any thing that makes things easier should have a price to balance it out. I know im kinda showing my support for the less favored party here, but i just wanted to state my opinion on a relevant issue, that i think should be addressed.

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It would be nice to have some way to determine the 2 lower layers of rock, as im not a geologist and know almost nothing of the sort i wont pretend to know and wont suggest anything specific. But digging a 1x1 hole down 80+ blocks to find the rock types is a bit unrealistic, irl prospectors dont go around digging little holes all over the place. The only way a 1x1 hole is feasible in minecraft NON-Creative is if you have loads and loads of ladders, and that isn't very realistic carrying around 80+ meters of ladder in your pocket. digging a quarry (3x3 or 2x2 with a staicase winding down) is very time consuming and not really practical for finding a specific rock layer. and the samen goes for 1x2 diagonal staircase tunneling. So it would be nice to have some way of finding out without all the tedium of the current methods.

Disclaimer: I do not wish to make the game easier, in fact I like how hard it is, and would welcome more hardness (is that a word? :P). But there is a difference between a challenge and something just being tedious and boring, and the current ways of discerning what rocks your standing on are vert much on the tedious side of things in my mind. I also dont think that it should be easy to make whatever item that does this function, it should certainly be a late game item and very time consuming and resource guzzling to make as any thing that makes things easier should have a price to balance it out. I know im kinda showing my support for the less favored party here, but i just wanted to state my opinion on a relevant issue, that i think should be addressed.

You really shouldn't have the infrastructure to support going down that far until the late game, and by then you should be able to just dig your hole.
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You really shouldn't have the infrastructure to support going down that far until the late game, and by then you should be able to just dig your hole.

I need to get kimberlite and graphite.

They don't have any signs on surface and they spawn in third/second/very bottom of top layer

How do I realisticly find them?

I do not wish waisting 20 minutes, making tunnel down, finding that layers are wrong(and because there 21 stone layer and only 4 graphite bearing stone types there 4/5 chance that they will be wrong), go back up and fill the hole somehow. Then go till next top stone layer and repeat this miserable chore. Also I can die by falling into random cave and I can't craft any safety belts , that I will definitely would wear if I had a chance to fall into my doom(and this is simple rope knot work and should be available in 1600 year).

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Not sure where you are getting the bottom of top layer information. Graphite can spawn on surface and up mountains even. I always find my graphite by chance. I randomly propick as I explore. If you know the second layer is a graphite bearing stone the check around edge of any large hill or mountain as the second layer stone is closer to surface there.

In the end it is RNG though. You hope for luck and curse your bad luck. You can increase the rate of spawning in the TFCOre.cfg. Set rarity to a lower number for more spawning.

As for ropes etc. You can add a mod like ropes+. Although you'd need to use minetweaker for recipes.

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I do not wish waisting 20 minutes, making tunnel down, finding that layers are wrong (and because there 21 stone layer and only 4 graphite bearing stone types there 4/5 chance that they will be wrong)

Technically, if you're tunneling down to the middle layer, no sedimentary stone shows up there at all - sedimentary is top layer only.  So you have a 4/13 chance to find graphite bearing stone in the middle layer (~30% chance).  All graphite bearing stone is metamorphic, and metamorphic doesn't even show up in the bottom layer, only top & mid.  So there's no reason to dig below the middle layer looking for graphite. 

And ya, like Bunsan said, it shows up exposed in the top layer.  It's not Y-limited.  It's easiest to just find a graphite bearing top layer and run around propicking.  You may get lucky and stumble on some exposed, especially in mountainous terrain.   but eventually you'll get a reading pro-picking.  Easier than boreholes, and also easier than caving with cave-in mechanics as they are now, imo.

So you only need to know the top and mid layers when looking for graphite.  And there's usually a ravine every once in awhile that goes down to the mid layer, and also uplifts of the middle layer exposed in mountain areas as Bunsan pointed out, so you don't even really need to tunnel that much if you are just looking to know what the middle layer is.  Propicking it is another story of course.

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