Scorched ground

[kotoroshinoto 97]

NOPE NOPE NOPE, actually we had a discussion on this already, and came to the conclusion, that the potential for griefing was far too great, maybe as an addon (done by community) but not in the base game.

Ppl are too concerned with griefing potential in my opinion. A griefer if depleted of all other options will simply steal your shit and destroy the house, you're not going to stop them simply because there are fewer features to exploit.

this is why so many servers have banlists and permissions plugins. (i know a lot of the permission things are bukkit, but we can probably expect these to begin workin with vanilla once the API comes out.)

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

Ppl are too concerned with griefing potential in my opinion. A griefer if depleted of all other options will simply steal your shit and destroy the house, you're not going to stop them simply because there are fewer features to exploit.

this is why so many servers have banlists and permissions plugins. (i know a lot of the permission things are bukkit, but we can probably expect these to begin workin with vanilla once the API comes out.)

its just the fact that it would be so easy to greif with this,

-launches one fire arrow at a village-

-runs off into the night and is never seen again-

village burns to the ground

and theres no way to track when people fire a bow

[redundantusage 330]

In most mods that require things to burn, I tend to burn down my own homes (normally accidentally) which is why I now build almost entirely out of stone when possible. Most farmland we have in game is too hydrated to catch fire legitimately. So really the worst that happens is they'd increase the fertilization level of your surrounding grass. To take it a step further, make it so normal grass won't spread fire, only the drier brush grass that Bioxx added. Just seems more believable than the whole world catching fire because Zandorum forgot and left his flint and tinder going outside his shack.

[renadi 258]

Ppl are too concerned with griefing potential in my opinion. A griefer if depleted of all other options will simply steal your shit and destroy the house, you're not going to stop them simply because there are fewer features to exploit.

this is why so many servers have banlists and permissions plugins. (i know a lot of the permission things are bukkit, but we can probably expect these to begin workin with vanilla once the API comes out.)

This is my opinion, if you're not adding a feature because of ''griefing potential'' it's likely hampering the game, just give us ways to defend ourselves, make fire spread slow but exponentially, give us a way to fight it and we'll be even stronger for it.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Or, as griefers seems to be the problem, give the admins a way to know who fired the arrows ._. or both, as we can have accidental fires even in SSP worlds.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

I don't think the problem is whether or not we can CODE it, it's probably closer to whether or not we can code it without editing any base files.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

its just the fact that it would be so easy to greif with this,

-launches one fire arrow at a village-

-runs off into the night and is never seen again-

village burns to the ground

and theres no way to track when people fire a bow

"and theres no way to track when people fire a bow" this is a mod, they could EASILY add a way to track this if it became a problem.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

"and theres no way to track when people fire a bow" this is a mod, they could EASILY add a way to track this if it became a problem.

well seince you find it so easy, why not tell us how you plan to do it?

and besides, how would you be able to tell between who fired the arrow that burned the vilage down and who just was sniping at mobs from their house

[kotoroshinoto 97]

well seince you find it so easy, why not tell us how you plan to do it?

and besides, how would you be able to tell between who fired the arrow that burned the vilage down and who just was sniping at mobs from their house

report firing player, arrow type, and impact point. Non flaming arrows wouldn't be something to look @, and honestly if the dingbat sniping mobs was using flaming arrows in town limits with the possibility of a brushfire taking out the whole town, he should be reprimanded anyway.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

report firing player, arrow type, and impact point. Non flaming arrows wouldn't be something to look @, and honestly if the dingbat sniping mobs was using flaming arrows in town limits with the possibility of a brushfire taking out the whole town, he should be reprimanded anyway.

alright but now the console gets uber spam from everyone who owns a bow on the server, and wouldnt skelleton arrows cause the server to log those too?

[kotoroshinoto 97]

alright but now the console gets uber spam from everyone who owns a bow on the server, and wouldnt skelleton arrows cause the server to log those too?

Not really, they're already marked as a different kind of entity, note they dont leave an item behind you can retrieve. They could be set not to report.

Also the spam thing really isn't a problem, if you're running a server properly you'd be either piping the output to a logfile or running it in a way that it logs to a file AND shows on screen. (there are ways to do either). Its a simple matter to grep for the data you're actually looking for.

[Scooterdanny 285]

You realize, of course, there has to be Hooks to obtain that kind of information? That's why Sdbaynham was trying to upgrade to the latest forge with new hooks that would allow logging of what was taken from a chest. A hook would have to be made, that logs the trajectory, time, position of arrows, then with that, logging all fires started by that one item, so essentially, a new fire entity, with logging of all the affected blocks from that fire. It would be f***ing terrible, please don't say it's easy, because it really isn't.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

You realize, of course, there has to be Hooks to obtain that kind of information? That's why Sdbaynham was trying to upgrade to the latest forge with new hooks that would allow logging of what was taken from a chest. A hook would have to be made, that logs the trajectory, time, position of arrows, then with that, logging all fires started by that one item, so essentially, a new fire entity, with logging of all the affected blocks from that fire. It would be f***ing terrible, please don't say it's easy, because it really isn't.

and by the way, look at things realisticly, say the admin is like the king, the king cant see everything that's going on at all times in all places in his kingdom

[kotoroshinoto 97]

You realize, of course, there has to be Hooks to obtain that kind of information? That's why Sdbaynham was trying to upgrade to the latest forge with new hooks that would allow logging of what was taken from a chest. A hook would have to be made, that logs the trajectory, time, position of arrows, then with that, logging all fires started by that one item, so essentially, a new fire entity, with logging of all the affected blocks from that fire. It would be f***ing terrible, please don't say it's easy, because it really isn't.

easy and feasible aren't the same thing. When I say easy i'm talking in relative context to what people in the field I'm interested in tackle. (bioinformatics. usually involves coming up with heuristics to get acceptable, but imperfect solutions to NP-complete problems. Also involves working with relatively small strings that number in the MILLIONS, and comparing these to a larger set of strings whose character lengths are in the billions.) Illumina sequencing data routinely returns several million strings of length ~ 100 that you then have to align to human genome which is itself ~ 3 Billion characters long, broken into 22 paired substrings and 1 that is either a matched or mismatched pair (XX or XY) .

In contrast to stuff like that, its a lot of work to put the hook in, but not difficult per se. (it wouldn't tax your brainpower, just drain your concentration and time)

It actually makes sense to put in a projectile tracking hook, someone should probably suggest it to forge/bukkitdev teams.

[Scooterdanny 285]

Psh, bioinformatics wasn't that bad when i took a course on it XD

But still, fire arrows-Bad, besides the fact that the range on them sucked balls, and took like 6 times longer to use. The complication of it is too much, unless the griefing potential is taken away, or an option added for it.

But i think many people that contest the griefability of an addition, have yet to actually try multiplayer tfc seriously. It's way too easy to just waltz in and ruin days, and days of effort, in less than one minute.

[Jed1314 420]

Psh, bioinformatics wasn't that bad when i took a course on it XD

But still, fire arrows-Bad, besides the fact that the range on them sucked balls, and took like 6 times longer to use. The complication of it is too much, unless the griefing potential is taken away, or an option added for it.

But i think many people that contest the griefability of an addition, have yet to actually try multiplayer tfc seriously. It's way too easy to just waltz in and ruin days, and days of effort, in less than one minute.

Agree'd. I would love throwable torches, flame arrows and flammable blocks for TFC, but it is way too easy to abuse these features :/

[kotoroshinoto 97]

Psh, bioinformatics wasn't that bad when i took a course on it XD

Thats probably because it wasn't a programming related course that employed machine learning, clustering, attempting structural predictions from base sequence, etc. If it WAS, then you're a bit smarter than average if you thought it wasn't that bad.

If on the other hand it was just teaching you how to make use of existing tools like BLAST, then it wasn't really teaching you bioinformatics.

[Scooterdanny 285]

Nah, BLAST is simple as hell, i've been using a crap ton of programming related functionally, (i really dislike matlab on a side note, the scripting languages are bad imo)

[kotoroshinoto 97]

Nah, BLAST is simple as hell, i've been using a crap ton of programming related functionally, (i really dislike matlab on a side note, the scripting languages are bad imo)

matlab IS pretty terrible, I don't really get why its so popular, if you REALLY need it, its not THAT hard to implement matrix behavior using STL objects or arrays and put it into a library. heck its probably already been done.

I assume you meant MATLAB's personal scripting languages, but brining up the major nonmatlab languages for a moment:

As for python and perl, I dont mind them nearly as much as I hate R. R is USEFUL, but some of its implementations were done in really dumb ways. For instance, the PNG creating components tie in to X11, requiring X to be installed and a monitor to be present, they never even considered that we might want to use it on a headless server....

I tried to use a tool called BICseq, and ended up having to install X on the server as well as a tool called xvfb (x video frame buffer), to provide a false environment for the program to run in so the R script would work.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

too...much....computer-talk....

-explodes-

[Scooterdanny 285]

matlab IS pretty terrible, I don't really get why its so popular, if you REALLY need it, its not THAT hard to implement matrix behavior using STL objects or arrays and put it into a library. heck its probably already been done.

I assume you meant MATLAB's personal scripting languages, but brining up the major nonmatlab languages for a moment:

As for python and perl, I dont mind them nearly as much as I hate R. R is USEFUL, but some of its implementations were done in really dumb ways. For instance, the PNG creating components tie in to X11, requiring X to be installed and a monitor to be present, they never even considered that we might want to use it on a headless server....

I tried to use a tool called BICseq, and ended up having to install X on the server as well as a tool called xvfb (x video frame buffer), to provide a false environment for the program to run in so the R script would work.

Yeah, i really Prefer Python for scripting, and well said sir.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

easy and feasible aren't the same thing. When I say easy i'm talking in relative context to what people in the field I'm interested in tackle. (bioinformatics. usually involves coming up with heuristics to get acceptable, but imperfect solutions to NP-complete problems. Also involves working with relatively small strings that number in the MILLIONS, and comparing these to a larger set of strings whose character lengths are in the billions.) Illumina sequencing data routinely returns several million strings of length ~ 100 that you then have to align to human genome which is itself ~ 3 Billion characters long, broken into 22 paired substrings and 1 that is either a matched or mismatched pair (XX or XY) .

In contrast to stuff like that, its a lot of work to put the hook in, but not difficult per se. (it wouldn't tax your brainpower, just drain your concentration and time)

It actually makes sense to put in a projectile tracking hook, someone should probably suggest it to forge/bukkitdev teams.

o.=.o I just use NCBIs databases... pretty simple for me...

[kotoroshinoto 97]

o.=.o I just use NCBIs databases... pretty simple for me...

I was talking about the algorithm design part of bioinformatics when I referred to difficulty, not data access or understanding of already-published ideas.

Dynamic programming is easy to understand, but not necessarily an obvious solution.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

too...much....computer-talk....

-explodes-

Sorry I can't help myself sometimes :['''

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

Sorry I can't help myself sometimes :['''

yknow i realised i tend to do that a lot, sorry it's probably a huge mess for all of you guys

but i am rather prone to exploding....twice

(yes you can do that)