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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
dunkleosteus

Animals!

297 posts in this topic

Hello guys, I wanted to start this topic because I have a confession: I really kinda shit the bed on the animals. Recently, I've been really busy with school, but this next week I am off and have time to actually fix them, so that they'll walk around, have more behaviours, be able to breed and become useful.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to compile a list of the bugs, so I want to use this topic to get you guys to help me keep track of them, and to suggest new ones. Please don't suggest new mobs here, but instead you can post suggestions or discuss mobs in general.

The current goal of mobs is for them to behave in herds. They should be breeding in the wild, and giving birth to babies in the wild. Babies should drop a proportionate fraction of resources to their size. Smaller or larger mobs should drop more or less resources accordingly, and larger mobs should do more damage. Domesticating dogs is getting overhauled, along with added domestication for other animals. Domesticated animals can have a "home" set, so that they can wander around without leaving your property. Domesticated animals can also be lead (possibly with a leash of some sort) so that you can separate them, care for them, whatever. Mobs all have hunger, and starving animals will not die, but drop much less meat and are much weaker in terms of health and attack strength. Domestication of wolves involves finding a wolf pup and caring for it. Other animals will be domesticated by breeding wild animals. You will be able to lure wild animals to a pasture, where you can try and breed them. Wild animals will be very agressive and violent, and may retaliate or initiate an attack against you. Domestic animals will not attack you when you attack them.

Wild animals: Aurochs, wild boar, jungle fowl, wolf, bear, deer, bighorn sheep EDIT: wild cat

Domestic animals (only obtainable through breeding, taming): cow, pig, chicken, dog, sheep

http://terrafirmacraft.com/wiki/Mobs

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That remindes me, what happened to ocealot? Maybe I've missed a change-log, but I've grown fond of them in vanilla.

And wolves despawn, I've lost many tammed wolves, just by reloggin, maybe I'm doing it wrong, don't know.

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That remindes me, what happened to ocealot? Maybe I've missed a change-log, but I've grown fond of them in vanilla.

And wolves despawn, I've lost many tammed wolves, just by reloggin, maybe I'm doing it wrong, don't know.

thank you :), and yes I forgot: bioxx wants me to redo those too.
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I think for the behavior part there could be some easy things to make animals act more "social".

As sheep, pigs, etc. already spawn in groups (herds) you could add some group reactions to them: All animals off one group run away if one gets attacked. Baby animals often walk to their parents and male/females walk alongside each other even if they are not in breeding mode so it looks like they are connected to each other (they found a partner in the herd for example).

For sheep you could add a leading individual since real sheep herds have one that gets followed by the others. (horrible english sorry)

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The easiest change and that people will feel the difference is

All animals off one group run away if one gets attacked

Damn it is sad to slaughter a cow with the other one looking, just waiting....

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Milking cows is a known food source, but what about milking sheep? People do it in some countries.

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Maybe it would be possible to make animals walk into cover under leaves when it is raining, like mobs hiding in the dark in daylight to avoid death.

I think sheep and chickens don't like getting wet at all.^^

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Thanks guys. As for running away when one is attacked, deer are already programmed to do that, and will do it once the freezing problem is solved. Other animals might gang up and attack you when attacked (eep!)

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I'm REALLY looking forward to this, cause animal behaviour right now is just plain dumb.. These changes should make the TFC world feel a lot more alive.

Also, wolf pups ftw.

Speaking of wolves, they seem to be pretty borked as well atm. I remember reading in the changelog that they should growl and attack after a few seconds of staying close to them (I might be wrong?). But yeah, they don't seem to do that. Bears neither. If this is caused by the animals-not-moving-at-all bug, my bad.

Also, are you planning on doing something with they way cows are milked? Hitting a cow with a bucket is sillyish :/

Maybe make a stool item that you have to place next to the cow, you sit on it, and THEN hit the cow with a bucket? :P

I dunno, just a thought.

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I'm REALLY looking forward to this, cause animal behaviour right now is just plain dumb.. These changes should make the TFC world feel a lot more alive.

Also, wolf pups ftw.

Speaking of wolves, they seem to be pretty borked as well atm. I remember reading in the changelog that they should growl and attack after a few seconds of staying close to them (I might be wrong?). But yeah, they don't seem to do that. Bears neither. If this is caused by the animals-not-moving-at-all bug, my bad.

Also, are you planning on doing something with they way cows are milked? Hitting a cow with a bucket is sillyish :/

Maybe make a stool item that you have to place next to the cow, you sit on it, and THEN hit the cow with a bucket? :P

I dunno, just a thought.

Good points. Yeah, the wolves are supposed to behave that way, but I rushed instead of sitting and working through the bugs. I think possibly only domesticated cows that don't walk away will be milkable, and milk should have more uses. Maybe making cheese, so that chickens won't be the only mob worth keeping alive lol
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OK, will we ever see animal to animal interaction in TFC? Like a pack of wild cats hunting wild boars, wolves surrounding a pack of cows and attacking them. Another cool thing would be for wolves to be attracted to domesticated animals. So for example, you said you'll add a "domesticated animal sethome" around which said animals would gather and never move from it. This pretty much (if it works the way I think it will) beats the point of fences. But if you make wolves/bears be attracted to your farm animals, you HAVE to fence them in. The more animals you wanna have, the bigger the fenced area would need to be (because you need more grass the more animals you have, obviously), so that would kinda balance it out, making it harder to keep your animals alive but still possible with work.

Speaking of grass as the only source of food for animals, how about adding troughs, in which you would place left-over food (make food become bad over time? but that's a whole different topic :P) and the animals would eat it. And place another trough for water?

EDIT: Maybe the "home" thing could actually be a trough? It's logical that animals would gather around a source of food. Especially when they see you're constantly filling it up for them.

Now the trough itself wouldn't be an animal "home", but when you fill it with food and an animal eats it, it would be considered your domesticated animal.

EDIT2: ANIMAL POO! For use as a fertilizer :D Maybe mix a block/item of animal feces with a block of dirt and get a block of manure(?) which you can then place on the ground as normal dirt, till it with a hoe and plant on it?

Edited by AlmightySquid
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Goddammit, Squid, you were faster than me : i was about to ask exactly the same...

Let's see, what can i ask... err... *checking back his old topic about mobs behaviour* Ah, yes, will the mobs die when they have reached a determinated age? It's just doesn't feels right that the actual mobs can live forever if they are in a safe place...

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I would look into swarm mechanics for the herding behavior. Basic swarm mechanics are simple: Each animal has a constant velocity, Each animal changes it's direction toward every other animal, and each animal changes it's direction away from any animal closer than a minimum distance.

(using cows cause I'm lazy and don't want to type animals)

For a herds I would give them a range where they are free to move about as per normal.

Keep the minimum range where they want to get away form other cows. 1-2 blocks

Give them a medium range where they want to keep a minimum number of cows. wants to have 10+ cows within 25 blocks

Give them a maximum scanning range to look for more cows to put in the medium range. If < 10 cows within 25 blocks go toward any cows within 60 blocks

Of course remove constant velocity because cows are lazy too.

I would posit that this would give you groupings of 11 cows each.

I would also have group flight response defer to herding ( ie running away < friends ) and food searching super-cede herding (food > friends).

It would be interesting to see if this does what I think it would do or not.

EDIT: flipped a < symbol for correc-ityness

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I would look into swarm mechanics for the herding behavior. Basic swarm mechanics are simple: Each animal has a constant velocity, Each animal changes it's direction toward every other animal, and each animal changes it's direction away from any animal closer than a minimum distance.

(using cows cause I'm lazy and don't want to type animals)

For a herds I would give them a range where they are free to move about as per normal.

Keep the minimum range where they want to get away form other cows. 1-2 blocks

Give them a medium range where they want to keep a minimum number of cows. wants to have 10+ cows within 25 blocks

Give them a maximum scanning range to look for more cows to put in the medium range. If < 10 cows within 25 blocks go toward any cows within 60 blocks

Of course remove constant velocity because cows are lazy too.

I would posit that this would give you groupings of 11 cows each.

I would also have group flight response defer to herding ( ie running away < friends ) and food searching super-cede herding (food > friends).

It would be interesting to see if this does what I think it would do or not.

EDIT: flipped a < symbol for correc-ityness

I would add to that:

Minimum range a random that goes till 4 or 5, so that the cows are not stacked.

They could have a not so standard behavior, maybe the older cows protect the calf or a random pattern could be established by assigning a random variable to its code that control how the cow interacts with the player.

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I would add to that:

Minimum range a random that goes till 4 or 5, so that the cows are not stacked.

They could have a not so standard behavior, maybe the older cows protect the calf or a random pattern could be established by assigning a random variable to its code that control how the cow interacts with the player.

I suggested a small minimum range because cows particularly don't seem to care if they are REALLY packed together... especially when moving. Having a medium range of 25 for the herding movement to kick in should reduce stacking, especially when they have whatever normal random wandering when not subject to herding.

Also, for protection behavior you could have adults (or adult males) move toward the edges of the herd (increase minimum distance?)

Anyway, herding can stand alone in the hierarchy of animal behavior whatever else is added or altered. (such as find good grass, run if another cow within X gets attacked, find mate, etc)

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I suggested a small minimum range because cows particularly don't seem to care if they are REALLY packed together... especially when moving. Having a medium range of 25 for the herding movement to kick in should reduce stacking, especially when they have whatever normal random wandering when not subject to herding.

Also, for protection behavior you could have adults (or adult males) move toward the edges of the herd (increase minimum distance?)

Anyway, herding can stand alone in the hierarchy of animal behavior whatever else is added or altered. (such as find good grass, run if another cow within X gets attacked, find mate, etc)

I don't know about that, 1 or 2 is good when they are in danger or within a fence. But do you see cows so near each other in the wild? I just called that as a visual thing, cows are 2 blocks(If I recall correctly) and with one block spacing could give a wierd behavior.

I do agree with herding behavior. It would be a cool feature for large packs.

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The mob AI suggestions will make a great addition to the mod. Seeing mobs spawn, react to threats, and move in herds will work very nice. Of course make sure the bigger the individual mob, the smaller the pack should be.

But I mainly would like to see creative reasons to want to keep mobs alive - even those dangerous at night. I love the idea of keeping cows alive for a chain of dairy recipes; sheep for their wool; spiders for their silk production; dogs for protection; fertilizer from the lot of them. Poor pigs though; bacon is just too good to pass up.

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You could use pigs to search for truffles. Those things are the only fungi thing i ever dared to eat... just too good to let it go *-*

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Mobs all have hunger, and starving animals will not die, but drop much less meat and are much weaker in terms of health and attack strength.

Starving mobs should probably not try to breed, and wander far off looking for food sources.

Prey animals should want to back away from anything that is similar in size or bigger and is not of the same species out of instinct (unless it's holding food). Prey should also always run (as if they were attacked when they spot a natural predator. As a corollary Predators should sneak (shift) while hunting. As implicated predators should hunt when hungry.

Animals should be able to pick and eat (or directly eat as an act of picking up) loose food items (seeds/grain dropped on the ground, beef or pork dropped from an animal being killed)

Should animals have a 1 slot inventory to carry up to a stack of food to their young?

Domesticated animals can have a "home" set, so that they can wander around without leaving your property.

Should animals that care for their young have a "home" where the young are tethered to to make the above 1 slot inventory needed?

Should I cut my mental ramblings short and get back to work?

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Wince everything else I wanted to say has been said, I will say this; wool needs to be able to be used to make string. And string should be a requirement for attaching toolheads to sticks.

Edit: are fish a planned mob? :)

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Wince everything else I wanted to say has been said, I will say this; wool needs to be able to be used to make string. And string should be a requirement for attaching toolheads to sticks.

And leather clothes.

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Wince everything else I wanted to say has been said, I will say this; wool needs to be able to be used to make string. And string should be a requirement for attaching toolheads to sticks.

Edit: are fish a planned mob? :)

Fish has been confirmed for a long time.

As far as the other suggestions, thank you guys. I would like to make a few points though. I really like the swarming mechanic, but I can predict that it might cause some lag and/or prevent the animals from performing other tasks. Larger animals don't necessarilly form smaller herds... And "prey" animals aren't the timid scaredy-cats everyone seems to think they are. Any animal that thinks it's life is in danger is really quite dangerous (save the odd chicken or rabbit) [inb4 rabbits in tfc. Not planned as of yet] cows, pigs and deer can be really dangerous, and there have been cases of deer attacking and harming humans. Just the other week, a pig farmer in Oregon was killed and devoured by his pigs and cows and stampedes kill people all the time.

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Something simpler than the swarming might be like what happens in a regular herd, where there is an alpha male or female that the others follow. It wouldn't be a lockstep of course, each animal would have a certain distance they might individually be alright with moving away from the alpha, but when the alpha moves, it signals the others to move in that general direction as well to keep from getting too far away.

Biggest trouble I see with this is maybe the number of calculations per animal and based on herd distances, and possibly with the herd "appointing new leadership" to another animal in the herd should the alpha die. Course, would be cool if all the adults die and the baby cows go off to follow a wolf alpha, who then raises them to be the natural predators >:D

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Will there be traps we can use to easily catch the wild creatures? eg. Dwarf fortress cage traps, pit traps, etc.

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