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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Bioxx

Official Death Penalty Discussion

262 posts in this topic

This is the place to discuss the Death Penalty system that is coming soon.

The basic philosophy behind my desire for TFC to have some sort of death penalty is that everything is just so darn easy without it. "Starving? Don't worry about it, just drop your stuff in a chest and jump off a ledge to get your hunger bar filled!". Things such as this are what has prevented minecraft from every being truly challenging. The only time the non-hardcore player ever fears death is when it comes to falling in lava and this is unacceptable. Killing yourself should never be desirable gameplay.

Now before I implement absolutely brutal, draconian, penalties for death its probably a good idea for you guys to offer your input. :P

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You could have a debuff after you die. For example, your movement would be slowed, or breaking speed would get slower, or maybe you would have less total health after a while. Just my two cents. :D

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WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Bioxx read this: YOU'RE MY HERO!!!!!!!!!

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Life pool demerits:

On your post on the main page you mentioned revamps to life pool, how about, you start with a cerain amount, or respawn with it, but... when you have lived one year, or consumed some buff, you can have more than the normal amount of a life pool...

Spawn protection demerits:

SSP: resets spawn protection, if possible

SMP: reduces spawn protection by, idk, maybe a month.

All I've got in the few seconds it took me to write this ;)

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Temporary ban for SMP. That'll annoy punish them.

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Temporary ban for SMP. That'll annoy punish them.

But if someone falls by mistake? You can't ban all the people on a mountain server.
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Maybe people lost 1 total heart of life after they die (ie. they can't regain it)

But every increment of 30 minutes they stay alive while they are not afk/offline they gain 1 total heart of life (no regaining more than the max amount of hearts (i think it's something like 10...))

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Maybe they revive with the same hunger bar (I.E. it doesn't fill from anything other then food.)

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I would like to put the focus on when the player dies, not after they die.

First and formost, ask the question: what happens to the player?

In vanilla, they disappear entirely, dropping some items. Its obviously not a big deal because I have watched players suicide constantly rather then starve.

In TFC I would change this. Death of a player would leave a lootable body, one that lasts for an unlimited time and acts like a chest. Now, for those paying attention, this is in effect a wonderful BUFF. so lets talk debuffs.

Dead bodies are interesting things. Very interesting. Dont understand what Im saying? Well, you should ask that creeper that just happened to pop up nearby. Mhhm, yeah, I think you get it, dead bodies allow mobs to spawn ignoring any conditions(other then lighting)

Uhhg, battlefields. Wonderful things, your always tripping over the dead. Oh yeah, thats what im saying. Bodies have mass and volume. They get in the way, slow you down, and if your swinging an axe, often can get hit. Because they are dead, they are not going to just poof away, no no, they are going to stay there and continue to annoy you. You should consider burring them soon, because:

as the lore go's, the dead make poor company. Ask any gamer worth his/her joystick(no, not THAT joystick. -.-). If something is dead, its liable TO COME BACK. Yep, this is a gamers world, and in this world, the dead dont die. They come back and bring you into the light. So, that dead body your using to store all that wonderful gear cause you dont want to waste wood has decided to go mimic on your ass and wants a bite. oh and for those wondering, no, these are not your oldschool zeds who dont have a brain and move ass effing slow, these are zeds that open doors, run at a sprint, and will pick up a bow and shoot you in the knee. Oh and because these zeds are still dead, they have that wonderful little habit of bringing guests. More the merrier, right? Right?

New mob introduced:

Dead player: Inf Health, 0 damage, can only be removed from world by Looting. Skin used: uses the same skin as the player(works just like the player head item in 1.4), spawns mobs around it.

Player Zombie. 80 health, 18 damage, speed of sprinting player, opens doors, picks up items, eats your face. Skin used: uses the same skin as the player(works just like the player head item in 1.4), spawns mobs around it. drops ONLY equipped items

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I have a idea, but i'm still working on it.

In the meanwhile, good job with this mod! You're awesome!

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What about regarding a player dying as being crippled? So, 'Death' doesn't truely exist when you're not playing in hardcore, but what happens you could say is:

The player becomes crippled, suffering broken limbs &/or blood loss, or the pain barrier is reached, then blacks out.

During the time it takes to respawn, as normal - you could say the player crawls or wobbles back to their homes (Where their bed is located) or they'll wake up (respawn) somewhere in the wilderness.

So, my idea is based upon this 'assumption', so you could possibly add the following random penalties to the player (Treated like potion effects, though the issue is milk could be used to negate the injuries, but what if milk has that use removed, and a splint item is added that does it? Ok, maybe a little too much. But just putting it there)

  • Blood loss (Maximium number of hearts decreased by 25%-50% for x time, x could be hours, days, or until specific requirements are reached. Different levels of blood loss could be randomised)
  • Broken limb/s (Legs decrease speed, arms decrease block breaking speed and damage, head - maybe an overlay, a blurred one at that, like the pumpkin helmet could be added, with decreased bow range, damage or speed. Possibility things like splints etc. could be added to decrease the effects, though personally I think that might be going to far. Or maybe not *shrugs*)
  • Bruised (Maximium number of hearts decreased by 5%-10%)
This is also treating hearts as your ability to endure pain, rather than blood. But then again, all of the above could still be used with the idea of blood loss, I'd guess.

So, the impact on players:

  • If the effects can stack (This could mean literally that effects get worse), avoiding death will be important for players. If the kingdoms aspect of the mod is intergrated in the near future, then this would be very important - keep your people alive, and kill the attackers. Worse thing you need on MC is a group of people who keep coming back over and over just to kill you and your villagers, but this still applies to survival.

    Still, players will be reluctant to go back to the fighting even with a basic injury, because it puts them at quite a serious disadvantage.

  • Players who have been killed at spawn will suffer, so new players may have a hard time if they are killed by mobs. But that is up to the server to protect against those issues.
  • Wars and engaging mobs will be more dangerous, and personally I would love an incentive to actually prepare for deep-underground mining or travelling during the night. Right now running away from mobs is very easy, so all you need is a little bit of food and a jav or two.
  • Solves the issue of people being lazy and just killing themselves, just the like the example given in the first post. Also means players may actually be scared, to one extent or another, from dying.
@ ECC

The idea of spawning an entity every time a player dies could be very open to abuse / griefing. What if a player picks up an item of dirt and kills themselves, and keeps doing it until a hundred corpses are littered around their house or spawn? That could be very serious for servers.


Anyway, that's my suggestion :)

Keep up the awesome work on the mod - absolutely love it, as do a number of people in my clan!

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What would be 'fun' (note: dwarf fortress fun) would be if on death the amount of spawn protect you had stored up inverted and became some sort of 'ruins' zone where mob spawns enhanced; sort of like an instant-dungeon. In order to reclaim the area you'd need to fight and spend X amount of time per protection month that had been there, depending on how intense mob spawning would be made and if they can spawn ontop of you.

As for SMP if a player dies just take the months of protection he/she earnt and subtract it from the total protection. This would also make it so that there was community drive to protect people like smiths or builders as they would naturally spend the most time in a town; and loosing too many of those costs you the town until you can reclaim it.

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the first thing to be changed, that also was mentioned, no more free food on revive! I hate when ppl entirely stop to produce food just cause they can sucide a few meters next to a bed.

There should be a minimum food you get when you die so you have a chance to start at a map, else if you die from starving you got no way to keep playing etc. But i think that will be massivly influenced by the food/health thing you will newly introduce to the game.

Maybe also as suggested a debuff on block breaking rate for a few minutes.

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So far, I like ECC's Idea best.

p.s. ECC, what I'm getting from your post is after x amount of time without looting, the loot-able body becomes a zombie? Seems legit.

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I would like to put the focus on when the player dies, not after they die.

First and formost, ask the question: what happens to the player?

In vanilla, they disappear entirely, dropping some items. Its obviously not a big deal because I have watched players suicide constantly rather then starve.

In TFC I would change this. Death of a player would leave a lootable body, one that lasts for an unlimited time and acts like a chest. Now, for those paying attention, this is in effect a wonderful BUFF. so lets talk debuffs.

Dead bodies are interesting things. Very interesting. Dont understand what Im saying? Well, you should ask that creeper that just happened to pop up nearby. Mhhm, yeah, I think you get it, dead bodies allow mobs to spawn ignoring any conditions(other then lighting)

Uhhg, battlefields. Wonderful things, your always tripping over the dead. Oh yeah, thats what im saying. Bodies have mass and volume. They get in the way, slow you down, and if your swinging an axe, often can get hit. Because they are dead, they are not going to just poof away, no no, they are going to stay there and continue to annoy you. You should consider burring them soon, because:

as the lore go's, the dead make poor company. Ask any gamer worth his/her joystick(no, not THAT joystick. -.-). If something is dead, its liable TO COME BACK. Yep, this is a gamers world, and in this world, the dead dont die. They come back and bring you into the light. So, that dead body your using to store all that wonderful gear cause you dont want to waste wood has decided to go mimic on your ass and wants a bite. oh and for those wondering, no, these are not your oldschool zeds who dont have a brain and move ass effing slow, these are zeds that open doors, run at a sprint, and will pick up a bow and shoot you in the knee. Oh and because these zeds are still dead, they have that wonderful little habit of bringing guests. More the merrier, right? Right?

New mob introduced:

Dead player: Inf Health, 0 damage, can only be removed from world by Looting. Skin used: uses the same skin as the player(works just like the player head item in 1.4), spawns mobs around it.

Player Zombie. 80 health, 18 damage, speed of sprinting player, opens doors, picks up items, eats your face. Skin used: uses the same skin as the player(works just like the player head item in 1.4), spawns mobs around it. drops ONLY equipped items

sounds sooooooooooooooooooooo fun!
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I thought about this "ban idea" for smp and got a idea for singleplayer.

What if the death of your character would mean that he has to regenerate (kind of the crippling idea from before) but as player you would simply have to wait (one/two days, hours, depending on the difficulty (should be choosen before starting the game).

So you simply can't play with this character in this world, untill a certain amount of real life time has passed.

The point is: you would have to be carefull all the time, because if you die, you get a time-out.

While this may seem somewhat ironic at first, it would mean that you have to play way more concentrated.

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I think we are looking at it in the wrong way. The problem is that people kill themselves, because it is the easier way out. So first, we got to ask ourself the following question: why do we kill ourselves? To get the hunger bar filled, you say? Well, what about we make it so that the hunger bar won't reset after you die. Together with this change should come another change; starving won't get you killed anymore. Instead, it should have other effects on your health. Effects that can't be cured, unless you eat food! You can die all you want, but you will still live with those effects unless you eat something.

I think the effects should get more severe after time. Maybe the effects could already start even if your hunger bar isn't fully drained. If you think about it, Minecraft already has effects like this. The ability to sprint, for example, is linked to the hunger bar. Not really severe, but it already kicks in even if you hunger bar isn't fully drained. The next step could be not being able to jump as high as you could before. After that, it will take longer to break blocks. Ultimately, the effects of starving should be so severe that you just can't really play anymore. Or at least it should be really annoying to play with those effects.

It should take a long while before the really severe effects kick in, though. It could be that because of the effects, you won't be able to get food anymore, because you just don't have enough energy. For example, your chest could be on a place you can't reach because of your reduced jumping ability (it is just an example, I know reducing the jumping ability doesn't make sense because you can only jump 1 high. If you can't even do that, you can only go down unless there are slabs/stairs somewhere. On the other hand, maybe this gives some use to slabs/stairs. It would be a requirement to make your base "weelchair accessible".). In the end, you should always be able to get food, however long it will take. In SMP it would be easier; someone could feed you. If you are on your own, you may have a harder time reviving.

I'm not really a Minecraft/TFC veteran. I'm just using logical thinking here. I don't think I am the right person to come up with examples for the effects, but I made a list of possible effects anyway. Not every effect will kick in as quick as the other. You will only experience some effects after a really long time without food in your belly.

- No sprinting

- Takes longer to break blocks

- Not being able to break certain blocks anymore (stone?)

- Slower restore from using an item (example; you would only be able to swing your sword once every two seconds)

- Can't throw javelins as far (also bows won't shoot as far)

- Blurred vision (it will get more severe after time, to a point it will be really annoying)

- You can take and deal less damage

- You won't be able to swim anymore (good luck getting across that river)

Note that these are just ideas. Some of them are probably a really bad idea, and won't fit into TFC at all. Also, I assume that people that kill themselves because of starving is the only reason people kill themselves. This might not be the case. Someone might kill himself to get back to the spawn. A solution for that would be to not have a spawn. You would just respawn on the place you died. Or maybe in a random place (not totally random, but in a radius of x blocks of the original spawn OR the place you died). People are using Rei's Minimap anyway, so getting back to your base isn't going to be too hard.

However, I do feel that a death penalty isn't a good idea. Instead, we should change the game mechanics so, that death won't be the easiest way out.

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the big issue with respawn debuffs is it HARMS Multi-gameplay. Take for example a Role play server or a large PVP server. In the RP server, death means you need to make a new character. that in its self is a pain, but perfectly acceptable on that type of server. Now, on the PVP server, you die, lose your gear to the winner. Alright, fine, thats how its done. adding debuffs to ether of these causes newly spawned characters to have issues. in RP, you respawn as a weaker character liable to not survive the first day(via starving, a 'bandit' player, etc). In an PVP server, you respawn already without your hard earned red steel armor, and with debuffs you cant even RUN from the guy whos killing you mercilessly. My vote on player debuffs is a solid no under the premise of gameplay concerns. Death area debuffs(like what I mentioned in my previous post) add the challenge of going back for your gear, but dont hurt a players ability to actually go for the gear(unless they REALLY suck at pve...)

on concerns over mob limits(greifers abusing the mechanic to lag server/people) I suggest to add a limit per chunk of how many 'player' mobs there can be. 5 per chunk is not unreasonable?(more then this number causes newly perished players to have a vanilla type death?)

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I also like the idea of dinamic health pool that increases with days, using the bed, or eating. And resets to a minimum or default everytime you die.

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I think returning from the dead should be rough on the mind, body and possibly the soul. When you DIE, your stuff should be gone, none of this mamby, pamby drop to the ground stuff. Probably looters took it. You should also return fairly weak, 2 hearts left on the meter at most, and just enough hunger bar to keep you from starving right away. Rising from the dead is strenuous on the body, so you should have some form of weakness debuff/s as well. The only way to get out of this state quickly, then, would be to have a farm and food saved up so it would be beneficial to use the agriculture system as soon as you start the game. The weakness debuff/s might start low (2 mins), but last longer every time you die with it attached to you, forcing you to fill your hunger bar as soon as possible, so that you aren't crippled for too long, and milk should not cure it i.e. once you get it, you should be stuck with it until it goes away via the timer attached to it.

This would be potentially, incredibly dangerous to anyone who suffers the fate of death, without preventing them the means to keep it under control provided they get to work ASAP on insuring their continued survival, as it should be.

Also, first post here. Long time lurker, and user, of TFC. Love this mod Bioxx, please keep up the good work.

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I fist want to say that this "death timer" or "death ban" mechanic that people seem to be talking about a lot these days is a terrible mechanic.

Why do we play games? We play games for entertainment.

Is being locked out of your game because you accidently fell off a cliff 20 minutes into your play session entertaining? No, rather it's quite the opposite; frustrating.

I believe the death of your character should be a major setback in the universe of minecraft, not the universe your keyboard and chair exists in. The "Death ban" is a lazy attempt to create artificial difficulty.

With that being said and out of the way, I'm going to suggest a bleed/injury mechanic just like some of the previous posters, but in my own words of course.

-Add some injury types and severities that occur under certain or various conditions.

--Ex 1: Hit by an arrow, or cut with a sword causes bleeding which will tick your health down, ignoring regeneration due to full hunger.

Continuing to get hit by sharp things will increase the severity of the bleed.

--Ex 2: Fall/Impact injuries. If you fall from 4-6 blocks you could sprain your ankle, removing your ability to sprint. Fall more than 7 blocks and you

risk breaking a leg that not only removes your ability to sprint, but also slows movement speed to 40% of normal on top of causing you to bleed.

-Add a new paperdoll UI element that indicates these injuries to your character. Injury severity could be indicated by colour coded head/torso/leg regions: Green = healthy,Yellow is impaired, and Red = wounded. This could also be adapted to convey information about hyper/hypothermia if such features are added in the future.

-First Aid: Bandages and splints to heal wounds over time. Painkillers (made from willow bark/leaves) could be used to temporarily reduce injury effects with diminishing returns (mostly to give you time to get home and tend your wounds).

--Bandages and splint items would be worn in armor slots. Bleeding could be healed over a game-day or two, while in order to heal a broken leg a splint

must be equipped for a full game-month. These items would be depleted once the injury is healed.

-Deaths could be addressed by applying numerous injuries to the character after respawn.

--The character would have to spend an entire game-month "healing" and avoiding all contact with hostiles.

--Hunger could deplete much faster than normal while injured, requiring you to use up extra food. This, with injury debuffs would completely negate suicide

to fill your hunger bar

--I'm not sure if it's possible to dynamically reduce the amount of items/weight you could carry but it would be an interesting way to hinder gameplay such

as mining, foresting and farming until you heal in full.

Welp, this is all I could spew out before running out to do errands. I look forward to reading more/different solutions.

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After reading some of the other posts, I'm ammending my suggestion. Hunger shouldn't change when you die (you die with no food, you revive with no food) also when you revive it should be with half-a-heart. You shouldn't be able to die from hunger; however, it should act like poison and bring you down to half-a-heart. Hope your respawn point is safe and has food for you.

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After reading some of the other posts, I'm ammending my suggestion. Hunger shouldn't change when you die (you die with no food, you revive with no food) also when you revive it should be with half-a-heart. You shouldn't be able to die from hunger; however, it should act like poison and bring you down to half-a-heart. Hope your respawn point is safe and has food for you.

Exactly what I was thinking, only then a little more extensive (see previous page). In a way, starving bringing you down to half-a-heart is also an effect.

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here are some ideas for the health pool.

1. first of all Blood should be added in TFC. and when the player gets hit he loses blood. and there should be a blood meter That tells the player how much blood he has left of course, and maximum blood should be at least 15000 and one hit would remove 1.000 blood and he will start bleeding and lose 50 blood per second. So for example: hitting the player in his legs will not cause a lot of bleeding damage but the player will suffer from the Broken leg debuff of slowness for short and when a player hits another player in the arms he wont bleed a lot, his mining speed decreases and also his hit speed decreases, meaning he wont be able to swing his sword as fast as he normally would. and when he gets hit in the torso he will suffer from a lot of bleeding damage. so basically hitiing a player in certain areas like the leg or arms or torso will cause different debuffs and will die sooner or later.

2.Disease. what disease does is that when the player doesn't treat his wounds his risk of infection will increase significantly and will cause nausea for the player or will weaken his bones so that his bones would break easier or maybe suffer from malaria if the player lives in a swampy region. and what will malaria do is cause blurry vision for 5 minutes or so or temporarily cause blindness and if he doesn't get cured he ill die instantly.

3.New heart system:when a player dies he will lose 1 heart per death and when he dies he will have to wait for at least 3o minutes (Not in-game) for his heart to be restored but the player will not lose all his hearts. he will have only 1 heart left for example: if a player died 10 times he will still have 1 heart left and it will never go away. also eating certain types of food would be able to speed up the heart restoration time by at least 10 minutes.

4.Medicine:what will medicine to is to simply cure a player from an infection or to heal a wound. but the cure will take affect after 5 in-game days to cure the person completely, and in those 5 Days the disease or wound will slowly reduce its effects on the player. For example:if you suffer from a broken leg bone and then you healed the wound, within 5 days your movement speed will slowly go back to normal

i also suggest adding a thirst bar and stamina bar.

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