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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Bioxx

Official Death Penalty Discussion

262 posts in this topic

I'm for experience but only for the use in a single area (preferably enchanting or brewing or something magic-ish). We have said from the beginning we want all physical traits to be with Steve and all mental traits to be with the player therefore the "experience" should not exist in anymore than the players mind and should only exist to better teach players how to play not teach Steve how to play.

My suggestions for experience have been all toward physical traits: increasing health, breathing time underwater, movement speed, and so forth. No limits on, for example, what can be crafted. Is that acceptable?

The reason I am pushing experience is just one thing: simplicity. Pretty much every other proposal I've seen requires different special cases and complex rules. But if someone else can solve the issue of death as simply I'd be perfectly happy with it.

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I understand your point but a general experience system will not fix that. The player should learn the best way to do things and should get a boost from the players "experience". A could live with an increase in strength or speed or stamina overtime but those shouldn't be based on experience point just on how much you run or jump or whatever. I think this is similar to what you are thinking and definitely make people dissapointed if they lost their strength they had worked so hard to achieve.

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A could live with an increase in strength or speed or stamina overtime but those shouldn't be based on experience point just on how much you run or jump or whatever.

There are some pros and cons as I discussed above. I would support such a system.

Another thing I have previously supported is removing "ownership" - e.g. losing control of your pets and such (you're not the same person after all). I like it because you can recover ownership but will have to do some work. But I don't think that's a big enough part of TFC to stand on its own. Maybe in the future with the "Kingdoms" changes.

I don't really care that much about the particular solution, as long as it isn't too harsh.

Regarding being incapacitated rather than killed, maybe having the player be transported back to their bed on revival would make it more workable. They could have some sort of injury that would be an annoying penalty and somewhat difficult to recover (perhaps a minimum amount of time needed also). Could be random: for example, you might have "broken leg" (can't sprint, slower speed), or "wounded" (half usual maximum health). Not as realistic of course. Still has a problem if the player died very near their bed (e.g. "hey, I'm still surrounded by zombies but now I'm also injured"). Also, if there is a point at which they truly die what is the penalty? Should they truly die, or only be injured to a maximum amount?

Does that seem in line with your thinking? (sorry there have been a bunch of different posts and I'm forgetting if you've suggested this before)

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...

I'm for experience but only for the use in a single area (preferably enchanting or brewing or something magic-ish). We have said from the beginning we want all physical traits to be with Steve and all mental traits to be with the player therefore the "experience" should not exist in anymore than the players mind and should only exist to better teach players how to play not teach Steve how to play.

...

I have just decided to call xp spirit, something collected from the enemies that can be used to enchant things, that makes sense, but now with mining xp in vanilla it's a little odd.

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I agree Xp needs a new name.

Ownership of pets I wouldn't mind at first I thought you meant properties like land but ya pets makes sense although thats not really a big enough change to effect that much and i'm not really against it or for it.

The point of incapicitation is so people can move them around not just the punishment of sitting there watching. I do like random injuries after incapicitation as it means people would require medical attention this means that medics would need to exist adding another profession. Another thing, my problem with teleportation after incapicitation isn't that it could put people in trouble its the fact that it takes people out of trouble. This includes greifers for the most part, but also the fact that some warriors may return to battle if we had taken them out of action this wouldn't be possible.

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I think you could remove the whole spawn point thing and make it so every time your die your spawn point moves from it's originally position 500-1000 blocks away in a random direction. This makes beds only useful for actually sleeping, though.

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Fancy that a bed for sleeping in. I definitely could live with that except for the fact that I would be so utterly lost, I would probably just start a new world. Plus, it makes no sense, if this were added as a side-effect of drinking too much beer or wine or mead than that would be great.

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A new underlying stat (sort of like saturation for hunger) would be "general health" versus the visible "health points". This has been suggested before, but always with other things added on that aren't that needed for a simple system.

General health is a pool that can be capped out at 1000, starting a fresh game with a new character starts you at 500 general health.

At maxed points you would receive 25% faster heal rate, 20% faster sprint, and 3 extra breath bubbles.

At at 90-100% you have max current stats. each 10% threshold below that removes half a heart/drumstick/air bubble, till you effectively have half stats at 0% general health. This means even after starving for a crazy long time and dying several times, the game is still playable, there's just a penalty for consistently playing badly. On the flipside, those who prepare, keep healthy and survive well will get a nice bonus.

General health would be promoted in several ways:

- Keeping fatigue above a certain point by eating food, like > 80%, would promote a gradual addition to general health. +1 per minute

- Eating high content food (3 or more drumsticks) would give a slight boost to general health. (aka bonus for meats and, hopefully eventually, prepared foods) +5 each

- Don't get injured for extended periods of time, kicks in after 5 minutes of not getting injured, but isn't turned off until taking at least 1 heart of damage so you're not punished for walking over floating dirt or a single small jump that's just a bit too far. +1 per minute

- Sleeping in a bed at night would give either a flat bonus if you fastforward to day or a gradual bonus if you just hang in bed like on SMP. +10 for fast forward, +1 per minute for simply "resting" at night while on SMP.

General health would be detracted from by the following:

- Taking damage also damages your general health, at 1 point per half heart lost. This means consistently going out and getting your body torn apart will gradually harm your health.

- Having < 20% of your hunger bar left will start to decrease your general health. -1 per minute

- Starving (no hunger bar left) will only take you to half of your max health, but your general health will start decreasing rapidly. -10 per minute.

- Drowning, poison, and fire causes you to lose 1 point of general health per half heart lost in addition to the point lost due to loss of health.

- Death cuts your general health in half. Meaning you technically start from ground zero in regards to general health if you die while at max general health. If you just started and you die, you're general health would be 250, still livable but not game over. This would mean the initial death would always suck the worst and subsequent deaths, while bad, won't cause you to become exponentially worse.

I think this gives a viable reason to live a healthy life, survive well, be cautious, eat good and prepared food, and in general avoid setting yourself on fire.

TLDR: Hobbits have stolen the precious and are currently roflcoptering their way into Mordor due to not being able to simply walk into it.

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So, we're getting plenty of ideas that initially sound good, but are kinda crap.

Random respawn locations: while they may help you out of danger, (which is opposite of a penalty) you can get put into worse danger. It also makes very little sense. I've seen the idea of somebody dragged you their, but that's nonsense. Who would drag your body away from where you were incapacitated and then just leave you laying somewhere random?

Waking up from minecraft's "dream": First off, the whole dream thing is just notch being bad at making an endgame. Second, force booting somebody from the game is an inconvenience at most. And expecting them to say "well, I guess i'll just start all over from scratch again rather than keep playing on this world where I was finally getting into some higher tier ore" is kinda stupid. If they were willing to do that, they'd probably have been playing hardcore and wouldn't have needed a force boot in the first place. Makes even less sense with SMP. "Wow, I died, guess i'll never play this server again." I highly doubt anyone would do that.

Respawning on death spot with time passed: Not really a punishment, especially if you know where your house is. Overly harsh punishment if you're lost in a cave. Very bad for PVP and the time passing doesn't make sense with SMP in mind. Are all the other players going to lose that time, or is that one player going to just be locked from doing anything until time's up?

Permantent death penalties No, because if a player dies repeatedly. they'll essentially become unable to play.

Implementing a skill system: Not a bad idea really. It gives you something to lose permanently on death that can be regained with time, and if done right should be able to please everyone. Most likely it would be leveling skills based on what you do, or using xp to level up skills that you want.

Debuffs: One of the better ideas, especially if it's not a permanent debuff. Probably a random debuff that that takes a few minecraft days to disperse, representing that you are recovering from your incapacitation.

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I like idea to spawn new monsters near the die place( But: no loot from mobs or else it would be used to make mobs farm, or problem to other players if i die in ther home ). I like idea to change place of spawn, but not randomize - it will make too many problems in smp (i try to die and spawn in your home).

and I like this idea, it good chance to get tfc magic (you can make a potion from gems) I think idea with debuffs is very good.

p.s.: sorry for my bad eng, I'm rus. And bioxx if you read that Please( if it not hard) make a txt file to change names of things it would be great, I love you mod but my frends don't know eng so they don't want to play with me. I will translate names of things... this change will make your mod more popular in other countrys...

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So, we're getting plenty of ideas that initially sound good, but are kinda crap.

Random respawn locations: while they may help you out of danger, (which is opposite of a penalty) you can get put into worse danger. It also makes very little sense. I've seen the idea of somebody dragged you their, but that's nonsense. Who would drag your body away from where you were incapacitated and then just leave you laying somewhere random?

Agreed.

Waking up from minecraft's "dream": First off, the whole dream thing is just notch being bad at making an endgame. Second, force booting somebody from the game is an inconvenience at most. And expecting them to say "well, I guess i'll just start all over from scratch again rather than keep playing on this world where I was finally getting into some higher tier ore" is kinda stupid. If they were willing to do that, they'd probably have been playing hardcore and wouldn't have needed a force boot in the first place. Makes even less sense with SMP. "Wow, I died, guess i'll never play this server again." I highly doubt anyone would do that.

Its just a nice touch its not suppose to be the only penalty. I'm not expecting people to do that I'm just giving them the option (more readily I suppose). I strongly disagree that the dream was a mistake. It was probably the best idea I have ever heard of.(This is not referring to the ender dragon that is terrible) Who hasn't wanted at some time to be able to control their dreams? I know I have. The ability to do whatever I want with no story limitations whatsoever, this games possibilities are only as limited as your mind for this very reason. Explain why, you are hating on the only thing Notch has done correctly thus far?

Respawning on death spot with time passed: Not really a punishment, especially if you know where your house is. Overly harsh punishment if you're lost in a cave. Very bad for PVP and the time passing doesn't make sense with SMP in mind. Are all the other players going to lose that time, or is that one player going to just be locked from doing anything until time's up?

In SMP the player would have to wait a short amount of time. In the mean time his/her body just lies there. The player can only helpless watch as someone else could drag them away or kill them completely.

Permantent death penalties No, because if a player dies repeatedly. they'll essentially become unable to play.

Agreed

Implementing a skill system: Not a bad idea really. It gives you something to lose permanently on death that can be regained with time, and if done right should be able to please everyone. Most likely it would be leveling skills based on what you do, or using xp to level up skills that you want.

No RPG, this is not and will not be an RPG Bioxx has already said this multiple times. If experience is gained it will be by the player not by Steve.

Debuffs: One of the better ideas, especially if it's not a permanent debuff. Probably a random debuff that that takes a few minecraft days to disperse, representing that you are recovering from your incapacitation.

Agreed.

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First of, I'm not "hating" on notch. I just stated he did a pretty bad job at making an endgame, especially since nobody cares about the nonsensical wall of text that shows every time you leave the end. The only thing the end is useful for is to get endstone, a decorative egg, or nigh infinite xp.

Second, when you're playing minecraft, are you playing as steve, or are you playing as you? since there is no storyline or plot, the answer is you're playing as you, as you're not following the story of a pre-determined role. As such, skills wouldn't be an rpg element. They would be a representation of your ability to survive and prosper, simple as that. Losing said skills due to incapacitation represents an injury that you have to recover from, slowly regaining the ability to do what you once could. The fact that everyone associates skills to RPG is mostly due to the fact that not many people have used them for anything else.

Third, Minecraft just doesn't fit as a dream, and I'm sure a lot of people agree with me. Pulling an ending that says "hey, everything you've done is all a dream" never really sits well with a vast amount of gamers. Let's take super mario bros. 2 for example. After beating the last boss, you get a cutscene where mario wakes up, revealing the entire game was just a dream. You didn't save any kingdoms, or defeat any bosses. A lot of people were quite irritated by this, and plenty still remember the feeling of disappointment to this day. Minecraft's "ending" rekindles those emotions in me personally, and makes me quite depressed.

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You are comparing those two? You must be joking right? Mario ends in depression as you realize you accomplished nothing. Minecraft never ends when you are told it is a dream, you are told it isn't over, i had no depression, I personally only felt inspired to continue to dream.

You are dang right that was the worst end-game I have ever seen quite honestly. I personally could only read a little bit of the wall of text before falling asleep. This is not what I was referring to it does however prove the validity of my point. Have ever noticed that no explanation was ever given for Minecraft have you ever noticed that he tried to add things that are somewhat random? I will tell you right now sir that is a dream, no storyline and random beginning and the ability to do almost anything that our brain could comprehend. Is he lacking content? Of course! That is why we mod! To make our dream bigger and better, more connect-able. If you are depressed that you finally can dream whatever you like, for whatever purpose to gain true freedom not restricted by laws or silly physics that say you can't. We can fly! Have you never wondered what that would be like? We build to our hearts content. Have you never hoped to someday build that greatest thing in the world with ease? We fight valiant, dangerous fights. Have you never drempt of being a great invincible warrior? We can do anything and everything as long as we want to.

Although of course, I suppose you want to just do the same thing as everyone else just become a cheep graphics version of sims. Such a shame, I always loved to dream. As a wise man once said "All human beings are also dream beings. Dreaming ties all mankind together."

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i have a realy good idea that is related to the death system and also a way for the damage system to kinda work. mixes up a bit of the other suggestions in one.

this idea is actualy mainly baised off of a mod for arma 2 called ACE2 (screw DayZ i kill real (Smart AI WITH GUNS!) people)

ok so now onto the suggestion

you have a similar health pool as someone else said and a limb damage system. bebuffs when limbs get damaged ect.

when you get damaged have a high chance to bleed and be "in pain". "in pain" would also have some slight debuffs that effect your overal damage

acurecy with things and movement speed. bleed would slowly drain health from the health pool but the initial start of the bleed wont.

after reaching a certian limit on your health pool you will either pass out and fall to the ground.

SP you will wake up in a little bit (not advancing time magically but haveing to wait 30-40 sec) this time fram will allow the things that injured you

to wander away. you then are able to walk/move slowly back to a safe place and attempt to patch your self up. if you do not do that intime you will pass out again

and have a 30 sec respawn timer and a corpse will be left in the place you died. corpse acts similarly to ECC's idea.

MP you will do almost everything the same in SP but people have the choice to either kill you while your down (will get to the death penitally later) or carry

/ drag you to a safer location and heal you by treating your wounds. you will still wake up on your own but the wait time will be twice as long or double depending on the

injurry that you got incapacitated by. you can also choose to kill your self after the seacond time you pass out

and a little bit of a thing for the corpse system that was suggested for Mp is that the Ghost/Doppleganger thing that reanimates your corpse will only go after you and hunt you down

no matter how far away you are it will come looking for you. oh and your own ghost thing can only seen by you and only you can be hinderd by it

if you also get killed by something aka enviroment like lava or drowning you will instead not pass out you will die instantly. there will also be medical supplys in the game but i cant think of stuff righht now

yea sorry for all the bad spelling errors and realy realy bad grammar im preaty tierd and had to get thing thing done in a slight hurry.

i hope that any one likes my ideas.. oh and if any one has Arma2:OA and does not play DayZ much msg me and maby we can play some classic arma2

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Revivees ought to be saddled with increased mining times/reduced sprint and regen until they get specific foods in their bellies. Maybe a dish that's particularly hard to prepare, but not totally inaccessible. Alternatively, they might be able to ditch the penalties by returning to the location of their death and collecting their own skull..! ...Or some other, similar death-flag type item!

I'm not actually here.

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... screw DayZ i kill real (Smart AI WITH GUNS!) people ...

Really? How did you feel when you pulled the trigger? Did you kill him while he ate or did you wait till he finished? Did you wonder if he had a family to go home to? Did you realize he has the commitment to his reason for fighting that you do? Please refrain from using "kill real people" if you're talking about playing a game. Real soldiers carry real emotional scars from pulling that trigger. There's nothing simple about taking a life and it's not a badge for you to boost your ego with.
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Really? How did you feel when you pulled the trigger? Did you kill him while he ate or did you wait till he finished? Did you wonder if he had a family to go home to? Did you realize he has the commitment to his reason for fighting that you do? Please refrain from using "kill real people" if you're talking about playing a game. Real soldiers carry real emotional scars from pulling that trigger. There's nothing simple about taking a life and it's not a badge for you to boost your ego with.

Profound words from a wise man.
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Regarding skills

I've always kind of hated skills in games. If you do something a lot, of course you will get better. This is also the case in real life (I hate to use that word). But as bsb23 already noted, "if experience is gained it will be by the player, not by Steve." Ultimately, this is the goal when you are making a game. To make it actually require skill of the player, not just some number that goes up as you progress to the game. However, it is very hard to implement this kind of skill in a game. In the end, gaming is nothing more than pressing buttons. You can tell yourself otherwise, but you know it's true. Of course you will get better. Some games require a certain responsiveness. But few really require tactics.

There is a way in which skills as we know them from video games could be implemented into TFC. There should never, ever, ever be a number that represents the skill. The player shouldn't have to worry about the skill. In fact, you might not even notice there is a skill if you didn't read it somewhere. A skill could be mining. How good you are at mining wouldn't be decided by a number. Instead, it would be decided by a number of factors that aren't shown to the player. For example, maybe you go in the right direction a lot with the prospectors pick. Next time you use it, it gives less false negatives.

I, personally, don't want a skill system, however subtle it is. I also don't like the idea of getting an advantage if you don't starve or die for a long time. In the end, it is very similar to a skill. I stand by my original idea of tackling the problem from another angle; that whe should change the game mechanics so, that death won't be the easiest way out. Hunger shouldn't kill you, hunger shouldn't replenish when you die, and when you die you "awaken" at the same point you died, unless that is impossible (in lava for example). Also, hunger should make you mine/run slower or have other consequences.

By the way, I have to say that I love having discussions like this. It's great that Bioxx asks us for our opinion, but it's even better that we are actually able to discuss our opinions in a civilized manner. I don't think there is a "right" way to solve this problem, but whatever Bioxx decides to do I'm sure it will be a good decision. From what I understand, Bioxx wants to keep the mod unique to every player, and experience should always be gained by the player. I hope we will see those views in his final decision.

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If anything, the only thing that is close to skill system and would actually look believable would be training your(Steve's) body muscles. Training yourself to be stronger or weakening if you don't use your muscles regularly. Not sure how this will work and I think it might become too complex if we do add something like this(not even thinking about smp right now), but maybe it's something worth discussing.

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Let me clear things up about the whole 'Zed Chest' I proposed

-Server config for toggling on/off(default on)

-Server config for chests per chunk(default 5)

--This would count Zeds and Chests, to prevent issues.

-Server config for chest timer(default 280(5 min)

--This option handles how long before zed chests have a chance to turn into a zed.

-Server config for zed chance(default 75(%)

--This is the chance for a zed chest to turn into a zed when a tick checks the chest

-Server config for check rate(default 140(2 min, 30 sec)

-Server config for zed despawn toggling on/off(default off)

--This allows vanilla despawn conditions for the zed.

-Server config for zed chest despawn toggling on/off(default off)

--This allows vanilla despawn conditions for the zed chest.

-Server option for allowing zeds to use wooden doors on/off(default on)

-Server option for zed health(default 40(20 hearts)

-Server option for zed attack(default 19(9.5 hearts)

-Server option for zed chest spawn on/off(default on)

--This option toggles whether or not hostile mobs spawn around it

-Server option for zed spawn on/off(default on)

--This option toggles whether or not hostile mobs spawn around it

-Server option for zed drops on/off(default on)

--This option toggles on/off zed inv drops if it dies or despawns

what this allows: Full customization INCLUDING the ability to turn it off. you can if you wanted to set it so it would not have a harsh effect on your system. It also allows harsh death penalties(instant item despawn on death)

also, for those STILL going for the death debuffs: Debuffs ALWAYS(unless you spend a in game year building massive subways with enough lighting to warrant sunglasses) create a Rut effect. All possible debuffs can and will. this includes food. For once imagine if it were to happen to you when you died with steel tools. You know your 4 minutes away from where you died, but beause of all thease death weaknesses, you CANT make it.(slowness makes it take too long, weakness confronts you with something you cant fight, blindness/nausea makes movement(without a pre built path) nearly impossible, etc.

Anything that happens should be done to all lives and never hurt newly spawned. All people should start the same as always, and the only things that happen later though their attempts at survival should kill them

I do however support a 3 second blindness effect(the whole just waking up deal ;D)

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The new changelog update shows a spawn protector. Should be awesome!

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You are comparing those two? You must be joking right? Mario ends in depression as you realize you accomplished nothing. Minecraft never ends when you are told it is a dream, you are told it isn't over, i had no depression, I personally only felt inspired to continue to dream.

You are dang right that was the worst end-game I have ever seen quite honestly. I personally could only read a little bit of the wall of text before falling asleep. This is not what I was referring to it does however prove the validity of my point. Have ever noticed that no explanation was ever given for Minecraft have you ever noticed that he tried to add things that are somewhat random? I will tell you right now sir that is a dream, no storyline and random beginning and the ability to do almost anything that our brain could comprehend. Is he lacking content? Of course! That is why we mod! To make our dream bigger and better, more connect-able. If you are depressed that you finally can dream whatever you like, for whatever purpose to gain true freedom not restricted by laws or silly physics that say you can't. We can fly! Have you never wondered what that would be like? We build to our hearts content. Have you never hoped to someday build that greatest thing in the world with ease? We fight valiant, dangerous fights. Have you never drempt of being a great invincible warrior? We can do anything and everything as long as we want to.

Although of course, I suppose you want to just do the same thing as everyone else just become a cheep graphics version of sims. Such a shame, I always loved to dream. As a wise man once said "All human beings are also dream beings. Dreaming ties all mankind together."

You asked me to explain my opinion on why I dislike the dream idea, which I did. There's no need to berate me over my opinion, so would you drop the dream thing already? This isn't the forum that it should be talked about in. We're here to talk about how to handle player deaths.

Personally, i'm in favor of a skill system still. I'm not talking about things like "You've levelled up, choose whether you want to blow a hole in a mountain with a pick swing, or slice ten zombies in half with a single swing of your sword." I'm talking more about things like, "You've dug 400 blocks, you can dig easier now," or something like that. The reason I'm in favor of it is because would make death have a lasting impact. However, the death debuff is what I think is more likely to become implemented than any other suggestion so far.

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A death penalty is a generally bad approach. Instead remove the death benifits like full health, full hunger, teleport home. Make respawn happen with 2 hearts of hp and 1 meat worth of hunger. Also a configurable death spawn location that is within 100-200 blocks of the death, or at a set graveyard location on servers.

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I for the most part attack only your ideas and if I stepped out of that insulted you directly, I apologize, I meant no harm. This does have relevance however as it will determine whether or not my previous ideas made sense. The exit world on death, reappear in your past kind of thing(for those of you who haven't read it, I just mean a previous position, you would not have any of your gear and would need to be on the surface.)

Alright now onto skills everyone has more or less the same opinion, no leveling up, XP is stupid in vanilla bla bla bla. I only see one argument and that is should your strength increase with work, speed increase with running and so forth. On one hand it is a little RPG-ish but we also decided that physical things would be dealt with through Steve. Strength is a physical trait, but does that count as something truly physical?

We need to stay simple with death debuff, I vote what Jasnatdic said. Although if physical traits were added some loss of strength would make sense.

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I think in a game like minecraft the only strength the player has are things they have gathered in the game. This could be things like armor or weapons that the player made, or a wall that keeps out monsters. Without those things, the player is weak.

Similarly, I think the punishment should be to the world that made the player strong. The player losing all of their items is a good example of a punishment following this idea.

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