Official Death Penalty Discussion

[warfighter67 124]

I think the only additional thing that should happen is that you respawn with your hunger what it was when you died, and you spawn where you died. Bioxx mainly implemented this to stop people from suiciding to reset hunger and get out of dangerous situations.

My suggestion also has a benefit, however:

When you die, if you respawn in the same place you died, it makes dying on loooong trips much easier to handle.

[Ditto8353 202]

I think the only additional thing that should happen is that you respawn with your hunger what it was when you died, and you spawn where you died. Bioxx mainly implemented this to stop people from suiciding to reset hunger and get out of dangerous situations.

My suggestion also has a benefit, however:

When you die, if you respawn in the same place you died, it makes dying on loooong trips much easier to handle.

Lava, Drowning in deep ocean, Suffocating

All cause problems which must be handled. Each situation could be handles separately, but I think it would be better to have death, no matter the cause, always behave the same way.

[Graknorke 1]

you spawn where you died.

Lava deaths/dungeons.

You would never be able to get out.

[Ryuugumo 88]

Question, has anybody actually tried the system Bioxx has put in or are you just talking about what he should do instead without trying what he's done?

[warfighter67 124]

My bad. Let me revise my suggestion.

You spawn in the closest valid location where you died.

ie, not in lava.

As for the dungeon/cave thing, i dont have a good idea for that.

[Ditto8353 202]

I have a feeling that the devs have thought about these options before.

Why would I care about dying if I just respawn in the same place?

Without a penalty for death, it no longer becomes a motivation and is no longer a relevant mechanic in the game.

[renadi 258]

The selling point for me was 'this is harder, and challenges you more then VMC.' Not 'Oh hey, I know you died n stuff, but we are going to make it impossible to try and live again'

Nobody is proposing a game where it's impossible to play after dying, at absolute worst you're always allowed to start a new game.

There's no such thing as challenge if you don't suffer for your mistakes, dying is a fairly large mistake in most places.

[Graknorke 1]

Question, has anybody actually tried the system Bioxx has put in or are you just talking about what he should do instead without trying what he's done?

There's a death penalty system in?

As far as I know, there's just a bug where you can't respawn.

[Menoch 335]

If there are "permanent" penalties, then there should be a way to reverse them.

[1.3.1] Fear Death v1 [Player API]

The effects of death are ultimately reversible unless PermaDeath is enforced. Therefore "Permanent" penalties aren't really permanent. While I have to say that I disagree wholeheartedly with PermaDeath, the fact that a player should lose something permanently would definitely put the survival feeling into the game. So what to do? Take away his or her favorite mob basher? Rend from them their prized +10 EnderPearls Breast Plate of Fondu Dipping?

So this post I guess is an idea wrapped in a suggestion sprinkled with hope...

One thing that has bugged me in MC is the lack of use of XP orbs. All mobs drop the chimey little orbs when they die, and the glowing little things seemingly have a mind of their own as they roll and/or float upwards towards you.

TFC has so much going for it in the way of activities, time consuming crafts, and hunting/foraging, that making that time and XP precious could be the key.

Traits or skills can be used to increase the productivity with tools, firepits, Bloomeries, skinning animals, cooking, magic and alchemy, efficiency with weapons (maybe make aiming with a bow shakey for a noob and not only precise but zoom farther for a marksman..., etc), and even effecting what you can and can not harvest.... yadda yadda yadda. If this is somehow implemented, the loss of trait levels on death would be a strait kick to the HooHa's!

If you kicked ass hunting and gathering xp orbs so you could reach a trait level that lets you work Black Steel, I'm willing to bet the baby's diapers that one would think twice before charging headlong into some old ruins, or launching oneself off a cliff because his belly is a-rumblin'. Especially if after losing a level or levels in all traits now makes it impossible to use that armor/gather that resource/use that weapon, harvest that crop... etc...

Taking away something that is utterly important to a player puts them in the position to actually use their noodle and make calculated decisions. You could take items away, or make armor suffer 50% of current durability across the board, so on and so forth. But taking away the ability to use something you have worked hard for is an eye opener. Again, this wouldn't be a "Permanent" loss, as the player could reinvest further xp orbs into the trait(s) he/she lost levels in. But it not only makes the traits very important, but all of those XP orbs that burst out of you that aren't yet invested are ultimately a loss of time.

So if little Johnny wants to cast himself into the voids of the Nether cuz he is hungry, that's fine. Have fun little Johnny, cuz you will have a hard time facing the night with a cloth bib and wooden sword! LOL.

On another note. I absolutely love the idea of losing Protection time in your domicile, making baddies pop in unannounced. That is fiendish!

Ok. I am done rambling... for now.

Menoch

[warfighter67 124]

snip

[Menoch 335]

HAHAHAHA!!! Because only cool people are devs.

[transcengopher 349]

Traits or skills can be used to increase the productivity with tools, firepits, Bloomeries, skinning animals, cooking, magic and alchemy, efficiency with weapons (maybe make aiming with a bow shakey for a noob and not only precise but zoom farther for a marksman..., etc)

Yes, okay. But.

and even effecting what you can and can not harvest.... yadda yadda yadda.

Why am I suddenly not able to pick this flower? Where's the sense in that?

If you kicked ass hunting and gathering xp orbs so you could reach a trait level that lets you work Black Steel

How killing zombies helps me to smith steel picks? Or wearing this chestplate?

[Menoch 335]

Yes, okay. But.

Why am I suddenly not able to pick this flower? Where's the sense in that?

How killing zombies helps me to smith steel picks? Or wearing this chestplate?

1). When is the last time you went underground and mined ore and smelted it into Iron? I know I never have. In fact I wouldn't know the first thing about it. Picking flowers is nice too, but have you ever harvested Hemlock? In what part of the plant would you get the seeds from? You can actually eat a puffer fish... but if you dont know what you are doing you could poison yourself and die. Death is something you or I have not experienced. Otherwise we wouldn't be conversing in this forum . But I would say, for arguments sake, that in a "make believe world" Death should be a (no pun intended) life altering experience. With each death, a part of your memory is lost.

I once knew a boy named Hans when I was a child who was a boy scout. He was hit by a car crossing a street in Red Hook NY and it was so bad, he had to learn to speak again, walk again, feed himself, and learn who he and his mother and father were. He didn't die. But it was like he started all over again. Not to be morbid, but you see where I am going with this?

2). Killing zombies is something we see in movies and in video games because, well let's face it, it is not an activity we partake in going to Walmart. Thusly part of this game, which is in fact fantasy. Why is killing any creature in any game going to put more blood in anyone's body (HP) so they can take more of a beating? You lose a lung you lose a lung. I bet it cuts your smoking in half regardless your level.

However. Donning a set of Leather Breeches and Hide Tunic and bracers (real ones) is going to alter the way you move, walk, and swing a baseball bat.

Now imaging a full set of plate armor. Ever been on the back of a Nisean Horse in metal armor? I would have trouble soiling myself properly in a set of plate armor honestly. It takes work, study, and dedication to not just wear a set of armor, but acclimating oneself to use it in combat (balance, stepping, etc...)

This is a game. And what is "learned" in the game is fantasy. See 1).

So it wouldn't be just "forgetting how to pick a flower" per say, but appreciating its color, fragrance and essence as if you are seeing it for the first time even though you may have picked it a hundred times, and being able to preserve it long enough to get any value out of it.

[redundantusage 330]

I have similar problems with the idea of common XP translating to generalized ability. Killing a zombie shouldn't give me the ability to work steel. That said, an obvious workaround to that is specialized XP where doing a specific action will unlock higher tier ability in that field, like working with copper for so long eventually leads to understanding bronze.

All of that said, I've seen this idea shot down before, might not have been by the devs, can't remember, but something about people wanting the game based on their own experience as if they were Steve or something to that effect.

[Androyed 26]

smart text

Are you a genius?

[Menoch 335]

I have similar problems with the idea of common XP translating to generalized ability. Killing a zombie shouldn't give me the ability to work steel. That said, an obvious workaround to that is specialized XP where doing a specific action will unlock higher tier ability in that field, like working with copper for so long eventually leads to understanding bronze.

All of that said, I've seen this idea shot down before, might not have been by the devs, can't remember, but something about people wanting the game based on their own experience as if they were Steve or something to that effect.

Your point is understood.

But on that note, killing zombies also shouldn't give you the ability to enchant items either, but that is basically all XP orbs are used for. Specialized XP is something that would ROCK! But it would probably be a facet more targeted towards the hardcore RPG gamer. A generalized pool of XP from which you could allocate points into the varying "tiered skills" would probably be a little easier on the casual gamer. But heck, don't get me wrong, I am all for becoming a better hunter if you are killing Cows and Chickens.. a better miner and blacksmith if you are doing that more, etc...

Word.

[redundantusage 330]

Yeah, vanilla minecraft's system for XP use is probably one of the worst ones I've seen. I'm pretty sure they just wanted to add experience and then once they had, realized they didn't have anything to apply it to and just threw something together.

[renadi 258]

Yeah, vanilla minecraft's system for XP use is probably one of the worst ones I've seen. I'm pretty sure they just wanted to add experience and then once they had, realized they didn't have anything to apply it to and just threw something together.

I think it's one of the better uses of it honestly, I think of killing an enemy like using soul trap on something in The Elder Scrolls, you steal their life energy which can then be used for magic and stuff.

[LordOfWolves 514]

I think it's one of the better uses of it honestly, I think of killing an enemy like using soul trap on something in The Elder Scrolls, you steal their life energy which can then be used for magic and stuff.

An use for the gems. This can become interesting...

[Menoch 335]

Yeah, vanilla minecraft's system for XP use is probably one of the worst ones I've seen. I'm pretty sure they just wanted to add experience and then once they had, realized they didn't have anything to apply it to and just threw something together.

Agreed. I had hoped they were going to start utilizing it more when they added the more XP from mining shmeal.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Agreed. I had hoped they were going to start utilizing it more when they added the more XP from mining shmeal.

Technically, they did give it more use... but, repairing/combining two tools with XP? really? using it to enchant at least makes a little more sense (what if those XP orbs are shards of that mob's soul, or that ore's soul?... makes little sense, but still makes sense

[redundantusage 330]

I'd say call it what it actually is then. That's not experience, that's magical energy. Absorbing their essence after you kill them, I get that. Calling it experience and then using said experience to perform magic that drains you of said experience, just doesn't make as much sense to me.

[renadi 258]

No, but neither does it make any sense in D&D which is the first place I've seen the idea, and it's clear there that it isn't just the captured souls of enemies, here at least you can force a reasoning out of it.

[bsb23 303]

At one point I thought Bioxx had said no RPG elements and although there has been a recent change in that I'm standing firm on it until I'm told this mod is changing. The problem with XP like this is once more just believability and thats about it. If we were trying to appease only casual gamers than this should stay but that isn't the way this mod was made. A several XP system would be nice it doesn't have to be anything complicated or confusing just something simple aka the more you jump the better at jumping you are.

no "spending" no "collecting" no "farming" just believability. Sorry for the late response.

I agree we need to change the name, and I agree gems need a use. There is kind of two options here, remove xp and have no uses for gems or gems could store/manipulate the energy to do various things. Take your pick.

[renadi 258]

At one point I thought Bioxx had said no RPG elements and although there has been a recent change in that I'm standing firm on it until I'm told this mod is changing. The problem with XP like this is once more just believability and thats about it. If we were trying to appease only casual gamers than this should stay but that isn't the way this mod was made. A several XP system would be nice it doesn't have to be anything complicated or confusing just something simple aka the more you jump the better at jumping you are.

no "spending" no "collecting" no "farming" just believability. Sorry for the late response.

I agree we need to change the name, and I agree gems need a use. There is kind of two options here, remove xp and have no uses for gems or gems could store/manipulate the energy to do various things. Take your pick.

Number two number two!!!

That's really all I've ever wanted! lol

Edit: Double quote double quote.

Edited 31 Oct 2012 by renadi