Dynamic Inventory Size [Better Wall of Text]

[ECC 508]

'to make two slots inventory, for what ever period of time, you would have to change the entire game, and for that instead of moding you might as well make it from scratch.'

No. Core class's will get changed, but not the entire game. On that point however, realize what TFC is. TFC is a total conversion mod that only uses minecraft for both its user base and a fairly well established gaming engine.

the smallest you can change the hotbar to is 3. you need at least three slots to craft a crafting bench and from there you can craft your next stage of necessities.

[bsb23 303]

Pakislav

Going for insults really makes you look mature.

You won't listen to any kind of reason, so I would advise you to start a new world and use only two hotbar slots.

When you'll stop raging about how unplayable that is, and after you've consulted your psychatrist about your anger management issues, come back for your second attempt at being an adult.

You are a funny guy you know that, I am honestly quite even tempered except when people don't read things or attempt to ignore them. You sir are blatenly ignoring my argument, all the while you have yet to provide a solid argument. You're argument is and I quote "this is unplayable" but you fail to see that you only have two slots at first or after death or once more if you are clueless.

Please, once more I beg make a valid argument that hasn't been solved already.

ECC

I cant agre with starting with oly two slots. That is physically impossible with how the game operates. However, reducing the slots WOULD NOT HURT. Reducing it to 3-5 slots may in fact provide what we are looking for.

Lets look at TFC like this: It is not minecraft, anything from minecraft is to be ignored as being minecraft and we must look at this as if TFC were a separate game.

in that context alone we suddenly come to the realization that 'perhaps its a solid mechanic'

I like the idea of changing the inv and turning it into only a few slots you build on over time, just can not come to agree with starting with only two slots. at least three are needed: Torch, Harvesting tool(pick or axe) and a weapon

Thank you for your validity and actual sense making, the first couple days could be difficult without such easy access to items, but it would only be until you could make a simple belt (hold a knife or other small tools) then we could move to animal pouches like the native Americans used then to leather working and eventually to some reinforced backpacks or something of the like.

I honestly do not plan on making this game much harder except during the first couple days, after a death (death penalty), and if you are stupid. These are not unusual ideas here.

Edits

Edit: I certainly wouldn't mind beginning with a pouch or bag though now that you say it.

Double Edit: You guys ninga'd me, but Pakislav if you want five slots feel free to craft the necessary items, no questions asked. Once more beginning with one of these tools would be fine with me.

As for the base classes lets be honest our compatibility isn't stellar anyways because of world gen. Nobody really plays TFC with anything besides the couple tweak mods anyways. To become a new game like that I would love that.

[Pakislav 120]

An argument? Why in the world would I attempt to make a solid and elaborate argument to confront something that is so obviously flawed.

Starting the game with just two slots is unplayable.

Do you imagine starting of, gathering stones and sticks, then droping them on the ground to be able to have one tool, and later throwing everything on the ground to maybe place a chest, and then to gather anything at all, run back and forth a hundred times, and if you happen to have bad luck not encountering any bag-making materials, having to endure this for how long exactly, with wild animals on your toes especially?

Already, with current expansive vanilla inventory it gets cluttered with shit very fast, having just two slots for what ever period of time, is unplayable.

And following your ridiculous logic of uber-shitty-realism, to expand the hotbar would you have us craft a batman utility belt?

You, havn't made a single argument other then "we have two hands, we can hold only two items, blargh", that would support this idea over which you seem to be ready to go on a killing spree.

So stop making this ridiculous statements about supposed others people incompetence at reading, and at least attempt making use of this skill yourself.

Starting with only full 9 slot hotbar is already pretty hardcore in itself, but not to a point of rendering the start of a new game a frustrating and pain-stackingly boring process of desperatelly shifting items.. In combination of inventory expansion throught three container tiers of a pouch, a satchel and a backpack, or any combination of the three, it works itself perfectly into the belivability of TFC while not irritating anybody with much despised forced realism.

[bsb23 303]

There we go! Don't you feel better now? I know I do. Lets start nice and easy here, just to keep things interesting. Storage piles will fix any basic problems but it would seem that crafting might be a problem, at first it would anyways, but really early game we don't use complex recipes, we use knapping and things like that. By the time we need to carry more bags and pouches will already be there and ready.

Which brings me to your next point and I can firmly say that a lack storage materials could never occur. Those animals chasing you when cornered make great bags and pouches. And if you aren't the killing type there is grass and bark and sticks all around you it may take some work but they do make nice baskets eventually.

The point of this is to avoid clutter and force organization so yeah that is intended. If you plan on looking for an easy early game you've came to the wrong place, go find EE. The early game suddenly includes much more of the struggle for life our ancestors once fought, it is now survival rather than just find a cave and live happily ever after.

[ECC 508]

'Do you imagine starting of, gathering stones and sticks, then droping them on the ground to be able to have one tool, and later throwing everything on the ground to maybe place a chest, and then to gather anything at all, run back and forth a hundred times, and if you happen to have bad luck not encountering any bag-making materials, having to endure this for how long exactly, with wild animals on your toes especially?'

that sounds almost like an introduction to an Epic(literacy term) a bard would tell

You are a lone survivor of some unknown fate lost in a strange and hostile world. Every night brings forth beasts from the deepest reaches of the evergreen forests, every night you struggle to keep your fire lit hoping it will fend off such beasts. Every day you scramble to gather more wood. In the end, you are alone in this desolate waste.

on the idea: An inventory you can expand over time is perfect. your problem in this is getting hung up over two slots. I myself call that unplayable and could not bring myself to agree to it. However, it has been agreed that a few slots, 3-5 would suffice to start players off. on that premise, this argument is over and we can settle knowing that as long as we give the user base that much they can work to continue.

'If you plan on looking for an easy early game you've came to the wrong place, go find EE.'

I dont care how long you've been in these forums, this is not how we do things. TFC is an expansion and overhaul of Vanilla and caters to the same audience while providing us with a greater challenge and depth then vanilla users are used to. Simply saying 'this is not the mod for you' is wrong as this mod can simply not be defined as such. saying that is saying 'Stop playing minecraft' because like it or not this is minecraft.

[Daaru 1]

I think a better solution to this problem is a seed pouch item that can only hold seeds but a lot of them

[bsb23 303]

My apologises, but you must understand while we would love to cater to everyone, most people our mod as a challenge or super hardcore. The focus of development thus far has been to find a balance between challenging and tedious and considering vanilla isn't even close to challenging this means things generally need to become more difficult. Its just our style, I will you though the current inventory is not at all challenging and should therefore be fixed. If he doesn't like things to get a little more difficult and require a little more time and effort to get back to normal.

It is a simple prodding method to attempt to push people onto the defensive which generally means my argument is no longer being attacked. I certainly want nobody to leave, and I know he never would but that is why it works so well.

I'm fine with three, i'll just we hold in our teeth or something, maybe under your arm.

[Pakislav 120]

"Our"?

You really have to think about what you post more carefully, and preferably take your head out of your ass.

"If he doesn't like things to get a little more difficult and require a little more time and effort to get back to normal."

What am I proposing this entire time? Maybe you should join some reading classes, I'm pretty sure they hold them for their special students at your nearest school.

"I'm fine with three, i'll just we hold in our teeth or something, maybe under your arm."

Maybe while on your way to your reading classes you should also join the army. I'm sure their army games will be realistic enough for your taste.

[Kimbblesrath 503]

Guys, please don't turn this into an argument, and that goes for both Pakislav, AND bsb.

Both of you are being *blinded* by the notion that your idea only is correct, and are not opening up to each other's ideas. While you two MAY have different opinions, let us try to keep this a friendly debate, with no insults or remarks about each other or their ideas.

We are not trying to be realistic here bsb. Pardon me if that is not your intention, but it sounds like you are suggesting we make it extremely realistic. I think 3 or 4 slots would be a good balance. AT THE BEGINNING, MIND YOU(Pakislav). You will be able to make satchels, packs, quivers, bags, and sheaths soon enough. Only the first...maybe 3 to 4 days will be like this. The inventory will expand over time with you being able to make different storage things.

Excuse me if I manage to offend anyone, but this shouldn't have to be an argument with insults flying between the two of you.

[bsb23 303]

Just a method arguing don't worry, Pakislav seems like a good guy, I just wanted to get him to talk and defend. Which he did I apologize for going too far but he simply wouldn't actually argue, now he is and I have no reason to use further insults.

Once more I'm fine with three slots. I had a coach who told me something once "It isn't about where you end up, it's how you get there" I'm sure he pulled it from a book or something but ever since I've done my best to live by that. This is one of those times.

What do I mean by that? I mean gameplay, our game here(yes Pakislav, ours not in the ownership sense but in the sense that we are a part of it, like being a citizen of somewhere "our country" it certainly isn't mine or yours but its what we are with), our game here is a wonderful thing Bioxx and Dunk are the first to make such a mod like it. This game is meant to be a challenge in every aspect not just in some areas, remember, believable?

I certainly don't want realism , if I wanted realism I would have asked for a blown weight system, the inability to carry rocks, bags only carry a little, etc. Luckily I'm not insane, I just want believable, a challenge, a journey, an adventure. Now I know I'm being dramatic here but I'm sure by now you know by now what I want and what Pakislav wants. There really isn't much more for either of us to say but I have one last arguement left to pull out so please hear me out.

One thing we have recently discussed is specialization, with the ability to control the hotbar and inventory we would begin to see a wide range of "styles" each one better adapted for their situation, think about it, maybe someone who loves exploring who pack light save some food and his trusty weapon while a blacksmith would carry the tools of his trade in his multiple belts and pockets, prepared for any situation. Or a miner carrying enough bags to lift a mountain from its roots. The list goes on about specialization and the more we have of it the better.

Pakislav, please don't attempt to make fun of the military those are brave men out their fighting for our lives and the lives of others and after I have lost a couple people who were in the military. Don't worry I promise to defend my nation with honor as they have. So enough insults I promise to argue clean if you do

[Kimbblesrath 503]

Ok bsb. It is good that that was what you meant.

[LordOfWolves 514]

"It isn't about where you end up, it's how you get there"

Yes, he probably read this somewhere, because I heard this phrase a lot of times. But, good coach the one that you had

[halfmaster1 77]

I don't get why we should have 3 or four slots. We should have a certain amount of size you can carry, not variation.

Oh, and for the seed pouch, ya, that would work great for fixing seeds, but what about every other single item in the game?

[bsb23 303]

I suppose you are right, what about that guys? You can carry a bit more than two tools worth of size to simulate the ability of two hands and a mouth being able to carry more than one thing each. I like it. We use the expandable inventory idea you had earlier. and just give the ability to carry a decent amount of resources.

[Bioxx 796]

A dynamically sized inventory is nice in theory but it would require a massive rewrite of all inventories just because of how shift clicking works in MC. Its something that I've delved into in the past and while I know of a few ways to pull it off, for the time being its off the table.

[Pakislav 120]

Both of you are being *blinded* by the notion that your idea only is correct, and are not opening up to each other's ideas.

I wasn't arguing about the idea as much as about the disrespectfull, and blind exactly, tone of bsb's posts.

Might have went about it in a wrong way, I realise that.

AT THE BEGINNING, MIND YOU(Pakislav).

Why are you pointing this out. I never had the least trouble realising that. -.-

A dynamically sized inventory is nice in theory but it would require a massive rewrite of all inventories just because of how shift clicking works in MC. Its something that I've delved into in the past and while I know of a few ways to pull it off, for the time being its off the table.

I realised that, which is partially the reason why I argued about leaving vertically dynamic inventory (Full rows of 9) out of the idea entirelly.

But as with all our suggestions we (I hope others realise this too) don't expect any of them to be implemented.

Thanks for appearing, oh Great Bioxx, to cool this thread off thought.

[ECC 508]

you know... In MC forums a dev speaking in a topic is a whole big deal. here... its 'meh, cool, now we know. Lets move on'

then... the derails.

[killster550 401]

dont forget the NPC noobs.....oh god the NPC noobs

[bsb23 303]

A dynamically sized inventory is nice in theory but it would require a massive rewrite of all inventories just because of how shift clicking works in MC. Its something that I've delved into in the past and while I know of a few ways to pull it off, for the time being its off the table.

I appreciate your comment in here and am glad you have thought about this but yeah I figured it would probably be a lot of work. Bummer that may have been cool, any news on Crysyn and his game/mod/whatever he is up to that Dunk said had an inventory system similar to the one we have previously had?

And Pakislav, no hard feelings right? Did my best to keep away from personal arguments although I clearly failed, just trying to get you to argue in a bit more depth, I suppose you could say I have succeeded in that but I recognize my failure in using "polite" or honorable tactics and hope you can forgive me there.

[weylin 36]

A completely new inventory system is probably the only way you'll be able to get features in that allow individual items to keep their properties in a stack.

One way around it I suppose is to tweak all items which can even have a temperature to not even be stackable at all.

Meat for example wouldn't stack, but could be eaten in small bites and take damage in the process (chance of sickness depending on spoilage level as well)

Logs could save the amount that they are burned, too, instead of just being instantly consumed.

[dockwithme 76]

Something came up in another thread and made me think: what are we defining the hot bar as? Generally, I think of a hot bar as a spot to put abilities or items for quick usage. That's what we use it for now, but it also serves as inventory space. A traditional hot bar does not - think of RPG games. So maybe if we go off of that concept - that the hot bar is NOT inventory space, but a few (3-5) spots that can hold easy access items. If we use this idea, then expanding inventory doesn't have to get caught up in how many 'hot bar' slots there are because they aren't inventory space. Maybe think of it as equipping items for easy use.

[LordOfWolves 514]

any news on Crysyn and his game/mod/whatever he is up to that Dunk said had an inventory system similar to the one we have previously had?

You can ask him personally in the IRC channel, Crysyn is always connected.