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Crysyn

Crossbows

161 posts in this topic

A new ranged weapon type that uses bolts instead of arrows. The main difference between the mechanics of the bow and the crossbow would be that a crossbow is already in the fire state then needs to be reloaded instead of a bow being drawn back and released.. This would make your movement slow while reloading but not inherently slow while aiming.

Same as what should be done to bows the different types of wood should be considered for the bow and stock of the cross bow with different characteristics. reeds and twigs could be used for the bolts along with fletching (god we need more than spy chickens for this) and then some way to make different tiered arrow heads and the like.

A secondary consideration that would just be 'kewl' factor would be dual wielding hand versions of the cross bows :)

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i like the idea of a crossbow but what would the blueprint be for an arrow head?....i'll try to make one if you don't have one allready :P

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crossbows would be cool to add, i like the idea of the crossbow having the damage be determined by the type of ammo you are using, higher grade is more dmg and the like. inb4 HUGE CHICKEN FARM

edit after thought: after thinking about it, the only advantage would be the range and maybe the damage because if you had to reload it and it was a slower reload than a drawing of a string it would have to increase the range. also people could abuse it if they had like a lot of already loaded xbows in their inventory then ban, switch, bam, switch, kinda abuse able, if there was a function to only allows one loaded or cant be in the loaded state unless in your hand or something i dunno. LOVE crossbows tho

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crossbows would be cool to add, i like the idea of the crossbow having the damage be determined by the type of ammo you are using, higher grade is more dmg and the like. inb4 HUGE CHICKEN FARM

edit after thought: after thinking about it, the only advantage would be the range and maybe the damage because if you had to reload it and it was a slower reload than a drawing of a string it would have to increase the range. also people could abuse it if they had like a lot of already loaded xbows in their inventory then ban, switch, bam, switch, kinda abuse able, if there was a function to only allows one loaded or cant be in the loaded state unless in your hand or something i dunno. LOVE crossbows tho

maybe an actual gear system would make sense then down the road. Where you have to equip a weapon to use it as opposed to having all the slots you can just put items in. But yeah the dual wielding hand crossbows (very small range to damage curve as compared to others) is directly in line of thought that Twang Twang == Dead target, reload safely or run like hell if ya missed, or swap to a sword :)

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That makes me think that maybe the actual bow should have its recipe changed to use planks (since we don't make recurve bows from sticks off trees lol)

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That makes me think that maybe the actual bow should have its recipe changed to use planks (since we don't make recurve bows from sticks off trees lol)

i think it really should be crafted with a log and a "whittling/carving knife" to make the unstrung bow, and make bow string, technically out of flax, but the string should be spin/worked for strength

maybe an actual gear system would make sense then down the road. Where you have to equip a weapon to use it as opposed to having all the slots you can just put items in. But yeah the dual wielding hand crossbows (very small range to damage curve as compared to others) is directly in line of thought that Twang Twang == Dead target, reload safely or run like hell if ya missed, or swap to a sword :)

dual wielding would be fun, but i think it a bit much for a crossbow imo

i would like to see 2 crossbow types, maybe a repeating crossbow later in the tech that requires harder to find metals, steel for example, it used cartriges of 5 or less bolts then its expended and you need to reload AND re crank, also crossbow string is sinew made from cut leather, knife anybody?

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i think it really should be crafted with a log and a "whittling/carving knife" to make the unstrung bow, and make bow string, technically out of flax, but the string should be spin/worked for strength

dual wielding would be fun, but i think it a bit much for a crossbow imo

i would like to see 2 crossbow types, maybe a repeating crossbow later in the tech that requires harder to find metals, steel for example, it used cartriges of 5 or less bolts then its expended and you need to reload AND re crank, also crossbow string is sinew made from cut leather, knife anybody?

More gear work for a repeater might be nice. I am just really taken but the potential customization for the xbows really. Draw time vs power vs range vs accuracy.. it would seem like a nice trio (good for balancing) of properties you would make trade offs for.. Clearly the ones I would go for are the lowest draw time trading off both power and accuracy

I am almost tempted to start coding these in hopes of inclusion :D

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More gear work for a repeater might be nice. I am just really taken but the potential customization for the xbows really. Draw time vs power vs range vs accuracy.. it would seem like a nice trio (good for balancing) of properties you would make trade offs for.. Clearly the ones I would go for are the lowest draw time trading off both power and accuracy

I am almost tempted to start coding these in hopes of inclusion :D

id say do it, or at the least make it an "optional" mod thats attached, im sure bioxx would be ok with it. each wood has a stock with different properties and the like is a cool idea

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maybe that to make anything with those gears you'd need a mechanics bench with a 5x5 crafting grid so that it reminds of the other tables and makes it a bit complicated? ;)

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Crossbows sound like a great idea, but i'd like to see them unavailable for some time until you get better tech, so you see an evolution of weaponry. Steam-pressing planks to make compound bows and the like could work too.

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Crossbows sound like a great idea, but i'd like to see them unavailable for some time until you get better tech, so you see an evolution of weaponry. Steam-pressing planks to make compound bows and the like could work too.

Steam-pressed planks and steel cogs?
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Yes I like that idea. Not a steampunk buff but I am a fan of the mechanics and fantasy aspect of it all.

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Is it alright to necro this thread? I mean, I want to support this idea and the devs never said it is not accepted.

Necro-ed.

The plan should be a piece by piece part.

Crossbow Base:

[..][..][..][..][..]

[..][..][..][..][..]

[X][X][X][X][X]

[X][X][..][..][..]

[..][..][..][..][..]

Bow Frame:

[X][X][..][..][..]

[..][..][X][..][..]

[..][..][..][X][..]

[..][..][..][..][X]

[..][..][..][..][X]

Trigger:

[X][X][X][X][..]

[X][X][X][X][..]

[..][X][X][..][..]

[..][X][..][..][..]

[..][..][X][..][..]

Construction Method:

Combine 1 Planks, Saw and Crossbow Base Plan in the crafting table to make Crossbow Base. Combine 1 Plank, Saw and Bow Frame Plane in the crafting table to create Bow Frame. Combine Bow Frame and 3 Strings lined up vertically in the crafting table to make a Stringed Bow Frame. Take an ingot (minimum level, Iron) and create your Trigger. Combine the Crossbow Base, Stringed Bow Frame and Trigger to make Crossbow (Base in the center, Frame at the right of it and Trigger below the Base).

Bolt Creation:

Make a bolt by lining up feather, stick and stick in a / way in the crafting table. This is the simplest bolt creation, stacks up to 64 and the weakest (only 25 health damage). Creating more powerful bolts requires making metal rods.

Metal Rod Plan:

[..][..][..][..][X]

[..][..][..][X][..]

[..][..][X][..][..]

[..][X][..][..][..]

[X][..][..][..][..]

Each piece of ingot gives 10 metal rods. Replace the sticks with metal rods to make crossbow bolts of the metal type. Damage will vary, with the best metal type giving a total of 1000 damage. Firing any bolts does not yield a return of bolts if it hits the ground (unlike Vanilla MC, never tried firing bows here in TFC). Crossbows do not have a bolt already in place when switching to it and requires reloading to be done first, switching out then back to it removes the bolt back into the inventory (this will prevent pre-loading bolts for rapid fire via eq switch, balancing method). Crossbows have variable durability based on material used for stock and bow frame. Degraded crossbows (0 durability, will not disappear but will not be able to fire anymore) can be put into the crafting table to remove the trigger. The trigger has it's own independent durability and accumulates all durability damage done across all crossbows it is put into. If a trigger completely wears out (0 durability), the whole crossbow disappears regardless of crossbow's own durability (don't reuse too much).

(BTW, damage numbers not in line with mob health since I do not know the numbers exactly.)

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i like the idea of a crossbow but what would the blueprint be for an arrow head?....i'll try to make one if you don't have one allready :P

Stone bolt and arrowheads could be made in the same fashion as stone tools.

However I do like the idea of a clay mold (another use for clay) in which you could pour the liquid metal. Metal bolt/arrowhead + stick (depending on wood) plus feather could give you 8 such projectiles. They can be recovered like Javelins with a chance of being lost (breaking) on impact?

Different head types:

Flight: Longer range and more precise but less damage

Barbed: low damage but causes bleeding (dot)

Concussive: Causes knockback bludgeoning damage (good against skeletons?) but lower range than normal arrows.

Impact: these guys are non recoverable (consumed on impact) but the tips can be filled with gunpowder (explosion), lava (burn on impact (dot)), poison (alchemy?), etc...

I really do like the idea of crossbows. Composite bows as well. :)

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(BTW, damage numbers not in line with mob health since I do not know the numbers exactly.)

You have 1000 hearts of life, and it will rise up depending on your experience.

It's not a necro but a revival, it's the difference between "HEEEEY GUS I LIEK TISH!" and what you posted :3

As to what you said... In the crafting, you shouldn't lose your plans. And also, considering the woodworking suggestion that was made a while ago, instead of the crafting table those could be part of what woodworking let's you make.

In fact, i think it would be better if those parts of the crossbow which can be metallic actually were metallic. You know, to make it a little more end game like.

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You have 1000 hearts of life, and it will rise up depending on your experience.

It's not a necro but a revival, it's the difference between "HEEEEY GUS I LIEK TISH!" and what you posted :3

As to what you said... In the crafting, you shouldn't lose your plans. And also, considering the woodworking suggestion that was made a while ago, instead of the crafting table those could be part of what woodworking let's you make.

In fact, i think it would be better if those parts of the crossbow which can be metallic actually were metallic. You know, to make it a little more end game like.

Metallic has it's appeal but it comes with a big problem. Durability. I feel that putting metal into a crossbow design would make it have an extreme amount of durability (over 9000... get the joke?). Wood is there to substantiate the durability aspect so that one isn't able to carry that same crossbow almost permanently. Nobody would opt for a Bow after that anyway (Bows are actually quite good, both early and late but needs expanding on eventually).

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Although bolt material doesn't matter that much in terms of damage - in terms of armour penetration it matters, I guess, harder metal less likely to be deformed by impact, but if it has penetrated armour, bolt of any material rips organs apart and more so when it's not clean pointy head anymore. It's crossbow frame material, I think, what causes bolt to gain impulse required to fly and hit, so I'd rather have multiple tiers of crossbows with higher tier ones shooting through person in iron plate armour.

Metallic has it's appeal but it comes with a big problem. Durability. I feel that putting metal into a crossbow design would make it have an extreme amount of durability (over 9000... get the joke?). Wood is there to substantiate the durability aspect so that one isn't able to carry that same crossbow almost permanently.

Well bowstrings (more like crossbowstring?) is not that immortal and will need eventual replacement. It's not like you should make another crossbow after its string gone useless, but it's something. We can actually think of crossbow having two separate durabilities - one for crossbow itself, which is quite high, and one for its string, which is not that high. And I'm pretty sure you can't draw metal strings just with hands without some complicated machinery, so best TFC-crossbowman's friend should be tendons... which perfectly leads to corpse and butchering mechanics.

Firebreathing Pony tendons anyone?

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This reminds me of a comparison of bolt types concerning Dwarf Fortress.

lol

Basically if they hit flesh losses were consistent across the board, but against armoured opponents it was far less likely to do so without a heavier bolt.

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Problem here is bows are pretty shit in TFC right now. javelins do... uh.... 6.6666* more damage iirc?

yeah,

If Bioxx fixes bows (and maybe adds different wood types) crossbows may make their way on the table.

I mean, if melee weapons get better as you advance, shouldn't ranged ones?

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Problem here is bows are pretty shit in TFC right now. javelins do... uh.... 6.6666* more damage iirc?

yeah,

If Bioxx fixes bows (and maybe adds different wood types) crossbows may make their way on the table.

I mean, if melee weapons get better as you advance, shouldn't ranged ones?

Are you saying Bioxx isn't looking at ranged combat at the current moment?

Bows should not be affected by wood types, since it only affect durability. It's the arrows that will affect damage. So, different arrowheads will create stronger damage values but as far as I feel it should go up to, it is steel arrowheads (dealing about 2x more damage than javelins). Any more than that would not affect damage by much and what is amazing about bows compared to crossbows is the firing speed and firing time.

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Are you saying Bioxx isn't looking at ranged combat at the current moment?

Bows should not be affected by wood types, since it only affect durability. It's the arrows that will affect damage. So, different arrowheads will create stronger damage values but as far as I feel it should go up to, it is steel arrowheads (dealing about 2x more damage than javelins). Any more than that would not affect damage by much and what is amazing about bows compared to crossbows is the firing speed and firing time.

Different woods obey hooke's law with different spring constant, so the same draw length makes a bow exert different force. So no, it is ENTIRELY dependent on the wood.
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Different woods obey hooke's law with different spring constant, so the same draw length makes a bow exert different force. So no, it is ENTIRELY dependent on the wood.

You killed me there. I forgot about my Laws and Rules when coming onto these things.

Hopefully, Bioxx takes an interest into upgrading bows so it would be better than it is right now, a crappy knock-off of a javelin. Actually, Javelins should not have that kind of flight curve. It flies too far and straight for something that size is thrown (you've seen the stick's length, you should know what I mean). Bows should fire arrows with the furthest possible distance but is heavily reliant on aiming the right angle to get it to hit the distance and damage on falling arrows and arrows in flight vary based on travel distance, Crossbows (if and when implemented) should have a moderately far distance but drops off straight down with moderately small damage drop over the whole distance and Javelins should have this strong close to mid range distance where it does even damage all-round.

Which reminds me, apart from Bows (update) and Crossbows (new addition), Javelins should also get updated to right? Javelin heads and all that.

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In my opinion, a crossbow should be four things:

1) expensive

2) fairly short-range

3) difficult to reload, both in time and energy

4) armor-piercing

The expense has already been covered by others, so I won't belabor that except to say that I agree it should be a higher-tier weapon.

The difficulty with range (besides programming it, which is another consideration altogether) is that few agree what the actual range of a medieval crossbow was. Modern crossbows built with composite materials can send a bolt to 400-500 yards, and even as far as double that, but the accurate range is a different story--generally considered to be about 40 or 50 yards.

This is the kicker for me. I tried Balkon's Weapons Mod mainly for the crossbows, and was disappointed with the (albeit default) settings on the crossbow reload time. The smallest of hunting crossbows can be prepared by pulling the string back by hand, but the larger, deadlier military crossbows often required both hands and a foot (to hold the bow steady while cranking). Here's an example of a crossbowman preparing for a shot:

Posted Image

At the very least a longer reload time, coupled with more damage, would differentiate the crossbow from the bow and give it more reason to exist (besides being awesome, of course). Another option would be to make the act of reloading it use up energy, just like swinging a sword or wearing armor. I assume this is planned for firing a shot with the bow, but I would suggest that it be more difficult, although I could see a point being made for the muscle power to draw a bow exceeding that required to prepare a crossbow.

Crossbows should utilize stab damage (as outlined by Bioxx in the combat overhaul thread by Jed, reply #23) to penetrate armor to a much greater extent than bows would. Bows would be very effective against unarmored or lightly armored opponents, while crossbows would be basically overkill on unarmored foes, but would provide a way to circumvent armor to some degree. Not completely circumvent, mind you, and it would have to be carefully balanced so that a brand new stone-age fellow couldn't build a crossbow and wreck every red-steel'd opponent he faces.

On the issue of damage types....it would be really awesome to have arrows with different damage types for the bow. Broadheads could do slash damage, and bodkins could do stab. Just a thought. After all, what would Agincourt have been without the power of the English longbow combined with the deadly piercing thin bodkin?

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Short range? Really? That thing could fire at far greater distances than any of bows. You can indeed make it to fire inaccurately, but to deliberately make it short ranged? Nohnohnohnoh.

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Cross bows would obviously have metal limbs, and I'm thinking metal bolts too, to make it expensive but effective.

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