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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Kittychanley

Wiki Edits/Suggestions

146 posts in this topic

If everything is separated correctly, there really should be no extra work involved. The fact that everything is already stacked up together, you're going to run into extra work. For example, if you currently make a page for a ceramic bowls, you'll have to make sure both pottery and the ceramic bowl would be up to date at all times. How do you fix it? Lessen the information you provide us in categories. I mean when I go to pottery, all I want to see is a bunch of links of the things that relate to pottery, not having everything be so specific to the point that you're giving me out recipes. It even goes into depth about the process of clay forming (actual term is actually called firing), that should have it's own page as well. Here is an example of what the pottery page looks like on Wurm's wiki, http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Pottery. I'd highly advise you to take that wiki by example.The fact that so much information is on one page actually makes it feel disorganized, complicated, and unappealing. I mean the pit kiln doesn't even have it's own page, it's a sub category in pottery. Yet the pit kiln isn't only about pottery, it's also part of metallurgy. In fact, I had trouble figuring out how to melt my ore early game because it was so hard to retrieve it from the wiki. Instead I had to figure it out through youtube videos. I do see that you're redoing everything, that's good to see. However I just hope the new layout will be more basic and less specific. Even your tool category gives way too much information, wurm's wiki just lists all the tool names, no information needed. If you don't know what something is, or what it does, you simply click it and figure out. The fact that the wiki isn't like this, is why you need to update every little detail in every page. The knife's description on the tools page is a perfect example of that. Wikis are supposed to be about hundreds of pages of tiny information.

 

Honestly? That wiki page's style is what scared a bunch of users off in the first place. When a user clicks on the pottery page, they expect a page with information for pottery on it. If all they see is a list of links to click on, a lot of users respond by just leaving. Users are lazy, and they do not want to have to open up a hundred tiny pages of information to learn about the core basics of a mod. I have website analytics proving that most users close the page, instead of click on one of the links for when our wiki had style like that in the past.

 

In regards to the metallurgy comment, you must have missed the whole Guides section thats at the very top of the main page. The first one walks you through the basics of the stone age, and the second one hops straight into metallurgy and how to melt your first ore. http://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/Metalworking_Industry

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Honestly? That wiki page's style is what scared a bunch of users off in the first place. When a user clicks on the pottery page, they expect a page with information for pottery on it. If all they see is a list of links to click on, a lot of users respond by just leaving. Users are lazy, and they do not want to have to open up a hundred tiny pages of information to learn about the core basics of a mod. I have website analytics proving that most users close the page, instead of click on one of the links for when our wiki had style like that in the past.

That page had plenty of information in it, things that needed to be more specific had a link to redirect the user. The only thing that it could of improved on is maybe having an actual picture on it. If someone gets scared off with that kind of wiki page, they probably are incapable of playing that type of game anyway. These type of games have a steep learning curve, this isn't a fighter, shooter, or racing game. Many people like to play mindless games, so I'm not surprised why you got those sort of statistics. However those statistics are useless, someone who wants to play a game like farmville, no matter how much you waste your time on a page to make it look appealing, they'll give up on it eventually because they just don't want to think. Another thing, when I used to play Wurm, I've never ran into road blocks when it came to information. Every search I made always got answered. I was also not overburden with information to the point that I was forced to read every little detail on the page just to possibly get my answer.

 

 

In regards to the metallurgy comment, you must have missed the whole Guides section thats at the very top of the main page. The first one walks you through the basics of the stone age, and the second one hops straight into metallurgy and how to melt your first ore. http://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/Metalworking_Industry

 

You see this is a perfect example of what I'm saying. When I was looking at the wiki for information, everything kept telling me to smelt copper with the ceramic vessel. The thing is, nothing was telling me how to smelt my copper with the ceramic vessel. I even tried putting it in the fire, wasting tons of wood because I couldn't figure it out. The pages that I searched were 'Copper' and 'Metals', metals because I was directed there from searching 'Smelting'. I thought that if I clicked on ceramic vessel link in the wiki, it would tell me what it is, what it does, and how it's made, however that's not what I wanted. I never at one point got directed to metalworking industry. It's also surprising that by clicking on ceramic vessel it took me to a pottery page which told me how to smelt my ore, sorry but that's just not very organized.

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Hello all! (first post, so go easy on me) :)

 

I tend to agree with Trenix - I'm a very new TerraFirmaCraftian, and I am really having trouble understanding what the metalurgy progression process (and I did not miss either of the guides). What I'd dearly love to see is a chart listing progress options from stone to best metals (I'm not even sure what the most durable and highest damage alloy is? - Is it Red Steel? This is the last alloy listed on the alloy page, so I assume that it is.) Anyway, to me TFC is all about becoming an expert in the various stages of staying alive, and progressing thru the various metalurgy stages by foraging further afield to find the rarer ores necessary to get there. Ideally, a chart that shows the metalurgy along with pre-requisites (eg. in order to progress to steel, you'll need an xxx anvil, a bloomery, some bellows, etc. - whatever I need to do/build to get there). These pre-requisites would all reference links to pages that explain what materials are required to build/craft them. At the moment, this seems a little scattered around the wiki, and I'm having a tough time determining what I have to do next to get to the next tier of metals.

 

Kitty, you stated the following: "I have plans for the majority of pages, so please don't start criticizing how a page is laid out until you are 100% certain that the page has been completely updated for 79, and that my ideas for it are complete." Question: How would I know when the pages have been updated and your ideas are complete? Will you be putting a banner on them stating this?

 

Finally, kudos to the support team, wiki contributors, guide builders, YouTubers - everyone who plays a part in making the mod what it is. I really do enjoy playing, even if things do seem a little confusing to me at times.

 

Cheers,

 

FirstFlyte

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So right now I'm playing and I'm getting even more frustrated with this wiki. I search for mold, nothing appears and no redirection. I look for pickaxe mold, same concept. I just recently received a large raw hide, searched it in the wiki, no information again. I'm sorry, but this wiki has so many road blocks. I'm not getting any information that I'm looking for. I guess I'll wait and see what will come of the wiki, but for now I'll have to watch dunk's videos for help. A few minutes in his video and I found out that when a bunch of metals are found above ground than that means that there is a vein around. That's some crucial information that I never knew about!

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So right now I'm playing and I'm getting even more frustrated with this wiki. I search for mold, nothing appears and no redirection. I look for pickaxe mold, same concept. I just recently received a large raw hide, searched it in the wiki, no information again. I'm sorry, but this wiki has so many road blocks. I'm not getting any information that I'm looking for. I guess I'll wait and see what will come of the wiki, but for now I'll have to watch dunk's videos for help. A few minutes in his video and I found out that when a bunch of metals are found above ground than that means that there is a vein around. That's some crucial information that I never knew about!

 

The problem is that you are expecting to type a very specific or very general term into the search bar, and for it to immediately bring up a specific page. If you actually hit search, it will bring up pages that contain the words that you were searching for if you just scroll down.

 

Typing "mold" into the search bar isn't going to give good results because it's too generic. There are ceramic ingot molds, clay ingot molds, ceramic and clay molds for each individual tool and weapon. There's no way for the wiki to read your mind and figure out exactly which one of those molds you are looking for information for. If you had typed in "Clay Mold" or "Ceramic Mold", you would get redirected to the pottery page, which has the information you are looking for. If you were looking for the mold of a specific tool, you should probably look at that tool's page. Even if you don't think of that and end up at the Pottery page, it has this bold statement/link on it: 

 

For tool and weapon mold recipes, refer to Clay Tool Molds.

 

However, there are the links on the main page for a reason: most Minecraft-related wiki users never touch the search bar. A bit of common sense and you can quickly figure out that maybe that link that says Pottery on the main page will give you some information about molds.

 

Typing "large raw hide" into the search bar isn't going to be of much help either, because it's too specific. This may seem contradictory to my above statement about molds, but it's not. At the very core of the item, a hide is a hide is a hide regardless of the size. If you had instead searched for just "Hide" you would get this page: http://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/Hide

 

Even if you do type "large raw hide" into the search bar, if you actually hit search and scroll down, it does show the Hide page.

 

As for the crucial ore information, I'm guessing it never occurred to you to type "Ore" into the search bar? Doing so brings you to this page: http://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/Ores_%26_Minerals

 

Which talks about that crucial information in the very first two sentences! "Small ores can be found scattered around on the surface of the ground. These are samples of what ore veins are located within 35 blocks underneath the soil, so they're somewhat important."

 

In addition to the links on the Main page, which the majority of our users use in lieu of the search bar, there is also the navigation box at the bottom of every single page. If you want to find information about something, the majority of the time you can click a link on that box that common sense would dictate it is related to, and get information on the subject.

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Ideally, a chart that shows the metalurgy along with pre-requisites (eg. in order to progress to steel, you'll need an xxx anvil, a bloomery, some bellows, etc. - whatever I need to do/build to get there). These pre-requisites would all reference links to pages that explain what materials are required to build/craft them. At the moment, this seems a little scattered around the wiki, and I'm having a tough time determining what I have to do next to get to the next tier of metals.

 

Question: How would I know when the pages have been updated and your ideas are complete? Will you be putting a banner on them stating this?

 

Other than mentioning the bellows, the Metalworking Guide pretty much contains all the information you are looking for. It isn't in chart form because the mod is a bit too complicated to fit it all into a single chart, but the information for the most part is there. It tells you about the first two stages (Copper & Bronze) and how to use pottery to progress through them, as well as containing links to pages that explain what materials are required for pottery. Next it talks about anvils, mentioning a bit about the different tiers, how to craft the starting ones, and provides a link to the Anvil page for more information. Finally in the iron age section, it states the requirements for a bloomery and a blast furnace, as well as the basics of processing the iron, and once again provides links to the pages for each of these devices for more information. Other than the fact that it isn't all in one big over-simplified chart form, I honestly don't see what is missing. If you could kindly point out what parts exactly are missing, and where you feel on that page they belong in some form other than a chart, I would definitely take it into consideration.

 

As for knowing when a page is complete, 90% of the pages that are up to date will have a History section at the bottom. This section contains references to the change log, so if you see something in it for 79.0 or later, the page is likely up to date. I won't guarantee that it is up to date, as a few of the editors are updating only single pieces of pages to be up to date, rather than the entire thing. I know this is confusing, and I am indeed still reminding those editors that if they update anything on a page, they need to make sure the entire page is up to date.

 

The #1 way to know that a page is complete and I'm ready for suggestions on it is to check the View history tab on the upper right corner. Here's an example of the tab for the Barrel page:

 

http://wiki.terrafirmacraft.com/index.php?title=Barrel&action=history

 

If you see any sort of message on there along the lines of "Updated to B79" or whatever the current version is, then the page is open for suggestions.

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It isn't in chart form because the mod is a bit too complicated to fit it all into a single chart, but the information for the most part is there.

I think what he is looking for is something like this:http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Quickstart_guideYou must admit that Dwarf Fortress is still way more complicated than TFC, and a chart like this should be doable. Maybe somebody would take his time and put something together like this chart?
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You're entitled to your own opinion but I still think your wiki is too complicated to get around. Remember this is coming from a new player who doesn't know all the tricks to get around the wiki, you need to get into my shoes for a moment to realize that. If every item had it's own page, me searching for 'mold' would of brought up all the molds, having me to easily choose what I was looking for. Now even if you didn't wanna go down the page route, a redirection can also help. For example, searching for 'large raw hide' should of redirected me to hides, but it doesn't. Instead I have to scroll down the page to finally find it when it should be one of the first search results. You're saying the Wurm wiki is scared many people away, but every wiki is the same, I only mention wurm's wiki because it's a very complex game that gives information in a gradual manner. Besides that game has been getting increasingly successful, it's only drawback is that it's overpriced. Monthly fee for a java game is a little beyond for me.I mean if you're going to make your whole wiki about categories, you mind as just well make website instead. It'll be overall more appealing and understandable. Either that or remove the search bar, because it really doesn't appear that you're using it anyway and someone like me who is relying on that function entirely, will get overly frustrated. I've took part in editing wiki's, even in our very own official Minecraft wiki. I know how it works, like searching for a specific item should bring up a page for it, it runs hand to hand with the search function. Go to the Minecraft wiki and check for yourself, every item will be found if you simply type it's name in the search bar, both generic and specific.

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A flow chart would definitely be doable... but I really suck at making flow charts. >.>

You could just update TFC to match the DwarfFortress flow chart and use the latter as is. ;)

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… I've took part in editing wiki's, even in our very own official Minecraft wiki. I know how it works, like searching for a specific item should bring up a page for it, it runs hand to hand with the search function. Go to the Minecraft wiki and check for yourself, every item will be found if you simply type it's name in the search bar, both generic and specific.

The Minecraft Wiki is in pretty good shape because literally thousands of people have contributed to it, and it has dozens or hundreds of people watching over recent changes to some degree or other (I only "watch" a few hundred articles myself). And yet even just today I added redirect links for "redstone tick" and "quasi-connectivity" which apparently didn't exist before (so a search for those terms would have required you to read down a list of search results). It's an on-going process and the current dozen or so trusted editors will surely update the TFC wiki when they get a chance.

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Might I suggest a notes format? I found the wiki to be rather. . . tedious to get through so I compiled my own notes namely for crafting recipes I just keep forgetting. I used an old school roman numeral for each step and letters underneath for various notes. I feel that this style will give quick info at a glance while having items in the notes be links. An experienced  player and say " Well first soaked hide, then scrapped hide, then prepared hide, " while a new player and click on the items listed under ' soaked hided ' and see " Oh I need a barrel". It may sound weird but I also pictured a sort of recipe card style. On top would be a list of ingredients needed and below would be the crafting process. This again gives long time users faster at a glance info while giving new players a sort of check list. TFC is massive in scope and when I was a new player I would write down in a list the things I needed if I wanted something. The reality is in the beginning I  spent more time reading the wiki than playing the game. I know not everyone is like that, but consider and slight restructure to the way the info is presented. 

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Hi!

 

I've added draft updates to the Garlic, Greenbean, Onion, Squash and Soybean talk pages. They follow the same formatting as the earlier ones (e.g. Barley). They need to have the version history verified (since I don't know where the full history of changelogs are), and the large-format images uploaded, and they should be good to go!

 

Cheers!

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Suggestion/Request: Please update info on gold panning.

 

On the Gold Pan page, it states that you can receive copper, gold or platinum from panning. Also, the History table's most recent entry reports a change from 78.14 that says "Silver removed from panning to slow the progression straight to bronze."

 

Meanwhile, the Skills page reports that "A minimum prospecting skill level of Adept is required in order for the gold pan to give Native Silver (...)".

This is consistent with the Changelog for 79.0, which states "Example: Reaching Adept level unlocks silver to be found from panning" for the prospecting skill.

 

This leads me to believe that the info on the Gold Pan page is outdated, and needs to a.) mention the prospecting skill and b.) acknowledge that getting silver is once again possible.

 

 

Thanks! :)

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I am desperately seaching for a donkey in my world. I wanted to check which climate they spawn in but could not find any information regarding this in the wiki or the forums using the search function in both.

Might be an easy addon to the "climate" page if the wiki.

 

Do they share the climate conditions of horses?

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I am desperately seaching for a donkey in my world. I wanted to check which climate they spawn in but could not find any information regarding this in the wiki or the forums using the search function in both.

Might be an easy addon to the "climate" page if the wiki.

 

Do they share the climate conditions of horses?

 

Yes. In Minecraft horses and donkeys are the same mob. They just have different metadata.

 

Edit: In case you don't know what metadata is: You can have a brown horse with spots, you can have a white horse with patches, you can have an all black horse, you can have a "donkey" horse.

Edited by Kittychanley
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Minor request: The recipe for the flower pot is missing in the pottery page. I finally found it in the update news somewhere more or less randomly after I knew from a Let's Play that flower pots are possible.

 

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I'm on the latest version of minecraft which is 1.11.2 and I noticed that all the videos are for earlier versions, no problem right

? Well I went ahead and changed to forge 1.7.10 with the link you gave in the most current version and downloaded the mod putting it in the mods folder and all that and everything worked fine until I had to make a world. At this point everything seemed perfect all, 5 mods showed on the title screen and I followed the instructions carefully and nothing was downloaded wrong or anything, but whenever I tried to make a world the game always crashed with this error  java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException I don't know what it means or how to fix it. Can you please help me I really want to play this awsome mod!

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11 hours ago, Stormytehcat said:

I'm on the latest version of minecraft which is 1.11.2 and I noticed that all the videos are for earlier versions, no problem right

? Well I went ahead and changed to forge 1.7.10 with the link you gave in the most current version and downloaded the mod putting it in the mods folder and all that and everything worked fine until I had to make a world. At this point everything seemed perfect all, 5 mods showed on the title screen and I followed the instructions carefully and nothing was downloaded wrong or anything, but whenever I tried to make a world the game always crashed with this error  java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException I don't know what it means or how to fix it. Can you please help me I really want to play this awsome mod!

This is completely off topic to this thread. Go here Click here to use the provided form to submit a bug or crash report. which will provide a form to report issues in the "Support" section. Fill it out completely or it is likely to get locked by admins.

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