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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Deathbytac0

Ranching: tending to your animals

37 posts in this topic

Coming from a background of raising animals and seeing a related topic on the tread: Harsher Winter, I noticed how easy it is to raise animals in the game and get stacks and stacks of food at such a low cost (still staying with your balance, Dunk).

 

Overall

Animals need enclosures sufficient for the amount of animals with space for breeding, or else the area is overpopulated and disease is a bigger issue than the resources it takes to build the larger enclosure. Disease spreads from animal to animal, even other types of animals, gets to wild animals, and takes over the world (jk). Wild animals carry diseases, gather herbs and make vaccines for your animals after taming. Animals need to be watered and fed every so often. My idea of how that can work is a status bar that appears when hovering over your animals, animals need to be fed like 3 times every Minecraft month because it's a game and feeding them day and night would be a problem on servers. Unless we want our game to be more important than our lives :).

 

Chickens

I noticed the most problem here.

  • First of all, although they can not fly very well, with the assist of objects around them they can climb around 25-30ft up a wooden wall. Fences would be even easier. Horizontal fencing needs to be added, wooden just because and wire mesh fencing because coops need a outside enclosure because chickens are unsanitary animals.

 

  • Chickens need coops, indoor and outdoor. Chickens have to eat out of troughs because they poop everywhere and eating where you poop is not a good idea, try it someday and tell me how you feel. Coops must have an outside extension because being stuck inside with all your poop is another very bad idea and everything needs vitamin D.

 

  • A coop is a multiblock structure up to a certain size (they are fairly cramped by the way, I had like 12 chickens in a 149sqft coop). The multiblock is complete with an enclosed area, inside floor must be any practical block but dirt/grass with a trough and places for hens to lay eggs, with straw placed inside, outside must be grass with water on top or flush with the ground.

coops

Posted Image

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inside

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Cows/horses/sheep

I don't know if you guys took out horses, but the only difference between cows/sheep is that they need shoes. All of these can be together, but they need a large pasture and a barn and stables, tack sheds are handy, but can't be inside the pasture. Stables can be inside the barn, since it's Minecraft nothing needs working doors. Stables are just a roofed partition for one animal with a trough and water, that's good enough for Minecraft. A barn is just for storage and a place to corral your animals, completely open space unless it also occupies stables, only must is a roof and straw. A tack shed is to keep tools and to tie up your animals out front, so no actual need.

empty barn

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barn with stables

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tack sheds

https://www.google.com/search?q=tack+shed&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS367US368&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=yDstUrbJHOSk2AWn14GICg&biw=1364&bih=640&sei=zTstUouxGuuI2gWh6IH4BA

 

Pigs

Being unsanitary animals they need to be alone in a enclosure like cows/horses/sheep, but smaller and only need a roof over their head. Can be fed rotten flesh/meat.

 

Added ideas

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I think the biggest problem right now, is that animals can survive even if you don't care about them. I think introducing animal hunger is best and simplest way to change it.

Simply said, each animal has it's own hunger meter and it needs to feed for it to survive and reproduce. Normally, animals can feed themselves as long as they have enough grass. Say cow can survive if it has 8x8 patch of grass. But, building such a big enclosure might be impractical. So player can place feeder in the enclosure. Player can then put appropriate feeding (cereals or vegetables) and any hungry animal nearby will feed itself from this feeder. Failing to feed them will result in their death.

 

Reproduction will change too. You no longer right-click if you want animals to mate. As long as male and female are close and as long as they are properly fed, they will mate and female will become pregnant. Pregnant females need much more food, so properly taking care of them is crucial if you want more of your animals. Also children are much more prone to starvation, so feeding them is harder than adults.

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Exactly, grass is a secondary food. Even though cows live off grass, cows/horses/sheep should eat say 5 blocks of grass in emergency, stop and require "real" food. Therefore making animals live on dry grass hard but possible, especially if heat is a factor in there hunger.

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But you also have to think about animals in wild. You can't have them starve themselves. Having grass as only "emergency" can quickly lead to mass extinction of wild animals.

Unless you create some process to turn wild animals into domesticated ones.

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I noticed the most problem here.

  • First of all, although they can not fly very well, with the assist of objects around them they can climb around 25-30ft up a wooden wall. Fences would be even easier. Horizontal fencing needs to be added, wooden just because and wire mesh fencing because coops need a outside enclosure because chickens are unsanitary animals. Yes, and if wolves go hunting chickens, wire mesh would be a great way to protect your chickens....(hey has any one thought about adding foxes, or rabbits?)

 

  • Chickens need coops, indoor and outdoor. Chickens have to eat out of troughs because they poop everywhere and eating where you poop is not a good idea, try it someday and tell me how you feel. Coops must have an outside extension because being stuck inside with all your poop is another very bad idea and everything needs vitamin D. Both water and food troughs could be good, and there could probabley be two types of troughs, horizontal (which is long and wide, but to be filled, needs to be done manually) or vertical which would be short and narrow (but would "gravity feed" as such and wouldn't need to be filled up as often)

 

  •  inside floor must be any practical block but dirt/grass with a trough and places for hens to lay eggs, with straw placed inside, outside must be grass with water on top or flush with the ground. I disagree with this. Ok sure where they lay eggs can be some other material, although the "run" shouldn't be. Half the reason we have chickens is because the manure is really good for the soil, and as the chickens are walking around on the ground, not only can they pick out grubs ect, they can also manure the ground. Btw we compensate the problems the benfits cause (hygiene, not enough food ect) by using a pen that isn't bolted to the ground, so we can drag it around where ever we need it.

 

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I just wondered, with the current changes, who would still lure animals over distances +8000 blocks and across oceans to their base depending on where you spawned... Not that i'm asking for changes but husbandry has become quite unappealing.

 

Suggestions above sound interesting, but I think realistically one should ask for simple changes. It might take years before the above are implemented.

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A slightly better option for dry hay are leaves, or kerppu or lehdes as we call them in Finland. The leafy branches, about 1-2 m long, are harvested in midsummer and left to dry in a barn or a specially dedicated building, a lato. They form a great part of the animals winter diet. Also, chikens were fed the dried berry-full branches of rowan trees, which improve their egg-laying capacities.

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Pigs

Being unsanitary animals they need to be alone in a enclosure like cows/horses/sheep, but smaller and only need a roof over their head. Can be fed rotten flesh/meat.

 

I disagree.  Pigs are usually kept in unsanitary conditions, but they themselves are not naturally unsanitary.  Given any decent sized pasture to operate in, pigs don't defecate in the areas where they eat or sleep.  Pigs, being omnivores, will eat a great variety of foodstuffs, both traditional and "non-traditional" (rotted flesh, feces - especially if given nothing else).  But those that are fed a non-traditional (NT) diet do not make good eating.

 

Pigs can live in non-grass pens, if necessary, but would need to be fed directly to avoid dying of hunger.  If pigs are fed NT foods (most likely zombie flesh, or dung below), they should have a (strong) chance to show an odd-colored marker in their skin to indicate that they are not a healthy food source.  After a random amount of time, the marker would go away, assuming no further NT foods are consumed.

___

 

Pigs that are allowed outdoors do need a mud wallow in order to coat their skin (acts as sun block, skin hydration, and bug repellent).  The desire for a pig wallow would probably require a ground overlay (like snow) of mud.  A dark brown panel, it would sit on top of exposed dirt that has been subjected to a significant amount of water (rain, buckets, etc.), based on a random chance of occurring.  Pigs can root in grassy dirt to remove the grass and prepare the area as well, perhaps like a hoe tills the soil, meaning it is almost certain to turn to mud upon exposure to water.  

 

Mud slightly slows down mobs and players traveling through it, as well as causing the sliding effect seen on ice.  Mud can be removed from dirt by slowly breaking it with any object, or more quickly shoveling it away (doing so could collect the mud).  It also can go away if it is drier/warmer, with less chance if it sits next to another mud tile or a water source.  If deemed appropriate, collected mud could be crafted, with straw, into durable blocks.

 

Another option would be to have a type of water block that is treated as mud, although this should be harder to move in (and possibly produce more mud units for crafting when collected).  I haven't seen enough of the game yet to know what kind of marsh or swamp biomes are in existence, but mud (in either form) seems like a natural fit for these types of environments.

___

 

If there is a desire for more believability with domesticated animals (and even wild animals, perhaps), you could add dung.  Dung would operate similar to the mud overlay indicated above: sitting on top of whatever surface, slowing and sliding mobs and players (dry dung has a smaller debuff).  Wet dung is slower to remove/retrieve, while dried dung still sits on top of the surface until it fades (into sky-exposed dirt or grass only) or is removed/retrieved.  Dung (especially when wet) presents an unhealthy environment for animals and players (both the feces itself and the bugs it attracts), with a chance for sickness after prolonged exposure (animals that are sick would be treated like pigs having eaten NT foods, above).  

 

If a player has the animals in an indoor enclosure, they should probably remove the dung on a regular basis, while large outdoor paddocks should have enough room to minimize exposure before the sun and earth reclaim the material.  A layer of straw on the floor should also help, in that it keeps dung from being "wet", but still needs to be removed like dry dung.  Wet, dry, or straw-infused dung can be used as fertilizer for agricultural crops.  Dry dung can also be used as fuel for a fire pit (don't know if that would have any impact on food cooked in a fire fueled in that way).

___

 

One last thing:  Can we get tilled soil that is broken (especially shoveled) to return as a dirt block instead of just disappearing?  Can we also have the original MC plants (including pumpkins) to work with the new soil?

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I think the biggest problem right now, is that animals can survive even if you don't care about them. I think introducing animal hunger is best and simplest way to change it.

Simply said, each animal has it's own hunger meter and it needs to feed for it to survive and reproduce. Normally, animals can feed themselves as long as they have enough grass. Say cow can survive if it has 8x8 patch of grass. But, building such a big enclosure might be impractical. So player can place feeder in the enclosure. Player can then put appropriate feeding (cereals or vegetables) and any hungry animal nearby will feed itself from this feeder. Failing to feed them will result in their death.

 

Reproduction will change too. You no longer right-click if you want animals to mate. As long as male and female are close and as long as they are properly fed, they will mate and female will become pregnant. Pregnant females need much more food, so properly taking care of them is crucial if you want more of your animals. Also children are much more prone to starvation, so feeding them is harder than adults.

animals have always had a hunger meter, they just didn't die from running out of things to eat. As long as somone feeds your animals/ the chunk unloads when you log out, it should be fine. Otherwise, you might have a problem.

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animals have always had a hunger meter, they just didn't die from running out of things to eat. As long as somone feeds your animals/ the chunk unloads when you log out, it should be fine. Otherwise, you might have a problem.

Really? I have lots of animals in pretty tight space and I haven't feed them in a while. Yet, I don't really see their count decreasing.

And from checking the source code, it seems that there is no tie between low hunger and death. Animals just heal if their health is big enough.

 

So I don't really see how not feeding animals "might be a problem.".

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If there is a desire for more believability with domesticated animals (and even wild animals, perhaps), you could add dung.  Dung would operate similar to the mud overlay indicated above: sitting on top of whatever surface, slowing and sliding mobs and players (dry dung has a smaller debuff).  Wet dung is slower to remove/retrieve, while dried dung still sits on top of the surface until it fades (into sky-exposed dirt or grass only) or is removed/retrieved.  Dung (especially when wet) presents an unhealthy environment for animals and players (both the feces itself and the bugs it attracts), with a chance for sickness after prolonged exposure (animals that are sick would be treated like pigs having eaten NT foods, above).  

 

If a player has the animals in an indoor enclosure, they should probably remove the dung on a regular basis, while large outdoor paddocks should have enough room to minimize exposure before the sun and earth reclaim the material.  A layer of straw on the floor should also help, in that it keeps dung from being "wet", but still needs to be removed like dry dung.  Wet, dry, or straw-infused dung can be used as fertilizer for agricultural crops.  Dry dung can also be used as fuel for a fire pit (don't know if that would have any impact on food cooked in a fire fueled in that way).

 

I just wanted to clarify my earlier entry for dung:

- Cows and pigs (and horses once implemented) leave larger, chunk-like droppings, which would be (structurally) closer in nature to the stone/ore samples that sit on the surface layer of the world.  Prolonged activity without removal could more heavily impact a block surface, showing visually as multiple elements but as part of a single object, and cause the object to then operate as indicated above.  

- Sheep and chickens leave more disperse droppings, which would always act as the overlay, but may take longer to appear (especially for individual chickens).

- Dung being more of a small surface element rather than a complete, thick coverage, probably should not have a slow debuff, but the slide effect should still take place.

- Dung indoors doesn't get the advantage of the sun in terms of drying or dispersing (as long as it's on grass/dirt), but otherwise it should still be able to do both, just slower.

- The various types of dung that are collected should probably all end up as "dung" (unqualified) when loaded into the inventory.  "Dung" that is in inventory can be moved between inventories, used in crafting, or discarded into the world, but cannot be placed.

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Dunk has stated many times that he cannot code poop with a straight face, and therefore will not do it.

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Dunk has stated many times that he cannot code poop with a straight face, and therefore will not do it.

 

Ahhh but who said Bioxx couldn't?

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Point me how, and I'll code it. And some other things too.

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Point me how, and I'll code it. And some other things too.

 

Im actually on my path right now of trying to learn to code, so i can add those things that i have always wanted, if that is for vanilla, or for TFC. 

 

So you know how to code?

 

Are you asking of a way to implement this idea?

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Yeah, poop is a bit of a no-no. There was a thread regarding manure and it was abandoned when we found out that dunk couldn't code it. Chickens are pretty dumb, even if they figure out how to fly, so clipping their wings by right-clicking them with a knife should keep them in check. Pregnant chickens give birth to live birds, right? How? If a chicken mates, it should look for a thatch block with a roof over it that's within 10 blocks and is possible to get to, i.e. not fences in the way. When it finds the thatch block, it will lay up to nine eggs; they appear in-game like placed pottery does, but with space for 9 per block. Leaving the chicken to hatch the eggs gives you baby chicks. Sprinting towards the chicken on the block scares it off, and you can collect the eggs. But you can't place them back in the thatch

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Im actually on my path right now of trying to learn to code, so i can add those things that i have always wanted, if that is for vanilla, or for TFC. 

 

So you know how to code?

 

Are you asking of a way to implement this idea?

I know Java, yes. It's just that I'm kinda lazy to find documentation on how to write things for Minecraft. Mostly it's just "look how others do this and do the same" - that's not how you supposed to do it, that leads to replication and anchoring of bad coding habits.

 

But thread got heavily derailed now, I have to say. Back to original discussion, maybe?

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 I'm kinda lazy to find documentation on how to write things for Minecraft.

 

[OT]

The thing is, there is no documentation. There are few basic tutorials here and there, but they don't explain anything properly. And they are often outdated or just plain wrong. And only way to actually learn it is to combine trial and error with copying what other mods do. I even found some weird stuff in TFC's own codebase.

[/OT]

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Yeah, poop is a bit of a no-no. There was a thread regarding manure and it was abandoned when we found out that dunk couldn't code it. Chickens are pretty dumb, even if they figure out how to fly, so clipping their wings by right-clicking them with a knife should keep them in check. Pregnant chickens give birth to live birds, right? How? If a chicken mates, it should look for a thatch block with a roof over it that's within 10 blocks and is possible to get to, i.e. not fences in the way. When it finds the thatch block, it will lay up to nine eggs; they appear in-game like placed pottery does, but with space for 9 per block. Leaving the chicken to hatch the eggs gives you baby chicks. Sprinting towards the chicken on the block scares it off, and you can collect the eggs. But you can't place them back in the thatch

Chickens can fly and can get somewhere with clipped wings, if they get out of the cage either way, it's like playing tag with Usain Bolt. Anyway I said in the coop they needed a place for hens to lay eggs, a platform with straw on it.

 

And poop is great guys... Fun stuff ;).

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The only issue I have with animal hunger is if I cant play for a few days on the server. chunk loading is not a solution because as soon as another player passes close to my home all my animals would die.

I think a mid term would be to add animal fatness. Like the animals would not die of hunger, but need better food to fatten up and be slaughtered.

Also cows would not produce milk unless fed, and chicken would not give eggs.

you could even go as far as sheep not re growing wool.

just keep in mind that on most tfc servers is really hard to find animals.

and as single player goes what about when you need to go exploring and spend several days away?

so yes for animal husbandry. No for animals dying of hunger. But hungry animals would not produce anything or give any meat or milk or eggs or wool.

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I'm kinda divided here... on the one hand, this kinda falls within my 'more stable straw' thread... but on the other, this would have been one long-ass post for a reply

 

Also, no way in hell is poop ever happening. I suggested 'dirty straw' and people are having trouble with the idea.

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I'm completely in favor of having animals become thin instead of dying. Over time on a server everyone would eventually let their animals die one way or another. Then they would need to find wild ones and before too long there wouldn't be a pig or chicken to be seen for miles. Making animals straight-up die when they don't eat enough sounds realistic but doesn't bode well for continuous game play.

 

The best way to do it is let them survive but drop next to no usable meat when killed (an for each species be un-milkable... un-shearable... un-pluckable/no egg-laying...etc). If I neglect my cows I should have to get them nice and fat (via feed trough or hand-feeding) over the course of at least a month or two before I get a good load of meat. Letting them die would basically ruin the game to a point where servers would be forced to generate new maps due to the complete lack of animals over time as players accidentally let their entire herd perish and replace them with the increasingly fewer wild counterparts.

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Whats the problem with animals dying? Animals should be able to survive on just grass. You just have to feed them more to make them grow up.

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In response to older conversation: it's not that I can't code poop, it's that I don't want it in the game. It was my least favourite part of BTW, although I'm afraid we might have to add it eventually, I'd prefer to avoid it. For the time being: no.

 

As eternalundeath mentioned, I have talked about this in more detail in his thread. Animals will most likely need to be fed in order to survive. Check out my post there for more information.

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As eternalundeath mentioned, I have talked about this in more detail in his thread. Animals will most likely need to be fed in order to survive.

 

Survive and thrive are two different things with VERY different applications. I'm afraid if you make death the immediate outcome you'll end up with the situation I described a few posts up.

 

 

Over time on a server everyone would eventually let their animals die one way or another. Then they would need to find wild ones and before too long there wouldn't be a pig or chicken to be seen for miles. Making animals straight-up die when they don't eat enough sounds realistic but doesn't bode well for continuous game play.

 

 

Any word on this?

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