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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Euphoric

[TFC 0.77.21] SteamAge v0.3.0

55 posts in this topic

This is addon I'm working on right now. It is still early work, so take this more like a concept, than finished mod. As name implies, it adds steam power and steam related devices into TFC.
The reason why I'm posting it this early is to get discussion going about how such thing should integrate into TFC experience. And partly to motivate myself to continue working on it.
 
Get binary here : https://github.com/Euphoric/SteamAge/releases/tag/version-0.3
Changelog : https://github.com/Euphoric/SteamAge/blob/version-0.3/changelog.txt
And readme how to use this mod : https://github.com/Euphoric/SteamAge/blob/version-0.3/Readme.txt
Issues&features&ideas : https://github.com/Euphoric/SteamAge/issues
 
This is still heavy work in progress, so don't try it on your real world save. There are bound to be bugs and I don't guarantee any backwards compatibility.
Just copy the jar into your mods folder and you should be done.
 
The way I'm approaching design of this mod is :
1. Create some interesting mechanics. In many energy-related mods there is not much mechanics related to energy itself. It always goes generator=>storage=>machine. Not so with this mod. The whole mod should go around managing pressure. If pressure is too low, nothing will really work. If it is too high stuff goes bad. Creating such mechanics is first goal of this mod.
2. Keep things manual. The next thing I don't like on many other mods is level of automatization. Just putting down devices and have them run 24/7 is not how I imagine machinery. So even when you use steam power devices to their fullest, you still need to manage them.
3. Add new goals. With many other mods, they just add items and devices that make previously easy thing even easier. Instead, I'm planning on creating new interesting goals you can reach when using steam power. Of course making things easier is main goal of steam power, but that should be only side effect of reaching those new goals.
4. Make alternatives. I really want to create mod, where problems might have different solutions. Each with it's ups and downs. This mostly depend on how much content I add into the mod.
 
Like I said, discuss and criticize. I know there was talk about steam power and mechanical systems, but nothing concrete exists yet. I'm trying to change that with at least basic concept like this.
 
Also, I would be glad if someone would help me with graphics. I'm not an artist and I'm worried that while I might create interesting mechanics, it might end up looking terrible.
 
As for use of this mod in modpacks: I don't care, you can use it in any way you want. But I warned you above so I'm not held responsible for any damage this mod might cause.

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I like!! But for pipes would you make lead pipes or another metal like copper?

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I like!! But for pipes would you make lead pipes or another metal like copper?

 

Lead pipes wouldn't be able to stand the heat or pressure and would only be good for sending untreated water, Copper pipes and up on the other hand would be more sensible for Steam. I believe lead pipes would have there place in things like Water Pumps.

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are you going to add a github repo?

Yes. Just need to clean it up a little bit. And I'm occupied with school work right now.

 

 

Lead pipes wouldn't be able to stand the heat or pressure and would only be good for sending untreated water, Copper pipes and up on the other hand would be more sensible for Steam. I believe lead pipes would have there place in things like Water Pumps.

Thats what I'm thinking about. Different tiers of pipes that can withstand different pressures.

 

Does it work for servers too?

I haven't test it, but I assume it works by default.

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Does it work for you in SMP? Or am i doing something wrong? 

[SEVERE] Encountered an unexpected exception IllegalArgumentExceptionjava.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Slot 2500 is already occupied by [email protected] when adding [email protected]    at net.minecraft.block.Block.<init>(Block.java:349)    at net.minecraft.block.BlockContainer.<init>(SourceFile:9)    at steamage.Boiler.BoilerBlock.<init>(BoilerBlock.java:19)    at steamage.Blocks.LoadBlocks(Blocks.java:19)    at steamage.SteamAge.preInit(SteamAge.java:50)    at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)    at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:57)    at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)    at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:491)    at cpw.mods.fml.common.FMLModContainer.handleModStateEvent(FMLModContainer.java:540)    at sun.reflect.GeneratedMethodAccessor1.invoke(Unknown Source)    at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)    at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:491)    at com.google.common.eventbus.EventHandler.handleEvent(EventHandler.java:74)    at com.google.common.eventbus.SynchronizedEventHandler.handleEvent(SynchronizedEventHandler.java:45)    at com.google.common.eventbus.EventBus.dispatch(EventBus.java:313)    at com.google.common.eventbus.EventBus.dispatchQueuedEvents(EventBus.java:296)    at com.google.common.eventbus.EventBus.post(EventBus.java:267)    at cpw.mods.fml.common.LoadController.sendEventToModContainer(LoadController.java:194)    at cpw.mods.fml.common.LoadController.propogateStateMessage(LoadController.java:174)    at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)    at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(NativeMethodAccessorImpl.java:57)    at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.java:43)    at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Method.java:491)    at com.google.common.eventbus.EventHandler.handleEvent(EventHandler.java:74)    at com.google.common.eventbus.SynchronizedEventHandler.handleEvent(SynchronizedEventHandler.java:45)    at com.google.common.eventbus.EventBus.dispatch(EventBus.java:313)    at com.google.common.eventbus.EventBus.dispatchQueuedEvents(EventBus.java:296)    at com.google.common.eventbus.EventBus.post(EventBus.java:267)    at cpw.mods.fml.common.LoadController.distributeStateMessage(LoadController.java:105)    at cpw.mods.fml.common.Loader.loadMods(Loader.java:520)    at cpw.mods.fml.server.FMLServerHandler.beginServerLoading(FMLServerHandler.java:99)    at cpw.mods.fml.common.FMLCommonHandler.onServerStart(FMLCommonHandler.java:350)    at net.minecraft.server.dedicated.DedicatedServer.func_71197_b(DedicatedServer.java:69)    at net.minecraft.server.MinecraftServer.run(MinecraftServer.java:443)    at net.minecraft.server.ThreadMinecraftServer.run(SourceFile:582)
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Oh. The problem is on my side.

I have bug in how I load configs. So delete the config every time you want to run it and it should work. I assume

Next version should be fixed.

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Consider the Following:

1) Steam Hammer: a device that can quickly Flatten heated ingots and shape tools quicker (automatically). Has potential to craft more advanced machine parts by punching out shapes with metal dies (IE metal disc for saw mill).

2) Steam Engine: replacement for unimplemented vanilla piston, but powered with STEAM. OR engine that drives a "line shaft".

3) Water Pumps: Steam powered water pump that siphons water to Barrel or other storage container.

4) Saw Mill: a device that uses a metal saw disc powered by steam turbine or line shaft to create more planks per log.

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Consider the Following:

...

Pretty much everything you said is already "planned". Except Saw Mill, because current wood mechanics already gives you more planks than you ever need. Maybe if manual saw given less planks and some recipes replaced sticks with planks (ladder, fence, etc..), then maybe it would make sense.

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Pretty much everything you said is already "planned". Except Saw Mill, because current wood mechanics already gives you more planks than you ever need. Maybe if manual saw given less planks and some recipes replaced sticks with planks (ladder, fence, etc..), then maybe it would make sense.

not true at all, have you tried constructing houses with specific wood types to keep to a theme, or used carpenter's blocks? <--- horrendous woodsink carpenters blocks is. you need the block AND the wood to use as a cover on the block

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So, I finally found some time to clean up the code and set up a github repository.

You can get the source here : https://github.com/Euphoric/SteamAge

But don't expect much, I didn't really put much thought into this stuff. Most of it is done the first way I thought was possible.

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This looks like it will be very promising! Can't wait to give it a try! :D

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So, I finally found some time to clean up the code and set up a github repository.

You can get the source here : https://github.com/Euphoric/SteamAge

But don't expect much, I didn't really put much thought into this stuff. Most of it is done the first way I thought was possible.

 

 

very nice.. only one warning in your code. :)

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very nice.. only one warning in your code. :)

heh. Warnings are generally very easy and fast to get rid off.

If only Eclipse warned you about bugs and bad design. (but then, whole MC would be huge red .. thing)

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heh. Warnings are generally very easy and fast to get rid off.

If only Eclipse warned you about bugs and bad design. (but then, whole MC would be huge red .. thing)

 

Every time i look at all the MC code i see that huge red thing in my mind going "GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN!"...

 

thought it was worth a post. but kudos on the work man, hope it makes TFC even more progressive in ages.

 

P.s. try to program individual focuses at one time, such as your first planned function block, then make sure it integrates well with the data packet handling with forge, this isnt usually a major problem but it can lead to some nasty nasty nasty world saving problems.

Also keep checking opti-fine compatibility, i know this is a fire topic but realistically its something a mod maker has to get used o working with because so many people have problems without it(not everyone, but a lot,). 

 

It also would be cool to try to keep the machines upper med-game, give the players something to really work for so it gives that satisfaction of working hard to achieve the power of steam.  

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Good initiative! I was actually thinking about the possibilty of a similar mod just the other way.First step beyond the age of steel would be steam power, then after a while you would be able to use steam power to pump up oil which you initially only could use as a fuel but later could turn in to plastic (and craft unbreakable bottles!). And then we've got the whole age of electricity.

 

Too bad I'm writing my thesis at the moment, so I have no time to code. But come january, I'll probably have a bit more time on my hands and I'll definiatley revisit my ideas.

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give the players something to really work for so it gives that satisfaction of working hard to achieve the power of steam.  

That is biggest problem I have right now. Only ideas I have are simple time-saving machines. Nothing really "big" that would be worth the effort. I would really want people to brainstorm and suggest about this as much as they can.

 

 

First step beyond the age of steel would be steam power, then after a while you would be able to use steam power to pump up oil which you initially only could use as a fuel but later could turn in to plastic (and craft unbreakable bottles!). And then we've got the whole age of electricity.

That is one option. The second one is to go full Steam Punk and use steam directly as power source. Steam tools, steam machines, steam .. everything.

 

 

Too bad I'm writing my thesis at the moment

Same here, heh.

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Version 0.2 released.

I would really want to get feedback on the power hammer. 

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That is one option. The second one is to go full Steam Punk and use steam directly as power source. Steam tools, steam machines, steam .. everything.

 

Yeah, well, that would be one option. But I'm really not too fond of steam punk to be honest. My idea with the whole steam vs electricity was that steam would require a higher degree of maintnance and have bulkier, more expensive and localised power distribution, wheras when you progressed to electricity the wiring and distribution would be a lot easier to manage.

 

This is a bit how I envisioned my mod:

 

Stone age: Everything is pretty much vanilla, with the exception of the minecraft boat. The ordinary plank boat is removed and replaced with a slower (walking speed) canoe, crafted with logs and paddles.

 

Bronze age: Introducing the age of sailing. Using bronze, you'll be able to craft a small sailing boat out of planks that is faster than the canoe, provided that there is "wind" in the right direction where you are, otherwise it would be as slow as the canoe. The "wind" would be a vector field, derived from the gradient of the already present scalar temperature field.

 

Iron age: Introducing the age of mechanics. Using wrought iron you'll be able to craft a wind mill to hook up to the quern, powered by the earlier mentioned wind. This mechanical wind power would be impossible to transfer, and thus the windmill would have to be directly hooked up to the quern using the power from it. On the nautical front you'll be able to craft a slightly larger sailing vessel with chests onboard.

 

Steel age: Would allow you to build a slightly larger sailing vessel with more cargo space.

 

Age of steam: Once black steel is discovered, it would allow you to craft the boiler, piping and various appliences such as hooking up a steam powered quern, hammer, pistons, pumps and so forth. However, the range of how far you could practically transport the steam from the generation point to the consumption point would be rather limited, and considering that the only fuel so far would be coal it would be kind of tedious to operate. On the nautical front you'll be able to craft a steam powered ship, that's always fast irregardless of the wind.

 

Age of oil: Once you have the steam pumps you'd be able to pump up oil. Oil could be found earlier, but only brought up on a bucket by bucket fashion, and with out any real application other than perhaps as oil lamps. One might also implement a prior use of oil as a lubricant in mechanical devices, prolonging their durability. However, once you'll be able to pump it up in bulk, you'll be able to use it as a power source, giving a way to fuel the boilers in a less tedious way than coal. Note however that the internal combustion engine isn't available yet.

 

Age of electricty: I'm not excatly sure how to restrict the availability of this age, but probably I'd work in a restriction such as that you would require to have access to blue steel in order to craft an electric generator. This generator could be hooked up either to the wind turbine from the iron age providing a free but unreliable and limited power source, but also to a steam turbine allowing the centralised production of power which could then be transfered to a larger area. Many, tought not all, of the steam powered appliances would have a coresponding electrical device. And of course we've got electrical lighting. In order to make electrical lighting more attractive perhaps we need to put a time limit on earlier lighting technology. Maybe in such a way that a torches last for and ingame week and oillamps for an ingame month?

 

Age of internal combustion: Using forexample red steel it would be possible to craft internal combustion engines. These engines could be hooked up to generators to allow an easier and more maintnance free way of converting oil to electricity, and also it could be used to craft a diesel vessel that unlike the steam ship wouldn't need to be hand fed coal every so often, but could just be fueled up with oil when near a cistern. Also, I have quite a lot of ideas about petrochemical processing. For use in the combustion engines, the crude oil you pumped up would have to be processed.

 

Age of plastics:

Using processed oil you'd eventually be able to produce plastic, which could be used to substitute wood in many crafting recipes as well as be used to craft entirely new objects, such as plastic bottles that don't have the risk of breaking on use for example.

 

On a side note I also have an idea about making food spoil as a function of the surrounding temperature. In order not be spoiled, they would have to be stored in a chest with ice blocks (which could be harvested in a similary fashion as raw stone) which would be used up as time passes. This would provide an interesting trade off when chosing where to settle: If you settle near the equator, it would be easier to grow crops, but the food would spoil easier. If you settle far from the equator, the crops would grow slower, but the food wouldn't spoil as fast. In an SMP setting, this would lead to increased incentive for people to settle in different spots and conduct trade: Ice going toward the equator and vegetables and fruit going polewise. However, once the age of electricity is reach, this could be overridden with the use of electrical refridgerators.

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While all of you said sounds good and all, it is missing one point : challenge. It sounds nice if you want to role-play, but is is not that great as game.Challenge is when you need to overcome a problem. And in current MC, there are no real problems to solve. Survival? Just build a dirt cube. Food? 3x3 plot of potatoes is enough. Resource? Why? Seriously. MC is terrible from gameplay perspective. TFC fixes this somehow, but only for a little. It adds few more challenges, but that is not really enough.

 

Like I said, major problem I have with this mod is that I don't know what kind of challenges should I create. What kind of "problem" is there that needs "solving". Only things right now are convenience stuff like mill instead of quern, power hammer instead of manually hitting stuff and maybe sawmill to get more wood. There is nothing "steam power" would solve. And going even higher is even worse.

So I need to create a problem, that can only be solved using steam power. And even better, this kind of problem should show up only after player is able to get said steam power. And nothing comes to my mind right now. Right now, I'm creating it with hopes of creating interesting mechanics, but that probably won't be enough.

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It would seem to me this mod would only incite challenge through complexity, the more difficult it is to obtain, the more enjoyable the reward.

I hate to say it, but a lot of the tech mods out there do it best, multiple parts and manufactures to create on device and operate it.

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It would seem to me this mod would only incite challenge through complexity, the more difficult it is to obtain, the more enjoyable the reward.I hate to say it, but a lot of the tech mods out there do it best, multiple parts and manufactures to create on device and operate it.

I don't know. People often consider this tedious or grindy, instead of challenging and fun. 

For example, I'm fan of GregTech thanks to this. But we all know what public opinion about GT is.

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I don't know. People often consider this tedious or grindy, instead of challenging and fun. For example, I'm fan of GregTech thanks to this. But we all know what public opinion about GT is.

Two things to consider about that is that Gregtech has to compete against other Vanilla MC tech mods and that it came when people were too used to the Industrial Craft and Buildcraft efficiency.There is also a difference in audience when it comes to those Tech mods, but I cannot make a statement on that without guessing. I think if you do this mod the way you enjoy Tech mods (with the consideration for TFC standards) there is little were you can go wrong (especially when it is still a novel idea).
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One thing I'd like to see would be a powered dispenser replacement.

Steam power was originally used to pump water out of mines. This obviously isn't a problem inTFC, but you might be able to mod that in. Idk, I'm not a programmer.

If an inventory pass goes through, transportation might also be needed.

Maybe something one could set up to plant fields.

Just some ideas.

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