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GreenLeaf

Studying seeds..

16 posts in this topic

I was running around punching grass to find some seeds to plant when a cogwheel started spinning in my head and this idea is the outcome of it.

 

make seeds not have names anymore.

 

Make them instead visually different from each other! colour, size, shape or whatever could be made to be the only way for you to tell what kind of seed you're holding.

To figure out what kind of seed you've got you will need to plant it and wait for the outcome.

 

And then to put the player on the same ignorant spot the seeds could swap textures everytime he creates a new world. (hopefully this is actually possible)

 

It would be a rather exciting way to bring some research into the mod i reckon!

 

The player is now responsible for organizing and memorizing his seed stash or he won't know what the hell he just planted.

Lets also hypothesize that nametags nestles their ways into TFC.. could we then label chests and vessels?

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No thanks, leave it as it is, or you will cause a lot of trouble to my fields

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No thanks, leave it as it is, or you will cause a lot of trouble to my fields

=========================

 

I suppose horses shouldn't be added because my group in a PvP server would be defeated by horseback riders?

 

 

I'm all for this idea. In fact, I'd actually like to see more things done in this way.

 

ratios for alloys

Nutrient types of crops(maybe?)

Maybe even certain crafting recipes could be affected by world seed, mostly in the sense of how much or what resources are needed for it. (This one isn't particularly good)

Hunger amounts filled by different foods.

Stats for different armors and weapons could be slightly affected by seed.

Stats of mobs could be slightly affected by world seed.

 

The list goes on.

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If you want to have iron made from 10% of ore and 90% of coal or something then why not change the physics as well? Why not vary sounds between animals (cows clucking, wolves mooing, etc.)? Why not  Why not vary the differences between trees, rocks and ores themselves? Why not replace their textures so each new world will have them messed up? Why not hide the ore names and you have to "discover" which ore is which through trial and error?

 

The names are there for specific reasons (not to mention TFC code consistency). If you mine an ore, you have the knowledge to identify it (makes one wonder where that knowledge comes, but whatever...). The color, texture, hardness, weight and other factors determine what it exactly is. There already are a lot of things to remember to discern between various resources. Making it impossible to discern them correctly is pointless.

 

The same goes for rocks, trees, animals and plants. You suddenly don't expect eating something that looks like raw chicken meat to taste like a carrot. You don't expect planting a big blue acorn to see a small rose grow from it... 

 

Differences between various seed types, wood types, rock types, ore types, etc. are there for specific reasons - to discern them correctly.

 

One thing that I could be for is to turn off the naming for seeds (and possibly other resources), letting the player name them themselves. This would require a lot more thinking through and changes to let one examine a seed, an ore, a log, a rock, etc. This could be a new mode for survival, where Steve doesn't know everything about the objects around him and you have to visibly recognize everything around you by various means.

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Me likes this idea!!!!

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Research? How does planting the seed qualify as "research"?

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I get in Thaumcraft that you need to research things, but its just not necessary in TFC. The major different between this and Thaum is that Thaumcraft  needs resources. Its a mostly mid-late game mod. The researching needs tools and materials. I don't think cavemen spent time pondering if seeds grew into plants. they threw seeds into their refuse pile (most likely) and found later that they grew. It doesn't take intelligence to stick little bits into dirt and harvest them.

If seeds were given different pictures, the distinction between things like wheat, oat, and barley very hard to distinguish. It just isn't necessary. And it matters very little what you planted just before. I always have two farm sites so the nutrients can get back into the soil. The only time it would affect the player is if he planted multiple A-circle crops year after year in the same spot. even then, the only penalty is what, slower growth? I don't think people would care that much.

'Research' has never mattered much to early humans. It was mostly just trial and error

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-User was warned for this post- 

 

Allow me to make a better answer.

 

If you want to have iron made from 10% of ore and 90% of coal or something then why not change the physics as well? Why not vary sounds between animals (cows clucking, wolves mooing, etc.)? Why not  Why not vary the differences between trees, rocks and ores themselves? This has nothing to do with the suggestion i posted. i'm talking seeds here. not ore, mobs or sound.

 

Why not replace their textures so each new world will have them messed up? This is what i'm suggesting! Each time you make a world your seeds will have swapped textures with eachother and now you need to find out what seeds make what kind of plant.

 

Why not hide the ore names and you have to "discover" which ore is which through trial and error? Also what i'm suggesting! but for seeds. for ores? maybe. depends on what the Devs think.

 

The names are there for specific reasons (not to mention TFC code consistency).

And i think that the name for seeds (and merely the seeds, not the outcome) should be removed.

 

If you mine an ore, you have the knowledge to identify it (makes one wonder where that knowledge comes, but whatever...).

No! not whatever! why? once you figure out what it is, then you have the knowledge. wikipedia shouldn't help you with this!

 

The color, texture, hardness, weight and other factors determine what it exactly is.

the ores are good as they are, seeds on the other hand, if the names where to be removed (again, ONLY for the seeds) does need some more unique textures and colours so that the player can identify them once he learn to recognize them.

 

There already are a lot of things to remember to discern between various resources. Making it impossible to discern them correctly is pointless.

You're not really reading what i typed in the OP, look to the answer above. it shouldn't be impossible to know which seed is which if you keep your inventory organized, memorize the seeds textures and.. ah i don't know. it really shouldn't be that hard! the seeds names should be anonymous but instead you get a much more interesting way of identification!

 

The same goes for rocks, trees, animals and plants. You suddenly don't expect eating something that looks like raw chicken meat to taste like a carrot. You don't expect planting a big blue acorn to see a small rose grow from it... 

No! you don't expect a rose to come out of a blue acorn! but this time it did! and it will keep doing so until you create a new world! then it comes out of something else. that's the point! it won't make sense most of the time but hell, what does?

 

Differences between various seed types, wood types, rock types, ore types, etc. are there for specific reasons - to discern them correctly.

Again, seeds are the only thing being mentioned in the OP, whatever happens to wood, rock or ores are for another time.

the visual differences should be the only way to discern the seed. i don't feel like this would make the game any harder. whatever pops out of the ground will be eatable either way. rather it's to make farming a little more interesting.

 

One thing that I could be for is to turn off the naming for seeds (and possibly other resources), letting the player name them themselves. This would require a lot more thinking through and changes to let one examine a seed, an ore, a log, a rock, etc. This could be a new mode for survival, where Steve doesn't know everything about the objects around him and you have to visibly recognize everything around you by various means.

This is exactly what my suggestion is about.

Edited by GreenLeaf
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Research? How does planting the seed qualify as "research"?

you plant an unknown seed. you observe it as it grows. you find out what it is when you harvest.

  Experimentation Observation     Discovery

 

Research

 

As for HunterKain.

 

I think it's unfair of you to assume that cavemens wheren't scientists. Think about fire for example. do you really sit around rubbing two sticks together until fire occurs and then call that trial and error? no! modern humans have ALLWAYS been inquisitive. and once they found out that seeds makes plants they would be all over finding out what seeds created what kind of plant.And why should cereal seeds be harder to distinguish? Colour can still be applied to allow the player to identify the seeds! even if they share a grainlike texture! That's why unique textures will be important in order for this to work well!

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I support this thread! And Kain, I think he means the research of trial and error for the seeds. Research isn't always done in a lab. It can also be done at two tables with Scribing Tools on top :P or out in the world.

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I support this thread! And Kain, I think he means the research of trial and error for the seeds. Research isn't always done in a lab. It can also be done at two tables with Scribing Tools on top :P or out in the world.

 

Yeah pretty much! Thaumcraft is a cool mod but for TFC i would prefer to have research done by the player and not through a fancy achievements GUI.

Once a discovery has been made, say that you planted an unknown seed and it has finally grown enough so that you can actually see that they are green beans. (i gotta say again that the crops names should remain so if you're still unsure about what it is, just harvest it when it's ready) now that you know what these seeds in your hand does you better remember it. either remember it in your head or write it down in a book. the tools are all there really and it's not impossible. all you need is some good textures.

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I would see this suggestion made well if there was a really enormous change in the GUI for object descriptions:

1. Player would have to spent some time researching objects he uses (make a flat rock or any "special block" used as a Workbench to check the items size, color, hardness, etc. More advanced Workbenches would include more tools for this, even a simple ruler for measurements, a small hammer for breaking, a scalpel for cutting, cup of water for water absorption, etc.) to identify the object. Once identified additional info would be in the object description.

2. Player would be able to name the object from the Workbench even when it's not fully identified. Every such object would have the same name as the player defined. The attributes would be divided into tiers, where tier 1 could be discovered without any tools, tier 2 with some and tier 3 with all. Many similar objects would have similar tier 1 attributes, some tier 2 attributes but using tier 1, 2 and 3 attributes you would be able to discern each object.

3. As at the beginning most players usually don't care about growing food (as there are other matters), just like which type of wood they use to fire up the pit kiln, this could be done as well with copper tools and blocks.

 

I don't see a point where you have (in this case) seeds that have different size (wonder how you would show that, as even small rocks are pretty big compared to most seeds), texture, color, hardness, size of the rind, color inside, maybe even smell or taste and can't really show it properly. I am a bit generalizing, but many seeds are pretty similar, only small details discerning between them (if not the subtle color difference, then subtle change in shape or size).

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I like it I never thought of this! :D Maybe like they said up top, and apply this concept to other parts of the game to make TFC last longer as you play :)

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Even in really old games like the Sega game Dragon Crystal you had this...you find  rod or potion etc you had to first use it once in order to find out what it was/what it did. Until you had tried something there were random names used "Red Scroll" "Blue Rod" etc the nonce you discovered what it was, its name was filled in.

The point to food preparation recipes (all 73k+ of them,) to be tied to seed is to force manual discovery and make each world unique. Why then should this not be consistently the case wit other things?

Each ore mined could have its randomised 'bland name' then as you discover its properties by mixing with other things, trying to melt it, hammer it, carve it, grind it i a quern to make powder..for use as fertilizer or dyes or w/e its tooltip can be filled out.

If you cant discern a property immediately (eg dont have wood to get hot enough to melt it) you put it aside until you do. Wood would work similar..try burning different woods to see how hot they burn, how long they last etc then add this info to in game tooltips..no need to have such info on a wiki anymore then.

Once you know all properties of something its default name can be added so you know what it is, or you could give it your own name.

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Even in really old games like the Sega game Dragon Crystal you had this...

 

= = = = =

 

Older than that. Roguelike games had this, notably Nethack where it got randomized every darn game. Copper ring the firs time may have been a Ring of Fire Protection? Sure, next time watch it be something else. 

 

By the way? Not really pleased the idea of planting seeds without knowing what they are. All it is would be another step to busywork planting it and growing it before knowing it. Or checking the growing plant against the wiki, like most people would do anyway.

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