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Vagabond

[Suggestion] Basic Needs

16 posts in this topic

Hello,

 

At the moment we two basic needs, food and water. However, we are missing out on rest, which eleminates the need for shelter in the traditional sense. As of now, shelter is only needed to keep safe from mobs (which are very annoying and immersion breaking, for me at least). Shelter, traditionally, is to keep you safe from the elements.

 

On the topic of beds:

 

1: I'd like to see more in bed progression. Ex: Woven cot -> Straw bed -> Wool bed -> Feather bed

2: I'd like to see sleeping required.

3: I'd like to see benefits to sleeping on better quality beds.

 

On the topic of weather:

 

1: It should be dangerous, the main reason you create a shelter. If anyone has played the Skyrim mod "Frostfall", they should know what I speak about (except it should be all weather).

 

On the topic of mobs:

 

1: I don't personally care for creepers, zombies, or skeletons running about willy nilly. I'd much prefer to see them utilized in a more believable sense, such as something causing them to rise, and being able to destroy said thing in the area.

2: More natural mobs, with more believable dangers. Poisonous critters. Critters with big claws and teeth. Ect.

 

In short, It is my opinion that nature should be prioritized as the enemy, rather than walking maggot food. It should be dangerous submerging yourself in icy water. Should be dangerous walking into the desert without the ability to keep yourself cool. Going to a snowy peak without warm clothes should be a recipe for frostbite.

 

Cheers,

Michael

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Straw beds which set your spawn but do not let you sleep through the night and basic body temperature system are already being implemented in Build 78.

 

"Mysitcal" Monsters are eventually being moved underground, most likely into caves and dungeons after standard animals are complete.

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Straw beds which set your spawn but do not let you sleep through the night and basic body temperature system are already being implemented in Build 78.

 

"Mysitcal" Monsters are eventually being moved underground, most likely into caves and dungeons after standard animals are complete.

 

I'm just wondering if I'm a minority whom plays the game on hardcore. Spawn setting has no effect on you when you are dead when you die. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only reason a bed wouldn't let you sleep mechanically is to force players into putting themselves in danger by being caught by the night spawns. If the night spawns are being moved underground, then my previous assumption no longer matters. As I said in the main post, I believe weather combined with hunger/sleep/thirst should be one's true enemy.

 

In short, sleep deprivation is a serious ailment. Immersion and believablity are thrown to the side without a need to sleep, and the ability to do so in my opinion.

 

Another thing I would like to add (to the main post, too) is that Stone age weapons proved extremely effective against even mammoths, dire wolves, and sabre toothed cats (the evidence being their bones); Weapons technology beyond that was vanity and man's arms race against itself. So, I find myself wondering why it takes me so darn long to kill a little pig. . .The hole I put into it with a stone spear would be pretty much the same as the one I put into it with a metal one, maybe the stone one would be a bit more messy.

 

I'd also like to say that I really enjoy TFC, it happens to be the most realistic survival modification for Minecraft that I've played thus far. Some of the mechanics just feel arcady compared to others, and counter-productive to "[. . .}trying to present a world that feels real." in my opinion. Furthermore, it is hard to become immersed when you feel like you have the developer's hand on your shoulder nudging you in directions, and saying "No, can't be done" when you want to do something as simple as make something for you to go to sleep on. Such things are perfectly acceptable in a linear closed-world game...but in an open world sand-box game that claims to want to feel real?

 

Cheers,

Michael

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TFC does not claim to feel real. TFC aims for believablitly.

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TFC does not claim to feel real. TFC aims for believablitly.

 

 

And isn't reality believable?

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Hello,

 

TFC does not claim to feel real. TFC aims for believablitly.

 

The FAQ on the website says it is trying to present a world that feels real.

 

Working within the mechanics, things should be intuitive and sensible. For example, when I first started playing TFC I couldn't figure out how to get sticks. Because in reality (which is what is believable) when you chop down trees, the leaves and branches come with it. My logical mind connected the word stick to a branch smaller then the thickness of a tree trunk, but thicker then a twig which leaves attach directly onto the branch with. So I was chopping down trees left and right, figuring that maybe for balance reasons weapons/tool grade (thickness, lack of too much curvature, and lack of knots) wood were hard to find. Eventually after a half an hour I broke down and went to the wiki and found out that I had to beat each individual block of leaves to find that perfect branch.

 

The first thing you try to do (assuming you have any knowledge of how things work in the real world) in a game to produce a desired result (when you do not know how the game's mechanic works) is the believable thing. Realism and believability are they same thing when it comes to a game/sci-fi/fantasy. Things of the natural world act like our real natural world, things that aren't of our real world conform to the rules of the real world or have a ruleset of their own that work beside the real-world ruleset..

 

Going off my previous example about trees: One knows that a tree has branches (sticks). We believe that. One knows that if you chop into a tree long enough, it falls down and can be broken down into generally three categories: The logs, the branches, and the twigs (and their attached leaves). Except if we chop a tree down in TFC, we only get logs, and those come pre-broken down for us in manage one block chunks (unfortunantly). Not very believable to me; every time I chop a tree down or stand there giving a tree a buzz-cut It feels -forced-. It feels like I am playing a game rather then trying to roleplay a character trying to survive and thrive in a natural, hostile, but believable world.

 

Blacksmithing is very enjoyable, and feels realisitc. It just seems that the games focus is always on maintaining the blacksmith simulation, while being minimal or non-existant in simulating the rest of the world around it... to compliment it.

 

I apologize in advance if I offend anyone, and I'd like to reiterate that I really enjoy TFC. I just feel it could improve the simulation of other aspects of the world beside the (awesome) blacksmithing systems.

 

Cheers,

Michael

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Hello,

 

 

The FAQ on the website says it is trying to present a world that feels real.

 

Working within the mechanics, things should be intuitive and sensible. For example, when I first started playing TFC I couldn't figure out how to get sticks. Because in reality (which is what is believable) when you chop down trees, the leaves and branches come with it. My logical mind connected the word stick to a branch smaller then the thickness of a tree trunk, but thicker then a twig which leaves attach directly onto the branch with. So I was chopping down trees left and right, figuring that maybe for balance reasons weapons/tool grade (thickness, lack of too much curvature, and lack of knots) wood were hard to find. Eventually after a half an hour I broke down and went to the wiki and found out that I had to beat each individual block of leaves to find that perfect branch.

 

The first thing you try to do (assuming you have any knowledge of how things work in the real world) in a game to produce a desired result (when you do not know how the game's mechanic works) is the believable thing. Realism and believability are they same thing when it comes to a game/sci-fi/fantasy. Things of the natural world act like our real natural world, things that aren't of our real world conform to the rules of the real world or have a ruleset of their own that work beside the real-world ruleset..

 

Going off my previous example about trees: One knows that a tree has branches (sticks). We believe that. One knows that if you chop into a tree long enough, it falls down and can be broken down into generally three categories: The logs, the branches, and the twigs (and their attached leaves). Except if we chop a tree down in TFC, we only get logs, and those come pre-broken down for us in manage one block chunks (unfortunantly). Not very believable to me; every time I chop a tree down or stand there giving a tree a buzz-cut It feels -forced-. It feels like I am playing a game rather then trying to roleplay a character trying to survive and thrive in a natural, hostile, but believable world.

 

Blacksmithing is very enjoyable, and feels realisitc. It just seems that the games focus is always on maintaining the blacksmith simulation, while being minimal or non-existant in simulating the rest of the world around it... to compliment it.

 

I apologize in advance if I offend anyone, and I'd like to reiterate that I really enjoy TFC. I just feel it could improve the simulation of other aspects of the world beside the (awesome) blacksmithing systems.

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

First off, the FAQ page is about 2 years old; it was written when the mod was first released and desperately needs to be updated.

 

For the punching of leaves, think of it more as ripping the branches and twigs off of the tree. The reason that you don't get sticks and saplings every time you chop down a tree is for 2 main reasons. The first of which is inventory management. Player inventories would quickly be flooded with sticks and early game it would be annoying to have to keep throwing them out. Secondly is the main purpose of the scythe is for gathering sticks and saplings. If we make trees drop all the sticks and saplings, the scythe has essentially become a pointless tool.

 

The other thing that needs to be kept in mind is that this is a mod written for Minecraft, and not a game all on its own. Therefore many of the mechanics are kept in a way that there is still a hint of the Minecraft backbones. Hence getting individual log blocks instead of one massive trunk that needs to be cut into smaller pieces. Basically, the better mentality is to think "How does this work in Minecraft?" instead of "How does this work in reality?"

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With proclaimed focus on SMP, addition that will cater to Hardcore will break many things.

 

Because as far as I can tell, hardcore SMP is not really a thing. And laying down in bed doing nothing for five minutes flat is not something that is good for the game, immersion aside.

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Sleeplessness should be a bit like alcohol, with stacking negative effect with each passing night you don't sleep

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Sleeplessness should be a bit like alcohol, with stacking negative effect with each passing night you don't sleep

 

Now that is an idea I do like...

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Sleeplessness should be a bit like alcohol, with stacking negative effect with each passing night you don't sleep

 

It's a good idea, but what about SMP where people generally don't sleep very often?

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Hello,

 

With proclaimed focus on SMP, addition that will cater to Hardcore will break many things.

 

Because as far as I can tell, hardcore SMP is not really a thing. And laying down in bed doing nothing for five minutes flat is not something that is good for the game, immersion aside.

 

I could understand how this could pose a problem in SMP. I hadn't taken that under consideration as I only play alone; more then likely the reason why npcs aren't a welcomed topic here, either. I suppose one could say I am just as anit-social in my gaming habits as I am in real life. Not that I am suggesting the mod should alter it's proclaimed focus (which I was unaware of) on SMP to cater to my desires. Knowing that this mod favors mutliplayer aspects over single player would cause many of my suggestions to be made useless.

 

I apologise for my lack of consideration for those of you whom play multiplayer. It is so far off my radar that It doesn't even enter my mind to take that into account before posting my ideas/preferences.

 

Cheers,

Michael

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I don't play SMP either. I was, but our server died off around build 43 or 45.

Still, SMP focus for TFC is a thing.

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It's a good idea, but what about SMP where people generally don't sleep very often?

----------------------------

People won't sleep as much in SSP either, if beds don't skip nights (I'm not sure if this is implemented or planned. been playing Thaumcraft). You wouldn't need to skip the night in a bed, just rest in it for a bit.

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Why could the cake not be eaten and still had?

Many mods have configurable settings...and since TFC has a calendar and timer built in...configure how long a 'rest unit' is.

A Fatigue bar would be like the hunger/thirst bars - i represents how tired we are and it depletes a unit every day or something and one 'rest' replenishes the fatigue bar either to full if its a full nights sleep, or however many units are rested

 

different quality beds could be implemented to grant more rest units based on quality * length of sleep

rest should not NEED to be only at night. Sleep is something you typically do when tired - shift workers, hunters and other types work at night when conditions are better for them and sleep during the day.

 

Those who play in SMP could utilize a server side option that disables the fatigue bar since

a) as RL humans we DO log out and sleep/eat etc so in in-world terms that is when your steve is also resting in SMP, but in SSP the whole universe goes into stasis when we log out as it is not a persistent world.

B) There isn't any conceivable way to resolve the temporal distortions that would result in one person laying down to sleep for 8 hours at sunset and awaking an instant later to it being day, while the hunter goes out at night and is consciously 'awake'

 

If you went further down the path, how tired you are could effect combat effectiveness, chance of mistakes/errors or materials loss etc.

Could also implement modifiers such as foods to modify tiredness state and poisons/traps/drugs that make you sleepy etc

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[...]

 

Blacksmithing is very enjoyable, and feels realisitc. It just seems that the games focus is always on maintaining the blacksmith simulation, while being minimal or non-existant in simulating the rest of the world around it... to compliment it.

 

I apologize in advance if I offend anyone, and I'd like to reiterate that I really enjoy TFC. I just feel it could improve the simulation of other aspects of the world beside the (awesome) blacksmithing systems.

 

Cheers,

Michael

 

I believe you have a solid point here. The awesome blacksmithing system sets a high standard that some other aspects of the simulation don't quite live up to.

 

Now this isn't meant as criticism, it's just my own personal observation. Maybe the next steps in development should focus on bringing the other systems up to speed. Even if it's just minute changes that make some things a little more intuitive, so that the player doesn't have to ever ask "why can't I do this?"

 

Perhaps I can make an actual suggestion tomorrow after I've slept on it.

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