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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
AllenWL

Corpses, Food, and Butchering

22 posts in this topic

 When a mob dies, it turns into smoke and a bunch of items. And for some reason, while monsters are just as big, or bigger than animals, they give much less. Doesn't make much sense, does it? So I think when all mobs die(including you) it should drop a corpse. 

 

What a carcass(corpse) is, and what it does

A corpse won't be an item, but a block/mob thing(like minecarts), that spawns when the corresponding mob dies.

 
When a mob dies by fire, it will give a charred corpse. You cannot butcher a charred corpse. it will rot much faster than normal corpses, and when broken, will leave behind ashes.
Extremely rarely, a charred animal carcass can give around 5% of the meat it would have given otherwise, cooked, a charred zombie carcass can give a rotten flesh or two, etc. A charred player corpse will lose all food, wood, and organic material(grass, leaves, flowers, etc)
 

Corpses can be moved by using a jute rope, like animals(other than the fact that they don't move themselves). otherwise, you can pick it up with your hands, but that will make you unable to fight/interact with blocks/equip items/etc until you drop the corpse. Shift-right clicking a corpse will let you loot it, opening up a inventory where you can take it's belongings.

 

All  carcasses will rot ultimately being destroyed, and they will rot faster than raw meat(except skeletons). When a player's corpse rots away, all food and natural items(grass, leaves, flowers, possibly wood products) in the inventory will rot along with it, and what remains(metal/stone things, tools, some wood, etc) will drop as items.(I think having the rotting process be like the sapling growth[a timer, then a random tick-thingy] can reduce lag. Probably. I don't know a thing about coding)

 

However, rotting corpses will kill plants, attract scavengers, contaminate water, and spread sickness.

(see http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/5209-terrafirma-medicine-health/ by Moress for in-depth info on sickness[one idea per thread, so borrowing this a bit :P])

 

But lets say we spent the night merrily slaughtering defenseless undead, and now have a mountain-high pile of zombie carcasses.

Don't want that messing up our nice lawn, right? So how will we get rid of it?

 

1. Speed up the rotting processes

Simply speeding up the rotting process can dispose of all those carcasses piling up at your doorstep.

damp(water, rain, etc), dark, heat, dirt(well, the microbes in dirt), and rotten flesh can speed up the rotting process of a corpse admirably.

doesn't solve the problem of all that nasty rot, but it's cheep and it works

2.Burn it

If you set a corpse on fire, it'll burn down to nothing but ashes in a few moments
Simply right-click with a firestarter/flint and steel, or drag in into the flames.
The ashes might be annoying to clean up though.
3. Contain it
Dumping the corpse in a casket or coffin can stop the rot from spreading and contaminating other things quite well.
The only annoyance is that if you're not careful, wild creatures can break the coffins looking for a bite to eat, releasing the rot.
Better put it in a safe place.
4.Vaporize it
If all else fails, you can dump the corpse into lava to instantly vaporize it into nothing.
Now only if you could find lava.....
5. Dump it.
If all else fails, and you can't find lava.... just drag the carcass somewhere you can't see, say, a shallow cave, or maybe dig a big hole, then dump it in there, and let it rot away.
 

Now since you know what a carcass is and what it does, you should know how to properly prepare it for eating.

 

Preparing a corpse for usage

The simplest way to work a carcass is to mindlessly hack it to pieces with whatever you have.

However, this will near-completely wreck the carcass, and the most you can hope for are scraps, bones, and possibly a few bits of product(gunpowder, meat, etc[when I say few, I mean few, like no more than 160 ounces, or one or two items at most. You'll get a load of scraps though]).

The only exception to this is skeletons. You can safely hack it to bits and still get most of the drops although a few will be lost

 

But if you want everything you can get from that carcass, you'll need to butcher it.

To butcher something, you need a knife. You can butcher anywhere, but it's advised to do it in-doors, as the smell of meat might attract unwanted attention, and you can find yourself being butchered next.

Right-click the carcass with a knife to open up the butchering interface.

 

It should have a little panel telling you what you are butchering, and what stage it's on(skinning, cleaning, jointing), an output slot, a progress bar, a 'damage' bar, and four buttons(slice, slit, chop, cut). 

The progress bar would work like smiting, each button(slice, slit, chop, cut) moving a green arrow, your goal being lining it up with the red arrow.

Slice and chop will move the green arrow right, and slit and cut will move the green arrow left.

However, there will be no 'rules' that you have to follow. Instead, each button will increase the 'damage' bar, which decreases the amount of products that come out.

A button will not move the green arrow the same distance or increase the damage bar by the same amount on different carcasses or different butchering stages, and it is possible for a button to not move the damage bar at all.

 

Butchering is done in 3 stages.

1 skinning.

you skin the hide off the carcass. this results in hide, sheepskin, or feathers depending on what you are butchering.

Slit and slice give the least damage in this stage

2 cleaning. 

You chop off the head, remove the tail and hooves, remove the guts, and otherwise get rid of everything that is not meat or bones. results in scraps or string, depending on what you are butchering

There are no (major) differences in damage in this stage

After you clean the carcass, it will rot at the same speed as raw meat, and can be hung and salted/smoked to last longer.

3 jointing.

you joint carcass into usable joints. results in joints

Chop and cut gives the least damage in this stage,

 

Note*

Some carcasses will not go along the same rout as described.

Zombies and spiders will go straight to stage two(because I really don't know what you'll get from skinning zombies or spiders)

Squids and creepers will go straight to stage two, but unlike the zombie, it will need no further processing(squids have no joints, and people say creepers are plants, so.....)

Skeletons will go straight to stage three, for obvious reasons

 
Preserving the carcass

Wild animals(like bears, wolves, giant spiders and zombies) eat a corpse(of all stages), damaging it ultimately destroying it. keeping your meat in a safe place is necessary to preserve it(unless you want to feed your wolves that way, I suppose)

 

After you skin the meat, you can hang it on a meat hook(drag to hook, then right click hook[while holding onto/dragging the carcass]) This can be used to store meat you don't need for now. (for example, you needed lots of leather so you slaughtered lots of cows, but you don't need the meat, and don't want to waste durability getting it cleaned and jointed) You can salt it by rubbing salt on it, or smoke it by putting a firepit under it to preserve it for even longer.

You cannot hang the carcass of creepers, zombies, spiders or skeletons to preserve it.

 

Items added and what they do.

Scraps: can be used to bait fishing rods(better chance of getting a fish), or fed to your pets.

 

Joints: Each is worth 320 oz of meat. can be cut into two normal pieces of meat, yielding a bone in the process.

 

Spider meat: Has a chance of poison. Chance lowered when cooked. Gotten from butchering a spider Only makes poor meals

 

meat hooks: made with metal ingots in a J shape. yields 6 can be placed on below or to the side of a block. Made with any metal, and the only difference is color

 

Ash: Placeable block. It is made/placed in layers, like snow or charcoal, it can be broken with bare hands, but needs a shovel to yield drops. Dropped as a item from charred corpses, or created(in block form) when a carcass burns

Can be used as black dye

 

Changes

Rotten flesh can now be eaten and is counted in oz like other meat

has a high chance of poison. Chance lowers when cooked. Only makes terrible meals

 

 

Changelog

Edit: some things removed to fit in with the one idea per post rule

Edit2: Edited after the 0.78 update added lots of things, and to better work with the Botany & Food post by Moress.

And also to remove some of the needless ideas, refine other ideas, add a bit more, and make it easier to read(I do hope I succeeded in the last goal).

Edit3: Minor changes

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butchering has been discussed, but no initiative has been taken towards it.

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butchering has been discussed, but no initiative has been taken towards it.

 

that a 'yes' or a 'no'? lol

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lol, well, why a butcher's knife? no sense and... don't code pests, its enough with winter :(

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lol, well, why a butcher's knife? no sense and... don't code pests, its enough with winter :(

 

 

 

Um... because knives come in different types with different uses are all different?

You don't use a filleting knife for cutting cheese, and you don't use a cheese knife for cutting your steak. you don't use carving knives for hunting and you defiantly don't use skinning knives to cut bread. Having different knife types makes sense, it's more practical, and more efficient. 

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small corpses (chickens and such) can be dragged by hand(right-click with a empty hand, cant change hotbars or attack/interact while dragging. crouch speed). can be dragged up a single block, but will take some time.

 

I would like to see a grown man that can easily move a log, but gets overburdened by a chicken corpse. Or I'd rather like to see this monster chicken.

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Um... because knives come in different types with different uses are all different?You don't use a filleting knife for cutting cheese, and you don't use a cheese knife for cutting your steak. you don't use carving knives for hunting and you defiantly don't use skinning knives to cut bread. Having different knife types makes sense, it's more practical, and more efficient.

Excuse me? More practical and efficient? So they should go back and make dozens more item ID's for bone-handles tools? And a new sprite for each tool made with a different stone? A knife is a very versatile tool by itself, it doesn't need different types. The knife we have is used for refining grains, harvesting straw, and a pretty good weapon. It feels lie the knife was meant to be an all-purpose tool, doesn't it? Neolithic people didn't have fancy knives, but they dealt with it pretty well. Too much detail is bad. That's why we don't have long, broad, and bastard swords, rapiers, falchions, and all those fancy weapons.And: different bait for different animals. Pigs, sheep, and cows cal be attracted by shift-right clicking grains onto the ground.
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Excuse me? More practical and efficient? So they should go back and make dozens more item ID's for bone-handles tools? And a new sprite for each tool made with a different stone? A knife is a very versatile tool by itself, it doesn't need different types. The knife we have is used for refining grains, harvesting straw, and a pretty good weapon. It feels lie the knife was meant to be an all-purpose tool, doesn't it? Neolithic people didn't have fancy knives, but they dealt with it pretty well. Too much detail is bad. That's why we don't have long, broad, and bastard swords, rapiers, falchions, and all those fancy weapons.And: different bait for different animals. Pigs, sheep, and cows cal be attracted by shift-right clicking grains onto the ground.

/

To be honest, I really liked the variety of stone tools made with different stones and the bone-handle tools. It really feels like I am in the Stone Age, especially with the bone handles.

 

While it might be a hassle to create more item ID's and sprites for each tool created with bones and different sticks and stones, I find that it really adds to the immersion of TFC. The variety in colors and attention to detail all adds to the aesthetics. Heck, if the developers made each different type of stick and stone have varieties of stats in terms of tool usage, that would really add to the immersion, and may even prompt one to find stronger sticks for heavier stones.

 

As for the different types of knives, knives are a versatile tool. However, what I think of different types of knives is that each of them are specialized to be better in one task than the other, in some way. For instance, a regular knife would do well against hostiles, but a combat knife is designed to cut through flesh better and faster than regular knives, and they feel more flexible than stocky, which would be ideal for a small-arms combat weapon. Regular knives would be good for cutting flesh in butchering, but the design of butcher knives would make it ideal to cut through tough muscle and skin without severely damaging the corpse.

 

Having different varieties of tools would not only further the modification's immersion, it would also add to the variety of tools. Having one type of tool is fine and dandy, but it would either become boring, after a while, or it would be a little impractical for a task and it would need extensive modifications. There are reasons why tools have different varieties of them. Having a variety in tools would also mean that the player will have to get these specialized tools so that they can either get an upper advantage in a fight, get better rewards from harvesting certain resources, faster digging, and essentially better efficiency.

 

However, because of the idea of tools being specialized, I think in order to balance it out, they would have to be created with metals. I would think that there would be a huge number of problems that go along with varieties of tools, but I also imagine there might be work-around's to most of these problems. The only things that I cannot see being avoided are the creation of sprites and more item ID's, but if the varieties of tools are executed properly, then I think the idea of adding detail to tools would be worthwhile.

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Excuse me? More practical and efficient? So they should go back and make dozens more item ID's for bone-handles tools? And a new sprite for each tool made with a different stone? A knife is a very versatile tool by itself, it doesn't need different types. The knife we have is used for refining grains, harvesting straw, and a pretty good weapon. It feels lie the knife was meant to be an all-purpose tool, doesn't it? Neolithic people didn't have fancy knives, but they dealt with it pretty well. Too much detail is bad. That's why we don't have long, broad, and bastard swords, rapiers, falchions, and all those fancy weapons.And: different bait for different animals. Pigs, sheep, and cows cal be attracted by shift-right clicking grains onto the ground.

 

Um... because knives come in different types with different uses are all different?

You don't use a filleting knife for cutting cheese, and you don't use a cheese knife for cutting your steak. you don't use carving knives for hunting and you defiantly don't use skinning knives to cut bread. Having different knife types makes sense, it's more practical, and more efficient. 

 

As HunterKain said, sadly ancient peoples weren't fancy. There was no specific knife for cutting cheese, or bread. As long as it is a stone/metal piece with a sharp blade, it is useful.

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I like the concept, although one challenge to overcome is the fact that on a server corpses could be piled up and become unmanageable. I know several people who wouldn't really care about cleaning up bodies. I've also seen just awful people walk into a farm and kill everything there, I would have no reason to want most of the meat from it, I have plenty as is, maybe the farm was specifically for milk, or wool, so of course I'd just find more animals and push the bodies aside. The same awful person could kill everyone's sheep and cows, leaving hundreds of bodies piled in random bits of the server, and it's not just that, someone could be defending their home from zombies for the night, and considering that there is absolutely no purpose for rotten flesh, few people would care to do anything with the body. Yes I do understand where you say the body would rot in a few days, but what about the person who's only source of food was just killed and they have to go for an hour, well, there's twenty minutes in a minecraft day, come back in an hour and you're too late, guy starves, so that small of a time limit would have to be tweaked to be either longer, or have some form of solution for preservation, which would in turn contribute to my total point of this paragraph so far. What I'm getting at is that it would be significantly lag-producing. If there was some way of which to lessen the lag IE making the corpse somewhat of a block, perhaps done by replacing the block under the death point with a sort of overtop sprite image of the corpse, rather than an actual entity, it would significantly lessen the lag, allow someone to hide the body by slapping a block over it, and could even server the purpose of a "nice", slightly bloody, dead animal decoration for whoever might be into that kind of thing. There is of course the problem with the fact that it could be challenging to code the identification of where the animal died, and that location telling the block beneath it to become another block (which albeit isn't much different from the block it was, mostly just retextured). And possibly that could create more lag than having entities would. I don't know. Obviously this idea just came straight out of my mind without much planning, but it could be a solution to the lag created by having an entity. Thanks for your time.

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I like the concept, although one challenge to overcome is the fact that on a server corpses could be piled up and become unmanageable. I know several people who wouldn't really care about cleaning up bodies. I've also seen just awful people walk into a farm and kill everything there, I would have no reason to want most of the meat from it, I have plenty as is, maybe the farm was specifically for milk, or wool, so of course I'd just find more animals and push the bodies aside. The same awful person could kill everyone's sheep and cows, leaving hundreds of bodies piled in random bits of the server, and it's not just that, someone could be defending their home from zombies for the night, and considering that there is absolutely no purpose for rotten flesh, few people would care to do anything with the body. Yes I do understand where you say the body would rot in a few days, but what about the person who's only source of food was just killed and they have to go for an hour, well, there's twenty minutes in a minecraft day, come back in an hour and you're too late, guy starves, so that small of a time limit would have to be tweaked to be either longer, or have some form of solution for preservation, which would in turn contribute to my total point of this paragraph so far. What I'm getting at is that it would be significantly lag-producing. If there was some way of which to lessen the lag IE making the corpse somewhat of a block, perhaps done by replacing the block under the death point with a sort of overtop sprite image of the corpse, rather than an actual entity, it would significantly lessen the lag, allow someone to hide the body by slapping a block over it, and could even server the purpose of a "nice", slightly bloody, dead animal decoration for whoever might be into that kind of thing. There is of course the problem with the fact that it could be challenging to code the identification of where the animal died, and that location telling the block beneath it to become another block (which albeit isn't much different from the block it was, mostly just retextured). And possibly that could create more lag than having entities would. I don't know. Obviously this idea just came straight out of my mind without much planning, but it could be a solution to the lag created by having an entity. Thanks for your time.

/

well, we could always burn the corpse into cinder...

or, we could dig a big pit, toss 'em in, then cover the lot in dirt.

for a person running around killing animals... ban em for greifing,

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Excuse me? More practical and efficient? So they should go back and make dozens more item ID's for bone-handles tools? And a new sprite for each tool made with a different stone? A knife is a very versatile tool by itself, it doesn't need different types. The knife we have is used for refining grains, harvesting straw, and a pretty good weapon. It feels lie the knife was meant to be an all-purpose tool, doesn't it? Neolithic people didn't have fancy knives, but they dealt with it pretty well. Too much detail is bad. That's why we don't have long, broad, and bastard swords, rapiers, falchions, and all those fancy weapons.And: different bait for different animals. Pigs, sheep, and cows cal be attracted by shift-right clicking grains onto the ground.

/

 yes, fancy knives aren't necessary, and we can do without, but having different knives ARE more efficient than just using a multi-purpose one. specializing can take more resources, but it is a more efficient way of doing things. There is a type of scissors designed especially for cutting string. While you can use normal scissors to cut string, using the scissors made for cutting string make a cleaner cut without damaging the string. A bread knife can cut bread easily, while a straight bladed utility knife needs more effort to cut bread, and can crush the bread while cutting.

Same reason you cut wood with saws, hunt with guns, and fish with a fishing rod

You can cut wood with a knife or you can even smooth it down using sandpaper. But we use saws. Why? because it is a lot more efficient and practical.

We can hunt with a wooden club, but we don't, because it's not as efficient.

You can shoot a fish with a gun to catch it, we can spear it, but we use a fishing rod because it's a lot more practical.

A all-propose tool lets you do lots of things with it, but it sacrifices precision and efficiency to do so.

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As HunterKain said, sadly ancient peoples weren't fancy. There was no specific knife for cutting cheese, or bread. As long as it is a stone/metal piece with a sharp blade, it is useful.

/

They also didn't have saws and hammers and shovels, nor did they have doors or tool racks or beds

Games don't have to follow reality, or history, it just has to be beliveable

 

and fun.

 

Though I suppose that some people might think making a butcher's knife when there is a knife already in game annoying or useless

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I love the idea of standing atop a pile of corpses after a long battle, watching the glorious sunrise. In response to removing the corpses, why not just hack through them with an axe?

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Actually, I did think of that. If you look right under the 'preparing a carcass' part, you can see

 

The simplest way to work a carcass is to mindlessly hack it to pieces with whatever you have.

However, this will near-completely wreck the carcass, and the most you can hope for are scraps, bones, and possibly a few bits of product(gunpowder, meat, etc[when I say few, I mean few, like no more than 160 ounces, or one or two items at most. You'll get a load of scraps though]).

Didn't put it in with 'disposing the corpses' bit because you actually do get product out of it, so it's more of a processing the corpse rather than disposing of it.

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I love the idea of standing atop a pile of corpses after a long battle, watching the glorious sunrise. In response to removing the corpses, why not just hack through them with an axe?

 

I want them to occasionally stand up again and walk around (all dem corpses, not just monster ones). 

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necro?

 

We've talked more about carcasses since this was originally suggested. I think at this point it's an idea we like (not specifically how it's outlined in this post, but the concept, as we haven't committed to many details yet). The overall appeal to the system is that it would be more difficult to move killed animals, as carcasses would most likely be too large to carry. The meat on the animal wouldn't have to despawn as a vanilla item, and could instead rot naturally, and it allows things like meat hangers or more advanced food handling. It's still just an idea, more of a "Wouldn't it be nice?" but I think bioxx and I both agree that if it isn't done right, it probably shouldn't be done at all. It would feel like an addition to a system that works and not a requirement, so there's no strong impetus to implement it. Unless one of us comes up with a fully-formed, amazing mechanic or way to implement it, (which certainly isn't unheard of) it probably won't happen for the foreseeable future.

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I like the concept, although one challenge to overcome is the fact that on a server corpses could be piled up and become unmanageable. I know several people who wouldn't really care about cleaning up bodies. I've also seen just awful people walk into a farm and kill everything there, I would have no reason to want most of the meat from it, I have plenty as is, maybe the farm was specifically for milk, or wool, so of course I'd just find more animals and push the bodies aside. The same awful person could kill everyone's sheep and cows, leaving hundreds of bodies piled in random bits of the server, and it's not just that, someone could be defending their home from zombies for the night, and considering that there is absolutely no purpose for rotten flesh, few people would care to do anything with the body. Yes I do understand where you say the body would rot in a few days, but what about the person who's only source of food was just killed and they have to go for an hour, well, there's twenty minutes in a minecraft day, come back in an hour and you're too late, guy starves, so that small of a time limit would have to be tweaked to be either longer, or have some form of solution for preservation, which would in turn contribute to my total point of this paragraph so far. What I'm getting at is that it would be significantly lag-producing. If there was some way of which to lessen the lag IE making the corpse somewhat of a block, perhaps done by replacing the block under the death point with a sort of overtop sprite image of the corpse, rather than an actual entity, it would significantly lessen the lag, allow someone to hide the body by slapping a block over it, and could even server the purpose of a "nice", slightly bloody, dead animal decoration for whoever might be into that kind of thing. There is of course the problem with the fact that it could be challenging to code the identification of where the animal died, and that location telling the block beneath it to become another block (which albeit isn't much different from the block it was, mostly just retextured). And possibly that could create more lag than having entities would. I don't know. Obviously this idea just came straight out of my mind without much planning, but it could be a solution to the lag created by having an entity. Thanks for your time.

I have an idea to deal with that scavengers they would eat the bodies when they start to decay and speed it up plus maybe a config option for it for the servers that there are no corpses 

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I'd just like to be able to make a glass vat full of pickling liquid and dunk (apologies to Dunkleosteus) them in, displaying their mangled bodies to my victims.

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I have an idea to deal with that scavengers they would eat the bodies when they start to decay and speed it up plus maybe a config option for it for the servers that there are no corpses

Buzzards could be attracted to the dead corpses and would feast upon them, along with wolves and bears.

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