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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
corki99

The probability of large kingdoms in TFC

Do you think that large kingdoms are possible?   26 members have voted

  1. 1. Do ya?

    • Yes
      9
    • No
      6
    • (neutral)
      1
    • Its not as simple as that
      12

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

34 posts in this topic

For me personally I do not think big kingdoms are possible. Only small clans may prevail. The reason for this is that even if you do manage to found a kingdom can you really trust people? For all you know in a small mining village there are rebels planning to grief the capitol. Small clans can exist because people are invited personally and they probably know and trust them not to betray you.

 

So! what do you think. vote and describe why you voted for that!

 

But it's OK if you don't what to explain. BUT, if you don't, i have no choice but to burn your house down with a combustible lemon!

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The only way to get big kingdoms is to reward people for playing together in bigger groups. People aren't going to group up on their own, they are going to stick with the few people they know and leave others to fend for themselves.

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if there were things to value in terrafirmacraft as much as life, maybe people could have big kingdoms with people working for them, unless there were npcs that would have random plot every now and then to overthrow you but bioxx said hes not implementing them :/

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Did you guys know that the whole regular Multiplayer TFC community ATM is about 25 people max ?

 

The player base is so small and there's so many servers.

 

"Kingdom" is a dream.

 

Kind of sad but true !

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Hm. All very good points, although i'm still standing at "big kingdoms wont last long".

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Hm. All very good points, although i'm still standing at "big kingdoms wont last long".

well that happened with rome, except its more sensitive in tfc where just having 10 people is a bit risky

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I've staffed many RP servers that have large kingdoms and outlying towns, however, you need a reason to motivate players to create large cities. For our server, it was wars with other NPC nations (which the staff built and DM'ed), and for protection against raids. there are many different walls that have been built up and torn down due to this. 

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What my point of in this thread is if their were no plug-ins, no rules, just lots of players not being influenced by gods (admins and moderators).

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I think the TerraFirmaCraft comunnity is more trustworthy than any Minecraft comunnity. The TFC game itself "makes life harder" and a hard life usually raises fair, humble people, like in the case of peasants or other poor people. Thats why you see vanilla kids missbehaving, griefing, stealing, and doing other evil things. Arrogance consumes them. But althrough I still see this on TFC, our comunnity is more mature, and that is in part what I like most of this mod even, rather than the mod itself. I can still find some griefers, like LegoPlayback (if you read this Lego, piss off). And a possible solution for betrayers if they are some yet is, PUNISHMENT. Death penalties, exiles (I don't believe in jails) and such are the cure for harassments, killings, and thefts. But I believe is that the real issue of the TFC kingdoms is simple: Our comunnity is TOO SMALL. We need MORE people playing TFC. We need to make the mod interesting, making the addons better, making more Livestreams and Let's Plays, adventure maps like the ones I may make on TFC Build 78, and the last thing is that, stop whitelisting servers. That limits many people's options, and althrough its possible to hold down griefing, false applications do exist. Liars are our main issue, and whitelisting doesn't help. In other words, the world is full of liars, and liars are immune to whitelisting. So stop it server owners, its not useful and personally annoys me.

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I think the TerraFirmaCraft comunnity is more trustworthy than any Minecraft comunnity. The TFC game itself "makes life harder" and a hard life usually raises fair, humble people, like in the case of peasants or other poor people. Thats why you see vanilla kids missbehaving, griefing, stealing, and doing other evil things. Arrogance consumes them. But althrough I still see this on TFC, our comunnity is more mature, and that is in part what I like most of this mod even, rather than the mod itself. I can still find some griefers, like LegoPlayback (if you read this Lego, piss off). And a possible solution for betrayers if they are some yet is, PUNISHMENT. Death penalties, exiles (I don't believe in jails) and such are the cure for harassments, killings, and thefts. But I believe is that the real issue of the TFC kingdoms is simple: Our comunnity is TOO SMALL. We need MORE people playing TFC. We need to make the mod interesting, making the addons better, making more Livestreams and Let's Plays, adventure maps like the ones I may make on TFC Build 78, and the last thing is that, stop whitelisting servers. That limits many people's options, and althrough its possible to hold down griefing, false applications do exist. Liars are our main issue, and whitelisting doesn't help. In other words, the world is full of liars, and liars are immune to whitelisting. So stop it server owners, its not useful and personally annoys me.

 

Hm, also a good point. Im still in the "big kingdoms don't last long" but its in the lower end of the spectrum

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If you want big kingdoms, there is only one possible solution: Get Terra Firma to be known by many people. Our comunnity is too small to build kingdoms. Want at least one? Get more people. And, to get that people to more likely enjoy the mod, we need it to be worked out of beta first, and we must leave that to our dear Bioxx and Dunk.

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If you want big kingdoms, there is only one possible solution: Get Terra Firma to be known by many people. Our comunnity is too small to build kingdoms. Want at least one? Get more people. And, to get that people to more likely enjoy the mod, we need it to be worked out of beta first, and we must leave that to our dear Bioxx and Dunk.

 

The problem with that although already stated is that with more people there are strangers that you don't have empathy for and it is to easy for people to steal stuff from others and grieving people, a server with no rules even in TFC will rarely form a community and it will only last in a small group. Even on servers where the average person on per week is 10 you occasionally get a person that destroys your stuff and then never goes back on. TerraFirmaCraft obviously has a good way of getting around with little trolling because I am here and I am typically passive. A small clan could last until something happens in real life such as a vital member leaving, a large kingdom however will not last long and although it would be nice for reasons already stated and no real punishment I don't think a kingdom/city or even an empire could last a TFC year. 

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The use of MyTown plugin makes stuff simpler, griefers are not a problem, another issue I found recently is that on some servers surviving alone is SUPPORTED. The more people survive alone the less kingdoms arise. Team work should be encouraged. If you want to survive alone because "I dont want my gameplay spoiled if you give me steel just because I joined a steel town". Then hell dont waste resources on a server. Go play singleplayer, that for some reasons its there. Use your brain. You are a human, not a sheep. Wanna play a full gameplay alone? Don't get in servers. When you get in a server, you intend to find someone to survive with. Your gameplay WILL be spoiled. So I'm sorry for you people who survive alone in servers. You are doing wrong. You got your singleplayer where, you wont be griefed, you wont be banned, you wont be mocked, you wont be "spoiled", and wont complicate the lives of people like me, that intend to arise factions to survive altogether.

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What is this all about? Needs explaining

 

It explains it on the title, on the post, and on the poll

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Title still doesn't explain it entirely.  Are you guys talking about multiplayer servers?  If so, then there definitely needs to be a number of mature people willing to work together to make a large kingdom.  There definitely needs to be some kind of social structure in place.

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Correct, TFC is balanced towards Multiplayer and not Singleplayer; so the majority of the discussion that takes place on these forums is in regards to mulitplayer servers.

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A good way to make a kingdom is not really using players in it's entirety. With custom NPCs and an owner that allows it, you could "buy" NPCs. Other good one would be using people you know IRL.

 

And well, if a large kingdom was ever formed, I would support this social class:

 

-King, at least 1

-Wisemen, Nobility & Priests, at least 5 (I believe in mysticism and alchemy rather than modern science)

-Merchants, Peasants... at least 10

 

I don't believe in slavery as well. So I didn't put slaves. Soliers aren't really needed. Just equip your peasants with swords. But this is the social class I suggest. WIth this social class, a minimum of 12-16 people would be needed. Yes, it WILL be hard to make large kingdoms in TFC.

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I thought about this for a little bit and I realized something, kingdoms or a group larger than 30 typically only occur because people must form together to survive against something. The biggest reasons are barbaric tribes such as the Huns or Religion, and that food in TFC is far too easy, in most parts of the world food takes nearly a year to grow in TFC the amount of food provided is much higher than in Real life. Large farms were made for even small towns so that bugs and parasites would not eat all of the crops which isn't a feature in TFC along with crop failure and wild fires. Although this is a partially good thing there isn't enough people to need a kingdom or to construct one in a non-ludicrous amount of time. Also because of the ease of TFC and lack of permanent  death in servers there aren't any barbaric peoples to unite against. Because of that servers may have large building that are inhabited by people that either are at the highest technology and have spent most of their free time or those whom use copper and bronze tools. And because of the fact that the creators of the mod prefer believability over realism large kingdoms of over 50 people will most likely not occur unless forced by a higher power (which is what I would compare to as religion.)

 

I am not saying that the game should be changed to format large kingdoms the ease of TFC merely makes it too easy to live alone with the fact that in Real life survival alone far from civilization would last you at max a year or two if you are very lucky.

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 And because of the fact that the creators of the mod prefer believability over realism...

At last, someone thinks like me!! :lol:

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I think that for there to be big kingdoms, there needs to be at least 6 things

1. a good leader.

For a big kingdom to appear, we need a good leader to lead them, to convince people to come, and to stay, to settle arguments, and most importantly, to make fair and reasonable rules and to make people keep those rules.

2. Danger or hardship

There needs to be some sort of danger or hardship that cannot be easily conquered alone. Something to make people group up, stay in the group, and most importantly, they have to fear, or at least be bothered by the idea of getting kicked out. A reason to make people want to stay together

3.A army/police force

A specialized force with the best weapons and armor. they exist to keep people safe, and more importantly, to reinforce the rules and to make people feel safe

4. Time

The leader and the lawkeeping force should be on as much as possible to keep order. if they are not present, greifers and thieves might come out. they must be on as much as possible make sure the rules are kept.

5. Currency

You need a form of currency. With currency, you can pay people to work for you, and sell things for money, gather tax, etc. You have to make sure that you always have something worth paying for to prevent the currency from becoming useless

6. Income

Tax is needed. No person will follow a leader that has less then them, and cannot provide for them, nor will the lawkeeping force work for free(not likely). Tax should be so while people don't feel too weighed down by it, it should be plenty to run the kingdom. Markets, city mines, war/raiding parties can help with your income.

7. Punishments., and rewards

Not jail or something, but punishments like exile, taking away items, paying more tax, having to work until he gets a certain number of items(like mining or wood cutting), suicide jobs, etc. Rewards should be money, food, paying less tax, getting a worker, etc

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I think that for there to be big kingdoms, there needs to be at least 6 things

1. a good leader.

For a big kingdom to appear, we need a good leader to lead them, to convince people to come, and to stay, to settle arguments, and most importantly, to make fair and reasonable rules and to make people keep those rules.

2. Danger or hardship

There needs to be some sort of danger or hardship that cannot be easily conquered alone. Something to make people group up, stay in the group, and most importantly, they have to fear, or at least be bothered by the idea of getting kicked out. A reason to make people want to stay together

3.A army/police force

A specialized force with the best weapons and armor. they exist to keep people safe, and more importantly, to reinforce the rules and to make people feel safe

4. Time

The leader and the lawkeeping force should be on as much as possible to keep order. if they are not present, greifers and thieves might come out. they must be on as much as possible make sure the rules are kept.

5. Currency

You need a form of currency. With currency, you can pay people to work for you, and sell things for money, gather tax, etc. You have to make sure that you always have something worth paying for to prevent the currency from becoming useless

6. Income

Tax is needed. No person will follow a leader that has less then them, and cannot provide for them, nor will the lawkeeping force work for free(not likely). Tax should be so while people don't feel too weighed down by it, it should be plenty to run the kingdom. Markets, city mines, war/raiding parties can help with your income.

7. Punishments., and rewards

Not jail or something, but punishments like exile, taking away items, paying more tax, having to work until he gets a certain number of items(like mining or wood cutting), suicide jobs, etc. Rewards should be money, food, paying less tax, getting a worker, etc

 

What about a death penalty? Like, take the pep to the town square and slay him in front of everyone and take his stuff, if he doesn't want to be exiled.

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What about a death penalty? Like, take the pep to the town square and slay him in front of everyone and take his stuff, if he doesn't want to be exiled.

kill him and take his stuff?

so hunger/thirst/health penalty, slowness debuff, level loss,

plus his stuff get taken away.

 

That could work.

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kill him and take his stuff?

so hunger/thirst/health penalty, slowness debuff, level loss,

plus his stuff get taken away.

 

That could work.

 

Gallows are pros, viva death penalty! Screw jails!

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I thought about this for a little bit and I realized something, kingdoms or a group larger than 30 typically only occur because people must form together to survive against something. The biggest reasons are barbaric tribes such as the Huns or Religion, and that food in TFC is far too easy, in most parts of the world food takes nearly a year to grow in TFC the amount of food provided is much higher than in Real life. Large farms were made for even small towns so that bugs and parasites would not eat all of the crops which isn't a feature in TFC along with crop failure and wild fires. Although this is a partially good thing there isn't enough people to need a kingdom or to construct one in a non-ludicrous amount of time.

 

In RL society, taking apart the concept of pests, not all people were farmers. On a single medieval kingdom only half the people were farmers. Others were priests, nobles, and even I highly doubt soldiers were farmers. So I think food production in TFC is good as it is.

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