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AllenWL

Explosives, a use for gunpowder.

72 posts in this topic

The proper use of support beams has become almost a requirement in B78. Cobble will fall sideways as well as down (like dirt) for better cave-ins, and if you happen to get caught in a collapse, there is a very high probability that it will be instant death. A collapse can also break support beams now if they aren't used properly (e.g. too far apart). Collapses are now also going to take the ore with them, and destroy it. Gone are the days of caving in all of the stone around a vein to better expose it.

 

I disagree entirely. Not once have I been forced to use a support beam when caving, they serve as decoration blocks to me.

 

Whenever I'm digging in a risky situation I throw a ladder down on an ore block (or place an anti-gravity block if needed) then walk so my head is in the ladder. It's saved my life countless times and it's faster, easier and less resource intensive than using beams. Sometimes I'll throw beams in a mine just to make it look nice but a requirement? I think not.

 

In regards to OP, yes please. This is absolutely something I would love to see fleshed out... perhaps not quite so many explosives as you described (don't wanna become another TNT mod) but a mining charge and having explosion strength being based off of how much gunpowder is in it are both fantastic ideas. 

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Whenever I'm digging in a risky situation I throw a ladder down on an ore block (or place an anti-gravity block if needed) then walk so my head is in the ladder. It's saved my life countless times and it's faster, easier and less resource intensive than using beams.

 

Good to know, I'll let Bioxx know that ladders need to be added to the list of blocks that are destroyed by falling cobble. :)

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I'll miss them, but bugs are bugs and need to be squished.

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Good to know, I'll let Bioxx know that ladders need to be added to the list of blocks that are destroyed by falling cobble. :)

 

 

Can we at least have them drop to the ground instead of just being deleted?

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The proper use of support beams has become almost a requirement in B78. Cobble will fall sideways as well as down (like dirt) for better cave-ins, and if you happen to get caught in a collapse, there is a very high probability that it will be instant death. A collapse can also break support beams now if they aren't used properly (e.g. too far apart). Collapses are now also going to take the ore with them, and destroy it. Gone are the days of caving in all of the stone around a vein to better expose it.

Does this mean that mining the ore block itself could cause cave ins too? Because as far as I know cave ins never happened to me while mining ore blocks in the ceiling.

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 perhaps not quite so many explosives as you described (don't wanna become another TNT mod) 

Seeing that while TFC has a good 20-ish fruits and vegetables but has not yet been called a farming/crop mod.... I think 7 explosives is ok(3 hand-helds, 3 blocks, and the powder keg) But I suppose we can get rid of a couple. But really, I don't think it's too much, personally.(wait, actually... if the metal hand-held can be made of any metal sheet, that makes 9 different verities of metal hand-helds[9 metal sheets] hmm that could be a but too much)

 

But if you think there are too much, I suppose the hand-held paper explosive and the dynamite can go, and make the metal hand-held only craftable with iron or something

 

 

Well, actually that's a great idea, I didn't think about this at first, but we still need a fuse able to work with levers, that's true. 

I personally think that all fuses should work with redstone pulses, and ignite when powered.

I like to think if redstone as a spark or something like raw energy.

It won't do much on its own, but it can be used to give something else a little 'kick' to activate something or to shut it down

 

I mean, if we get to control explosives more, I'm sure making a pressureplate triggered powder keg landmine will be much more fun and easy, so why make redstone not ignite fuses?

 

 

Yep, horizontally placed barrels are a disadvantage when you have a considerable amoutn of resources, but not in the early game. You only have the gunpowder fuse available, and it can only be used on horizontally placed barrels, because it's not really practical, being a fuse made of powder. This would also add a bit of balance in the game, not allowing you to immediately be able to detone completely full kegs, but just partially full kegs that generate a smaller explosion. This way you're not a professional miner at the start of the game. 

But I think that if you managed to collect enough powder for a full powder keg... well, I'd say you earned the right to blow that keg to kingdom come.

And I don't really think there is enough reason to implant a horizontally placed barrel on the account of something like this that won't be used for anything else.

 

I think a better way would be to have this happen.

1. Explosives only ignite if the 'ignition point'(for powder kegs, the top, obviously) is ignited, if it gets caught up in another explosion, or if it gets set on fire

To simply put, if you want to blow up a powder keg, you need a fuse on top of the said keg, have something blow up near it, or light it on fire

2. powders cannot connect to other powders above or below it, nor can it connect with powder diagonal from it. Just with powders next to it.

3.Fuses can connect with other fuses above or below it, and with fuses diagonal from it. It can also connect through corners

 

This way, for powder to light a powder keg, the keg must be one block below the powder trail, and the powder trail cannot move up or down. 

A fuse, being able to move in any direction, would be much more easier to connect or hide or thread through walls than powder.

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I think a better way would be to have this happen.

1. Explosives only ignite if the 'ignition point'(for powder kegs, the top, obviously) is ignited, if it gets caught up in another explosion, or if it gets set on fire

To simply put, if you want to blow up a powder keg, you need a fuse on top of the said keg, have something blow up near it, or light it on fire

2. powders cannot connect to other powders above or below it, nor can it connect with powder diagonal from it. Just with powders next to it.

3.Fuses can connect with other fuses above or below it, and with fuses diagonal from it. It can also connect through corners

Well, yes this time I agree with these 3 changes, you could exclude the horizontal barrel (even though it would look really fancy and it would be cool to place a barrel how you want) and add that ability to climb surfaces to the rope fuse. Also, I was thinking, maybe we could involve the jute fiber too in the fuses, after all it's a fiber. I'd suggest it as a replacement for wool yarn, but it should produce more soaked fuses when sealed inside a barrel, because it grows slower than wool.

 

EDIT: now that I think about it, in salt mines they use explosives a lot, to "loosen" the mineral and make it easily minable. I thought this could be a cool idea to include in TFC. The Minerals inside igneous rocks should take really long to mine, because of the resistance of the rock, unless you detonate an explosive charge near them, to crack the rock a bit and make them easily breakable. Of course you shouldn't use the full explosive keg for this, you should use a keg with just a few powder inside, and you should place it inside a natural crack or a crack that you mined, so that the explosion is absorbed by the surrounding rock. But now that I think about it, different types of gunpowder exist, not only one. The mix is almost the same, but the explosive force, the density and other properties change depending on how you make the gunpowder. So, I was thinking, we could make gunpowder similar to alloys, we could make different combinations of gunpowder for different uses. 

Of course, the basic compounds of gunpowder are 75% saltpeter, 15% charcoal dust and 10% sulfur, but the quantity of water, the times you let it dry and then hydrate again, the type of charcoal you use (aspen and willow should be the best types) and other things change the power, the blast radius, the smoke and fire produced. 

As an example, the gunpowder used to crack the rocks should not produce smoke or fire, but should instead be powerful and have a medium blast radius so that a good portion of the rocks will crack.

 

EDIT 2: Basically gunpowder should have ingame parameters like:

 

Smoke generated

Fire generated

Blast radius

Blast power

Heat generated

Noise generated

 

I think these 6 parameters are enough. If we change the gunpowder instead of the container, we could be able to make any sort of explosive we need. The barrel is a fine container, you're right, no need of having horizontal barrels, just change the content. As you said before, you want to make explosive shells? That's good, what's their purpose? Killing mobs? I'd suggest using a mix that generates a lot of fire. Oh wait, you want to use a metal shell? Then I'd say let's use a mix with great blast power, this way the gunpowder will be able to break the shell, and also a large blast radius, this way the fragments will hit mobs around the explosed shell.

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I agree with Lordofwolves, having a dynamic explosive material would be much better than having preset bombs to place. A system where you can mix your own powder with different properties would be a great implement along with a sort of alchemy style science suite (beakers distillery mortar and pestles ect). this would give players the capacity to create an explosive tailored to their own needs rather than forcing them to use predesigned ones and trying to learn how to use explosives that are relatively pointless.

 

And before this thread continues think about the ICBM mod and what are the things most commonly banned with it? (nukes and other big explosives due to world destruction)

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(beakers distillery mortar and pestles ect)

Now that you make me think about it, actually the mortar and pestle could have a great role in this. We should macerate coal in a mortar instead of using the coal piece to make gunpowder. Yeah there's the quern, but it's not supposed to macerate things in a really fine dust (to make gunpowder you need the dust as fine as possible). About saltpeter, it's already in dust form, but it should require some maceration too, to make the granules smaller. Same goes for the sufur. 

We could make that really fine dusts combined together would increase one of the parameters, instead rough dust could decrease it. Also, the proportions are exactly 75%, 15% and 10%, but this is a game, nobody says you can't experiment with your own proportions, maybe you get that combination that you wanted to get, or maybe an unexpected one. However I think the recipes should work kinda like meals, they change in every new world, so that you don't immediately know the exact recipe you need, but you need to experiment instead.

 

The distillery could be used to dry the gunpowder faster after you hydrated it. But it should be a quite risky process, because the gunpowder is highly reactive to fire, so having a fire below it shouldn't be the safest thing. Also, by succesfully using the distillery you get a different result than leaving the gunpowder on a stone block to get dry. The almost immediate evaporation of the water from the powder should change one of theparameters.

 

As for beakers, I don't have so many uses in mind right now. Maybe they could be used to take a small portion of the produced gunpowder so that you can analyze it and know its parameters. 

 

Also I'd like to add another parameter: 

 

Instability

 

Actually gunpowder can be really unstable if you manage to create a high level mix. Some types of gunpowder can even be set off by vibrations, without even requiring a flame to ignite it. The higher the parameters will be, the higher will be the instability too. So higher instability could lead to unexpected autoexplosions. I wouldn't try to jump 4 blocks down while carrying this type of powder in my inventory. 

 

Another thing I should add is that it's better to produce small amounts of gunpowder, nobody should try to produce like 10kg of it at once. And to make this work, we should be able to divide or merge saltpeter, sulfur and gunpowder with a knife, like we do with food, to have the exact quantity of each that we want. And for no reason you should macerate the ingredients together, you should keep them separated until you won't macerae them anymore, otherwise macerating the mix of powders can create a creeper-like reaction.

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This is slightly derailing to a alchemy thing.......

I think I have a alchemy/brewing post somewhere..... maybe I should take another look at it.

 

 

But having different explosives regents(?) would be nice.

 

We could make that really fine dusts combined together would increase one of the parameters, instead rough dust could decrease it. Also, the proportions are exactly 75%, 15% and 10%, but this is a game, nobody says you can't experiment with your own proportions, maybe you get that combination that you wanted to get, or maybe an unexpected one. 

To add more to this, I think any dust or even the raw chunk should effect the parameters, but the finer the dust, the more it would effect.

The effects would not just increase the parameters, but sometimes also decrease it.

Like, coal can increase the fire and heat generated, but can also decrease instability or something like that

So adding rough dust could actually be preferably if you don't want one parameter to be too high, or too low.

 

Instability should effect if the powder explodes if caught in a explosion(so a unstable powder might make a very nice chain reaction), or when it's dropped, or if it gets bumped around for some reason.(just imagine a clay vessel filled with very unstable powder dropped onto the enemy).

 

Not sure about the random every world thing. I mean, finding something out the first time is fine and all, but having to find something out every time I start a new world can be a bit annoying, especially if it gives nothing new to me.

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Not sure about the random every world thing. I mean, finding something out the first time is fine and all, but having to find something out every time I start a new world can be a bit annoying, especially if it gives nothing new to me.

Hmm, you may be right, it could work more like alloys then, with always the same recipes. Alloys don't seem to be a problem even if they're always the same. They should work kinda like the alloys too about proportions, I mean, you must be in a certain range of proportions to create the right dust, otherwise you end up with the wrong dust.

 

Anyway I meant instability as a negative effect, to prevent the player from creating the most powerful gunpowder everytime. Also, instability really increases with the increase of the other parameters irl. So it would make sense, this way people would think twice before preparing a too powerful explosive.

 

However to make custom gunpowder types we should need more than 3 ingredients. Different proportions are ok, but as with alloys, even gunpowder should need more base components. One component could be the potassium sulfate. In it's mineral form it's called Arcanite, and it's quite rare. It can be used as a flash reducer for gunpowder, so less light when the gunpowder explodes. 

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The idea wasnt to make this extreamely complex, but to create a system where you can add other materials to the mix to add effects to the blasts.

 

No need to make it super realistic

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The idea wasnt to make this extreamely complex, but to create a system where you can add other materials to the mix to add effects to the blasts.

 

No need to make it super realistic

Yeah right I should slow down sometimes. So we stop at the custom gunpowder?

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Gunpowder trails were supposed to be used for powder kegs originally, but redstone just seemed much more useful: an existing feature that people were familiar with and that had pressure plates, switches, buttons etc.

 

If powder trails are implemented (which I'd still like to do) maybe we can add a block which ignites something with a redstone signal? Not too hard to imagine, and might have other uses: you could set one next to a firepit or forge to light them without carrying around a flint and steel.

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Gunpowder trails were supposed to be used for powder kegs originally, but redstone just seemed much more useful: an existing feature that people were familiar with and that had pressure plates, switches, buttons etc.

 

If powder trails are implemented (which I'd still like to do) maybe we can add a block which ignites something with a redstone signal? Not too hard to imagine, and might have other uses: you could set one next to a firepit or forge to light them without carrying around a flint and steel.

Creafting a lever, button or a pressure plate with a flint'n'steell allows them to light a gunpowder fuse, and be generally workable the same way as before.

It doesn't really matter that it's difficult to make such construct working, believable enough, I think.

Also that would move creating of powder keg traps higher up the tech tree, not sure how useful that'd be in the whole progression thing.

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Umm... TNT isn't listed as disabled in the wiki. Maybr you could try making some?

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Umm... TNT isn't listed as disabled in the wiki. Maybr you could try making some?

TNT is made with vanilla sand, which you can't get.

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Creafting a lever, button or a pressure plate with a flint'n'steell allows them to light a gunpowder fuse, and be generally workable the same way as before.

It doesn't really matter that it's difficult to make such construct working, believable enough, I think.

Also that would move creating of powder keg traps higher up the tech tree, not sure how useful that'd be in the whole progression thing.

I'd rather a redstone pulse light gunpowder fuses, to let people have more creativity.

And for that 'ignition block' I guess it could be nice. I'd suggest it being counted as 'stone' so you can place it right next to the forge(like, replace one of the blocks surrounding the forge with a 'ignition block')

 

 

Umm... TNT isn't listed as disabled in the wiki. Maybr you could try making some?

On the same note, enchanting tables, eyes of ender, brewing stands, golden apples, or diamond tools are also not listed as disabled.

*shrugs*

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On the same note, enchanting tables, eyes of ender, brewing stands, golden apples, or diamond tools are also not listed as disabled.

*shrugs*

 

They aren't listed as disabled because the recipe to make them isn't disabled. If you can find a way to get the materials in your game, you can craft the items with no issue. The recipes that are listed in that section are ones where even if you do get all of the ingredients, when you try to craft them together there will be nothing in the output slot of the grid.

 

However, ask Dunk stated, the hard part is actually getting the materials. So yes you can indeed craft TNT in TFC, but you're going to have to find some way to get vanilla sand, which isn't available with standard "vanilla" TFC.

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Uhm.. Isn't the types of sand just differs themselves by metadata? Or is it a different block? Can't touch TFC for awhile, so I can't test. Try using Sand:0 as a substitute... That might work.

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Uhm.. Isn't the types of sand just differs themselves by metadata? Or is it a different block? Can't touch TFC for awhile, so I can't test. Try using Sand:0 as a substitute... That might work.

 

It's a completely different block.

 

Vanilla sand has a block ID of 12, TFC sand by default has a block ID of 2109:# and 2110:#

 

Even after the 1.7 port it will be minecraft:sand and terrafirmacraft:sand, but I can possibly add TFC sand to the ore dictionary.

 

Edit: I already added sand to the ore dictionary for 1.7, but vanilla doesn't have an entry for sand, so the TNT recipe still only works using the vanilla block.

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Why not a clay ball for explosives, plugged with tree resin after being filled with the explosive or flammable liquid of choice (turpentine mabye, its boiled pine resin. Or mabye pitch, possibly even fish oil or animal fats?),mabye even a mix of explosives and liquid in a larger hull.

like the usual vessel recipe with the dead center removed, holds 16 units of gunpowder or flammable liquid, shatters upon impact when filled with the liquid and ignited(heat weakens the shell). Detonates on a timer with a fuse, variable based upon fuse (quickmatch is paper, soaked in gunpowder/resin mix, burns fast... while greenmatch is a wool or cotton string that burns longer when soaked in the same liquid) mabye even a larger clay ball with the center 5 removed, holds 32 for a bigger boom or holds a small shell with gunpowder surrounded with a flammable liquid to make a sort of incindeary explosive device, same fusing methods, but an additional fuse is needed as the fuse needs to go through two shells to get to the explosive inside.

Yay or nay?

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