Integrated Crafting Guides

[lightningtiger88 19]

I just got back into TerraFirmaCraft, after leaving it alone since flint tools were still a thing. And one thing which struck me about figuring things out this time around, especially since I was watching videos, was that, like almost any complicated mod, I had to go look at the wiki. 

 

That's normal. But, especially with TerraFirmaCraft which is all about believability, it ruined the immersion. And I noticed that what some mods do, like Tinker's Construct, is give you a book with pretty much everything in it. Of course, that ruins the game just as much. 

 

I began thinking about it, and I think there is a good way to do this. Why not break up the crafting guide into basic bits, and spread them around the world as loot in generated terrain? I think TFC already has quite a bit of exploring in terms of looking for certain kinds of land and rock, so adding something to take a peek at while exploring doesn't seem to be a bad idea. 

 

How would one format it? A straight up crafting guide with illustrations would be just as bad for breaking the immersion as going to the wiki. So perhaps one could format them as notes, written by survivors who had come before. Then they can be vague while giving a sense of direction and help to the player, especially in the stone-early metal age.

 

The way I envision this is probably something like a skeleton on the ground, which you can loot. It would turn up a book. That book would have the basics of metalworking or of pottery, or things like that. Only mechanics, not recipes, or things like 'raw igneous stone is needed to create an anvil that can withstand heavy blows', without actually telling the player how to get raw igneous stone. Perhaps a crude drawing to aid with things like knapping? If the player knows they can find stuff like this, I think it stops them from going straight to the wiki, and at the same time keeps a reason to have complicated crafting to figure out. 

 

So, here are some examples to start;

 

Pottery;

" I've been experimenting with clay recently. It's hard to cook without some kind of pot; my food always chars without strict attention, and stew is an impossibility. It'll be great to finally have something to put water in. But pottery is harder than I thought it would be, not at all like I expected it. Without a proper pottery wheel I've had to resort to making crude vessels by scraping away at the corners to shape them. My attempts at handles have all failed, but having a jug with a handle would help with transporting things a lot.

 

Firing them is another thing entirely. Baking them on the campfire didn't even harden them much. I need to figure out a way to keep the heat in. I've tried digging a hole to set the fire in, but the logs that i stacked on top to cover it and set fire to were too large, and let the heat out anyway. I need to find something smaller to cover it up."

 

Melting Metal;

" I've done it! The clay pots I made recently really do have a use. They were worth gathering all that straw after all. The ceramic kept the heat in, and the copper ore melted, right in the pot! This opens up so many possibilities. Tools, real ones, or even something to keep away the bears. A sword! But I'll need a mold to pour the metal into, something that won't catch fire or melt, and that I can break off afterwards."

 

Metalworking;

" The sword I tried to make yesterday snapped like a twig. I learned my lesson, i thought. The molded one didn't even set properly, so I hammered it into shape this time, but I must have gone wrong somewhere. I'll need to pay closer attention to what the metal looks like when i'm shaping it. If i don't master this soon cutting that rock will have been a waste. I went three kilometers just to find a stone hard enough to use as an anvil, i won't let this stop me. i had to cut all around that rock to get one large enough. I wasted two weeks! Everything's right here in my hand. I just need to work it out."

 

You can see that each one is pretty vague, but that they give good hints as to the right direction. And even if you find a more advanced one, like the metalworking one, first, they give good hints as to what you need before it. Finding two helps you even more because they interlink. But they never tell you outright, even put together. They make the player think that they came up with the idea themselves. And they're little snippets of story that'll take people's mind of grinding a little bit. TFC's terrain gen's really unique and beautiful, so I think its good to encourage exploring.

 

EDIT: Going back, I see an issue. What if they find the same ones lots of times? Any solution to this issue? They could just not take it, if we make the skeleton guys like a chest which you can look in. Then you also get an epic storage thing. Maybe use skulls instead of full skeletons? It could be used to just hold two or three things, all small, but act as decoration at the same time.

[gill8672 0]

I really like this idea, good read.

[Tsuarok 47]

While I really do love the idea, I feel like most users would still refer to a wiki if the flavor text only added hints.  Writing it out in such a way as to make all steps perfectly clear, while maintaining immersion, would be essential to making this work.

 

Something like, "I've found that a copper can be strengthened by adding 1 part zinc for every 9 parts copper,"  but, you know, with more flavor.  Preferably written by you. 

 

Honestly, I think it's kind of a shame, because I remember the pre-internet days of video gaming where you really had to figure this stuff out on your own.

[AllenWL 186]

Well, I think it could be annoying if you wan't to find that book about smiting but all you can find are other books.

We could make a book/scroll/something and have that automatically fill up as you do stuff, and give hints(like 'you' find stuff out, notice things and write it down)

Like when you have a book and try to make stuff with clay, and you fail. it gives notes like 'maybe I shouldn't have cut so much off the corners' or 'I can't use it like this, I need a handle of some sort' 

[transcengopher 349]

I remember devs toying with this idea way back when. Seems like it's on hold for the moment. That IS a lot of work to add this stuff properly. Wiki's a good example, and it's not even about flavor out there, just dry facts.

 

While I really do love the idea, I feel like most users would still refer to a wiki if the flavor text only added hints.  Writing it out in such a way as to make all steps perfectly clear, while maintaining immersion, would be essential to making this work.

 

Something like, "I've found that a copper can be strengthened by adding 1 part zinc for every 9 parts copper,"  but, you know, with more flavor.  Preferably written by you. 

 

Honestly, I think it's kind of a shame, because I remember the pre-internet days of video gaming where you really had to figure this stuff out on your own.

 

How DO you figure out, say, a bloomery recipe? How would you even figure out there even IS such a thing in the game? Randomly throwing stuff at a workbench and seeing what sticks isn't as fun as someone might think it is. Especially confidering how much stuff there is to throw in TFC, considering there's even an intention to make specific metals/alloys to have a specific purpose and recipes to them (which I disagree with, but I don't exactly have a saying on the matter).

Minor stuff like meals are left to figure out on your own. And you can figure out which of the two types of logs burn longer/hotter without looking it up, that's about sums it.

[Tsuarok 47]

I remember devs toying with this idea way back when. Seems like it's on hold for the moment. That IS a lot of work to add this stuff properly. Wiki's a good example, and it's not even about flavor out there, just dry facts.

 

 

How DO you figure out, say, a bloomery recipe? How would you even figure out there even IS such a thing in the game? Randomly throwing stuff at a workbench and seeing what sticks isn't as fun as someone might think it is. Especially confidering how much stuff there is to throw in TFC, considering there's even an intention to make specific metals/alloys to have a specific purpose and recipes to them (which I disagree with, but I don't exactly have a saying on the matter).

Minor stuff like meals are left to figure out on your own. And you can figure out which of the two types of logs burn longer/hotter without looking it up, that's about sums it.

 

Personally, I look it up on the wiki.  My nostalgia isn't for trying random things to see if they work.  It was for a day when video game makers controlled when and how you got instructions, dropping subtle hints and forcing you to figure it out.  It was really fun when you had to work at it for a while and then figured it out.  It's not really useful to design like that now, because anyone can just look up the answer.

[lightningtiger88 19]

Yes, i know it's pretty much impossible to tell them how to figure out a bloomery. But, there's fixes for that too. It makes sense, I think, that as the previous survivors became more advanced their notes became more detailed and scientific and that the things they were stored in; moved up from their corpses to boxes and safes. That way, you could limit really advanced stuff (recipe for blue steel) by putting it in a chest/box which can only be broken with a tool near that level. I was just laying out a plan for stone age stuff, which is easier to put as notes. But for more detailed things...

 

" Aes:

Adde deunx cupra, inde uncia stanna."

 

There! An actual recipe! But what language is it in... Latin! Of course, most people don't know Latin and going to Google translate is just as bad as a wiki. So let's change it up.

 

" In the making of bronze add the materials in such a manner so that eleven twelfths might be cuprum, with one twelfth as stannum, melted by the application of heat and from thence together mixed. Most care must be taken in this process to ensure the amounts are true, lest a useless product be the result of much effort. "

 

 

Some English for once! But what's cuprum? Adding in some archaic words might help to make it a bit trickier. But they know what bronze is, copper an tin; so they can work it out. I tried to write this with an archaic scientist syntax and vocabulary to give it some flavour and make it less boring.

 

So here are some more examples:

 

"

 

What about knapping and things like that? Well, if one just provided a picture with no name to it, in greyscale or crudely drawn, then one knows the shape... and must figure out the easy bit, what material to use, on their own.

 

 

What the heck is that? Hmmm, looks like an axehead. Obviously i'm not good at drawing, or at making things look crude and caveman, but it's a proof of concept. And once one figures out that smashing two rocks together brings up a blocky interface with bits you can cut out, it's not a hard transition. 

 

So, not all 'guides' have to be notes. Ones that you find in skulls/in skeletons will be either notes or pictures like the one above, while ones that you find later, for things that are both more advanced and more complicated and require exact numbers or diagrams, could be in locked boxes or safes which you would have to have at least a certain level of metal to break. Thus progression is still limited. And if one finds a box they can't break, usually they come back to it once they get a better pick. I know I would. So they go back by themselves.

 

Eventually, for things like a bloomery, you would just find a book with detailed instructions that told you how to build it. I figure at that point it's just a way to keep people in the game and stop them tabbing out. We could just do a Tinker's Construct style book with everything in it, since most people will look up the wiki anyway and just learn everything in about one read.

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Dunk is currently working on an achievement system as well, so that could help guide players in the right direction in a very simple matter of seeing what achievement is next to unlock.

[AllenWL 186]

But that would only give vague instructions and ideas.

 

Say, a achievement for getting copper says 'smelt copper ore in a clay vessel to get copper'

There are 3 copper ores, native copper, tetrahedrite, and malachite.

Anyone can tell native copper is a ore for copper, but what about tetrahderite or malachite? Those aren't so obvious to people who don't know what to do.

And how to smelt ores in a clay vessel? How many players will think of using a pit kiln? I think most will try to put ores in a vessel and put that in a firepit/forge(if they can make it)

How will they know to use a mold to get the ore out?

 

So the only way to make it actually not need any other help would be if the achievement said 'Smelt native copper, terahedrite, or malachite by putting at least 10 nuggets in a clay vessel and firing it in a pit kiln, then pour it out into a mold to get copper'. at that point, it's not much different from checking the wiki, just a lot more handier.

[starXephir 30]

Something like this with the achievement system could work. Texts from past explorers. Perhaps drop off mobs, found in loot-ables. The idea itself seems much more like an add-on. If it was structured to fit into player progress it could be an interesting addition to the mod.Finding etchings and paintings on boulders that show how to knap things. Like Lightning Tiger said, they could be cryptic/semi-cyrptic books or parchments. Which could be looted from corpses. Or hoarded in an animals nest.Leading to players having community Libraries were they store found and player-written knowledge.Kitty has already done most of the work on the wiki. Another side project maybe?

[Kittychanley 1,002]

Kitty has already done most of the work on the wiki. Another side project maybe?

 

I was actually planning on adding a plugin for NEI, so I would probably finish that before doing any sort of in-game guides.

[lightningtiger88 19]

I can tell you guys right now that I firstly have no idea to code and hardly have time away from school to play TFC as it is. If this is happening, only ideas will be coming from me. I think an addon would probably have to focuss more towards flavour and interesting bits of story than actual instruction because people who go find addons have usually experienced all/most of the game already. Unfortunately my grades are not exemplar and it's a critical year for me... 

[Tander 3]

A book with researches (like in Thaumcraft) will be better for usability and lore both.

[transcengopher 349]

TFC doesn't have a research tree like Thaumcraft does, so I don't think research notes will be of any use.

[AllenWL 186]

But just having the book can help. and it can unlock new 'hints' when you gather items, kinda like achievements.

Say, if you get copper, and a vessel, it can unlock a hint to let you advance in metal smithing

[Tander 3]

TFC doesn't have a research tree like Thaumcraft does, so I don't think research notes will be of any use.

Yep, but it can be implemented. Researching via minigame to find a way to use ores, for example, isn't it in TFC style?

Anyway, right now TFC have no in-game help. Thaumcraft and Ars Magica 2 have researches, OpenBlock and Tinkers Construct have encyclopedia-style books, OpenPeripherals has plain-text helping book, Industrial Craft and Twilight Forest have tips via an achievement tree. TFC has nothing. It's okay, mod in development etc., I'm understand. But this feature will be realy useful, in any form.

[lightningtiger88 19]

Definitely, even if the hints or whatever are too much work, SOMETHING needs to be implemented. The Achievements don't really do much more than tell you 'go that way' and completely forget about the fact that you don't even know what a bloomery is.

[Tander 3]

Definitely, even if the hints or whatever are too much work, SOMETHING needs to be implemented. The Achievements don't really do much more than tell you 'go that way' and completely forget about the fact that you don't even know what a bloomery is.

True. You know, in GregTech grinder, blast furnace etc. have picture that show what construct you need to build. Like this (1):

 

 

Is it suitable for TFC, what you think?

 

Or, Forestry and Thermal Expanstion have another type in-machine help via tabs:

 

 

I think it can be implemented in TFC machines too. One of this, i mean, not both =)

[lightningtiger88 19]

But that would require the bloomery block to be craftable and then to build the chimney around it, or something similar with the forge.

[Tander 3]

Yeah... Seems the book will be the best choice. Encyclopedia style, like in Ars Magica 2. Table of contents, each article has left page (or pages) with text, and right page with recipe, scheme or just screenshot.

[lightningtiger88 19]

At this point even though it's just an in-game wiki it seems like the best option. 

 

Maybe "The Complete Guide to Survival in the Wilderness; A Book by Bear Grylls" xD

[lightningtiger88 19]

Bump. I think we could do with some extra ideas on how to implement this in a way that isn't too much of a hassle for the devs and still works.

[lightningtiger88 19]

I thought I'd bump this again, especially after Etho also brought it up in his LP recently. 

 

I was thinking maybe we could just have a book, which looks to be some old and ratty survival guide, or maybe just a bundle of someone's notes, with diagrams and pictures. The diagrams and pictures probably shouldn't be too detailed or even extensively labelled, to give the impression of someone's notes, but they could still represent a way for us to introduce new concepts to the player. I'd even go as far as not telling the player what each diagram is but letting them figure it out from the picture. We might need some volunteers to put some time in designing the book though, to avoid it looking(and functioning) like a straight up hold-your-hand guide like those mods with quests etc.

 

EDIT: To be clear, this isn't restricting a person's ability to unlock technologies, it just acts as an in-game wiki which doesn't break immersion and can teach the player new mechanics in an interesting way without either holding their hand or making them log out/pause.

[dutchraptor 20]

If you are going to include other sources, why not just make the journal belong to steve?

 

Don't tell the story behind steve, all you know is that you are in the middle of nowhere and that you have your journal outlining all the different things you know.

 

You've got a believable survival guide without hinting at how steve got the information, it's up to the player to decide if he's a survivor or an adventure etc.