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Visitor

Differentiate between cave-in cobblestone and the building block

40 posts in this topic

I understand the reason behind changing cobblestone blocks in one of the recent versions. While it improves the gameplay regarding mining, the side-effect led to quite a big disruption in building, arguably even more important aspect of the gameplay, however. It's not a game-stopper, but it's kind of sad we cannot make single-layer cobblestone walls and floors of buildings as we did in the past, especially since in regards to theme and aesthetics, dry stone building method seems one of the most fitting ways of building structures.

As, guessing by the posts in recent times, I am not the only one missing being able to make a dry stone huts, I'd like to suggests alternative 'version' of cobblestone which wouldn't show up in the nature, and be a simple result of combining stones not much unlike how cobblestone blocks are made now, but work the way cobblestone did before the changes.

Such rockwall (simple and fitting name if I may say so myself) would be easy to add, not affect balance or mechanics and it'd bring back earlier availability of stone buildings without messing with cobblestone altered for the sake of cave-ins.

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How about mortared cobblestone? That's basically what my front porch is. Same recipe as brick, just different look and no chisel needed.

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That sounds nice, and the plus side of it will be that it can be unaffected by gravity without having any trouble gameplay-wise

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How about mortared cobblestone? That's basically what my front porch is. Same recipe as brick, just different look and no chisel needed.

To be honest, I simply want to have a block which would take place of the old cobblestone, thus the idea for rockwall blocks of old cobblestone functionality. In addition, dry stone building method fits cobblestone exactly because it was old way of assembling walls without the use of mortar, but through skillful arrangement of rocks of different size which supported each other, allowing the construction to remain relatively sturdy.I don't mind alternative to brickwalls made from rocks and mortar, but I'd rather have that to be yet another, separate block.
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Actually, given th current rules concerning cobblestone you can still build 1 layer walls of cobblstone, you just have to be clever with how you place some of the blocks

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Yes, I am aware that you can do sort of scaffolding with random blocks and then dismantle it making a wall stand. Still, that's rather bad workaround for what should be a regular construction block and a horrible hazard as often even slight manage to such a wall creates chain reaction making the thing crumble. I - and not only I from what I've seen - would rather have a rockwall and use it as one did use cobblestone in the past.

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Yes, I am aware that you can do sort of scaffolding with random blocks and then dismantle it making a wall stand. Still, that's rather bad workaround for what should be a regular construction block and a horrible hazard as often even slight manage to such a wall creates chain reaction making the thing crumble. I - and not only I from what I've seen - would rather have a rockwall and use it as one did use cobblestone in the past.

 

A safer method is to convert each block into a detail block via the chisel. The only thing is you can't place blocks (tool racks, etc) on them, so it's mostly used for walls.

 

You can also use planks to support floors --  you will still lose a block layer due to it, but it'd give the appearance of it being a single layer that's being held up by beams (instead of using huge support beams): http://i.imgur.com/PDk4oZs.png. That was just a quick throw-together so I know it looks meh, but I'm sure it could be made to look better. It can also be used to support walls.

 

I know the point of this thread is to suggest a specific block with this purpose but I figured I'd throw in another couple workarounds for now.

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How about mortared cobblestone? That's basically what my front porch is. Same recipe as brick, just different look and no chisel needed.

Good idea. It should be pretty easy to implement, simply replace the stone bricks with rocks and give it the cobble tile.  This is especially nice because you could keep the old recipe for early/material light buildings while having the option of 2nd floor cobble flooring. 

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Good idea. It should be pretty easy to implement, simply replace the stone bricks with rocks and give it the cobble tile.  This is especially nice because you could keep the old recipe for early/material light buildings while having the option of 2nd floor cobble flooring. 

 

You still need a saw to make the bucket required for mortar. I believe the OP wants more options than thatch, logs, and logpiles for building before he has access to metal and toolbench necessary to make mortar.Dry-stone construction has existed since the neolithic era and being able to replicate it would be very appropriate for a starting shelter or its early successor. I was going to suggest making cobble more stable and allowing two meter towers before it crumbled, but I think the ability to craft a 'dry stone' block instead of player-made cobblestone would be a much better solution. It would be a great way to introduce the advantages of b77-style cobble without making it OP like vanilla cobble and allowing for proper cave-in mechanics. 

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How about mortared cobblestone? That's basically what my front porch is. Same recipe as brick, just different look and no chisel needed.

TomatoThief you post a lot of good interesting modifications to brilliant suggestions.... However I'm siding with Visitor in this discussion. Dry "rock wall" fits the spirit of the suggestion better as you need a saw for mortar. To the OP; excellent suggestion Visitor. Yes yes yes! Simple and awesome.
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I would want non-sliding cobblestone I can build of too.

I feel this is believable for handcrafted cobblestone walls to not topple immediatelyon their side. Especially considering we still have fence-like walls from cobblestone that are even more stable in this particular respect (albeit they require 3x3 grid)

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i suggest making normal copplestone being affected by gravity like gravel is ... as it falls down but not into piles... that way you can make a starting house out of copplestone walls and some thatch as rooftops which would be quite legit as ome old house where made like this and also to add the "mortared cobblestone" as TomatoThief said cause i love the look of the cobblestone and i used in vanilla minecraft to make some sweat castles

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i suggest making normal copplestone being affected by gravity like gravel is ... as it falls down but not into piles... that way you can make a starting house out of copplestone walls and some thatch as rooftops which would be quite legit as ome old house where made like this and also to add the "mortared cobblestone" as TomatoThief said cause i love the look of the cobblestone and i used in vanilla minecraft to make some sweat castles

 

Cobblestone used to only fall directly down like gravel, but this was changed so that they fall to the sides as well to make cave ins a lot better. With the old system, a cave in would just result in random pillars of cobblestone all over the place, with the new gravity a cave in actually results in a nice spread out pile of rubble.

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Cobblestone used to only fall directly down like gravel, but this was changed so that they fall to the sides as well to make cave ins a lot better. With the old system, a cave in would just result in random pillars of cobblestone all over the place, with the new gravity a cave in actually results in a nice spread out pile of rubble.

 

Yes, we do realize this, and it does look better. But this change has also invalidated cobble as a building material (you need a pretty creative exploitation of sliding mechanics for it to work).

We like cobble as a builing material, other types of stone do not cover all the aesthetic uses for it. The two ways left are currently either an exploit or single-layer-thick wall panels, and I guessed as you wouldn't really like us using the first one, and the second one is both performance taking and quite a nuicance for building nice interiors.

Hence this thread asking you to think of something that will bring cobblestones back.

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Throwing in my support; I'd like it if crafting four stones together gave a drystone construction block that behaves like cobble used to.

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I like the idea of drystone construction, but is should drop directly down to a degree, as an extended floor from lots of small pieces is practicaly imposible. That said, some way to make it stable for small arches or such would be cool, though harder to code. If Drystone is implimented, it should be placed individual stone by stone, not crafted in the crafting grid then placed. This would make it a much better way to build the house

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Dry stone construction required a great deal of shaping of the stones for puzzle- like fits. For this to require advanced tools is pretty sensible. The Inca, for example, used bronze tools. But most prehistoric peoples lived in homes made of some combination of sticks, mud, straw, leaves, and leather.

I like an advanced, non-coplapsing cobble, but it shouldn't be stone age tech, imo.

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Actually, not necessarily. I agree that some preprocessing may be necessary to acquire aesthetic, shapely stone blocks and tight fit but dry stone method was also used to create sturdy, even if rather crude walls without any greater technical thought than what knapping would require (and sometimes, not even that much!) even if they had to be patched with things like mud to to not leave any openings.

Keeping that in mind and remembering in additiona that mechanics wise it would not create any issues, I am quite certain than simple new block taking place of the old cobblestone would work fine without disrupting much of suspension fo disbelief and offering viable building material alternative.

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To my opinion, the fact that the cobblestone fall sideways is quite realistic, you can not build a house with cobblestone reality! According to several posts and comments I read, many users like that TFC is so realistic, or that resembles ...

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Posted ImageAre you sure we can't build houses out of cobble?

 

I vote for the mortared cobble due to this

:Cobblestone architecture refers to the use of cobblestones embedded in mortar as method for erecting walls on houses and commercial buildings.

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To my opinion, the fact that the cobblestone fall sideways is quite realistic, you can not build a house with cobblestone reality!

Wrong, simply wrong - and sadly indicates you didn't really pay much attention to the thread. I'd like to ask you to google around and look at structures erected through the use of aforementioned dry stone method of building, without mortar. You'll be surprised.

To add a few images myself.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Yes, that last one supposedly doesn't use any mortar either. Just physics. Which arguably would require 'advanced' knowledge but proves well that technically dry stone building is a viable method of making houses, at least by standards of the ages past. I will stop linking images here, those should suffice.

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Yes, that last one supposedly doesn't use any mortar either. Just physics

 

yep, an arch shape, if done correctly, can be made out of loose objects, like, forexample, unmortared stone, and will be quite sturdy.

just as sturdy as any other wall in fact.

but for gameplay's sake, unmortared cobble that does what it does now, and mortared cobble that will be unaffected by physics would be great

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How about only letting cobblestone that's not placed by the player be affected by gravity? The same way as leaves placed by the player don't decay.Don't know if that's easier to code than adding new recipes and blocks or not, but that way it doesn't affect cave-ins and it's still usable as a building block.

Fit's with the idea of randomly placed rocks causing a cave-in versus being able to carefully place rocks so they support each-other.

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How about only letting cobblestone that's not placed by the player be affected by gravity? The same way as leaves placed by the player don't decay.Don't know if that's easier to code than adding new recipes and blocks or not, but that way it doesn't affect cave-ins and it's still usable as a building block.Fit's with the idea of randomly placed rocks causing a cave-in versus being able to carefully place rocks so they support each-other.

I see one problem with that solution. Making placed cobblestone to not be affected by gravity would allow overtly easy security in the mined tunels, making the whole point for gravity-affected cobblestone and cave-ins void. I'd still rather support simply adding new block taking place of old cobblestone, craftable through some simple recipe (even the standard one of putting a few rocks together). Adding new blocks is actually rather easy - the code's all there for other blocks, you just set new block with new id. The only difficulty would be adding new graphics for said block but I'd be compeltely fine with (possibly slightly changed to differentiate the blocks) regular cobblestone look, reused.Mortared cobblestone could be also another block, not just an alternative - again, it wouldn't mess up anything, shouldn't need much work and would be just another little, nice thing for players to enjoy.
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To my opinion, the fact that the cobblestone fall sideways is quite realistic, you can not build a house with cobblestone reality! According to several posts and comments I read, many users like that TFC is so realistic, or that resembles ...

 

In plenty of places across the world (one of which is in Crimea) there are cobblestone structures built by hand out of finely pieced together rocks that are used to hold massives of dirt in place to stop it sliding from the hill. By hand, out of cobble. More importantly - without any mortar. In Crimea in particular it is by a serpentine road on a mountain side, which was built more than a hundred years ago, and still standing just fine.

 

So, as a matter of fact, you can build a house with cobblestone.

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