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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
MrRoooo

Fighting Skills

19 posts in this topic

I saw a Strength Skill post, but nothing about fighting skills.  If a person using and Axe to kill Zombies, I should learn to be more proficient with the Axe.  Same goes for Hammer, Knife, ect. 

 

With each rank of you skill you can a) do more dmg or B) take less dmg.

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Where theoretically there is a point, I am not sure I feel too well about weapon proficiency skills, if only because I'd rather have the damage dealt depend mostly on the weapon itself and general 'power' of the player. Though if the idea garners enough approval to be implemented I cannot say I'd feel strongly enough against it to be bothered.

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What about a mining or digging skill.  Higher the skill faster speed & some special drops. 

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How much skill do you think it takes to chop a zombie with an axe?

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With the Axe skill you should get some abilities with the chance to:  @50 double hit, @100 kill with one hit. @150 block arrows. @200 triple hit.

 

It keeps all the damage based on the weapon, but gives you something extra.

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Hmm, I'm not really a fan of the higher damage idea. I think if there would be a Weapons skill the only thing it should unlock is maybe something like being able to block or wearing down the weapon less as you use it more skillfully. That way it's still based around player experience and having the Weapons skill would just open up more options.

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I dunno.

Weapons are maces(crushing), swords(slashing), javelins(piercing[& range]), and bows(ranged),

hammer(crushing), knives(peircing), axes(slashing) and stone javelins(ranged[and peircing]) are more of a placeholder things until you get metal.

 

Anyways, if you make a strength skill, it shoudn't be axe, hammer, sword, etc, etc, but slashing, piercing, crushing, and ranged.

That's what I think

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I dunno.

Weapons are maces(crushing), swords(slashing), javelins(piercing[& range]), and bows(ranged),

hammer(crushing), knives(peircing), axes(slashing) and stone javelins(ranged[and peircing]) are more of a placeholder things until you get metal.

 

Anyways, if you make a strength skill, it shoudn't be axe, hammer, sword, etc, etc, but slashing, piercing, crushing, and ranged.

That's what I think

 

That was Bethesda's logic in Oblivion, where Axes and Hammers were governed by the same skill set, since you would fight with them in a similar way. 

 

I just don't think it's necessary in TFC. Not that it's a bad idea all around, just that it doesn't work with the TFC "theme". In a mod about survival, fighting is just a tool toward that end, on par with farming, building shelter, and mining. Getting too deep into fighting will make it feel like a game about fighting. My main issue is that fighting skills tend to be based around countering the skills of another skilled humanoid. I would stand precisely zero chance at defeating Bruce Lee (when alive) in any kind of martial combat. However, give us both an axe and we will be almost identically effective at hacking zombies, because zombies have no defensive skills to be overcome. The only factor here is strength, and a very small amount of accuracy. Yeah, Bruce is going to be a bit more accurate that I am, but we're not splitting hairs - we're splitting zombies. And lumber.

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Anyways, if you make a strength skill, it shoudn't be axe, hammer, sword, etc, etc, but slashing, piercing, crushing, and ranged.

That's what I think

 

I do like a skill for slashing, piercing, crushing, and ranged.  That does make more sence.  Maybe a better Post title could be "Skill, just more"

 

We have food and metal working skills, just a few more skills would be nice to work on and level.  The Mod is about survival and should be about learning as well.  You get more heath with exp.  Why not add some more skills. 

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In a mod about survival, fighting is just a tool toward that end, 

Actually, TF is not about surviving if you get what I mean. You achieve survivability the moment you get your farm and you thatch house, at that point you are alive and, if you just play in a safe way (sleeping at night in you thatch home) you can survive as long as you wish before even finding a single metal ore. After you have survived you go to ease your life (since you are "safe" now), you want better tools, better home, something different that just hiding behind a wall of thatch. So, after you find your nice home and you have nice tools and armours what are you going to do with all that? In a game with zombies,,, killing them seems to be the best option. And the most fun you get with that the better. Just saying...

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if you just play in a safe way (sleeping at night in you thatch home) you can survive as long as you wish before even finding a single metal ore.

 

Not quite, since you need a metal saw in order to make a bed. So yes you can "play it safe" as soon as you have a thatch hut.. but it can get pretty boring pretty quickly since there isn't much you can do to pass the night, especially now that if you aren't careful, firing pottery will burn down your safe little hut.

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I'm with you Kittychanley, it would become quite boring playing like that. But my point was toward that TFC isn't a survival game per-se, I mean aside for hunger, thirst and avoiding dangerous mobs (especially at night) there is no mechanic that force you to keep doing stuffs in order to survive (for example, that you have to move from your spot every three or four nights or become the prey of zombies that can burn your house or that to ensure enough amount of food you have to fight through a horde of hungry beasts or be left with the leftovers that can make your day if you are lucky). Once you have a farm, some clay vessels and a hut that you call home, you are settle and that is achieved the first few nights. So, the question is, after settling what is the next step? Metal working. And after metal working is just going to an adventure because there is nothing more to do (not that that is achieved easily, though), I think that fighting and combat have a really important place in TFC that should be explored (and I read that it'll be if I'm not mistaken) especially after you are able to craft your first set of armor and weapons.

 

Skills and abilities are a really nice addition for any game that have some "fighting" side (it is sad that minecraft vanilla doesn't foresee something like this). And I'm not saying something overly complicate like an RPG as D&D or Diablo. Something a little more simple like Zelda (a bunch of weird tools/weapons, some spells like in Ocarine of Time) that are simple in context but are nice. A spin attack would be fun I guess, but I think that the best action would to focus on the "tools abilities" rather in character ability. Just for the sake of an example that could or could not have its place in TFC: combat knife (fast hits that deals low damage and has so little knockback that make it easy to combo an opponent), a Fransica axe that you can throw (not far) to deal slash damage at distance and, if attached with a chain/rope, you can return to your hand in the same fashion of a fishing road. We have metals and a way of making metal powder so it would be "easy" to create "metal poison" that would affect an spider and strong enough to kill it if weaken enough... Well, just saying. 

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Not quite, since you need a metal saw in order to make a bed. So yes you can "play it safe" as soon as you have a thatch hut.. but it can get pretty boring pretty quickly since there isn't much you can do to pass the night, especially now that if you aren't careful, firing pottery will burn down your safe little hut.

True, true.

Panning for ores and throwing javelins at walls gets old really, really fast, then I'm tempted to go running around stabbing zombies until I die.

 

But fighting skill won't help you much with stone tools, I think.

Kinda hard to get skilled at something when you die almost every time you try to fight

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I kinda wanna throw my two cents into here on why I feel a more fleshed out combat system would be a great change of pace.

 

Terrafirmacraft is a mod aimed to make the world a minecraft a more realistic place. As far as the world goes at the time of terrafirmacraft, people farmed, mined, traded, and fought. Since there is not a HUGE player base for this mod given its slow pace and difficulty, it seems most people (me personally) are forced to play with a small group of friends (2-4) or solo. This eliminates the need for a currency to be added to the game since even if you happen to find a decently large server there are other mods (custom NPCs) that adds in its own currency. From what I do know of the TFC community is that PVP is big. Why not get a more fleshed out combat system? I am not sure that I am a fan of "leveling" up since it pushes away new players when there is no moderation of level difference nor am I a fan of just giving everyone every skill. I have no good answer to solve this issue. The easiest methods would be making someone with a much higher level unable to attack lower level people (unrealistic and bad imo) or making the skills learned not directly given but easily learned. Things like scrolls with the techniques written and taught on them would suffice. Making them a random chance to be learned on attack would work to a decent degree as well.

 

I feel like I was all over the place with this, but I think I got most of what I was trying to convey into this post.

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I'd agree with the sentiment of fighting being more of a tool than intended gameplay style. As mentioned above, such skills could technically work but I am rather worried it would create more issues - even if some subtle - than how much fun they'd be.

 

I simply don't like encouraging people to kill stuff. And that'd be what skills would lead to, with people wiping stuff out and seeking targets to increase their skills. It'd also would decrease worth of tactics and player's own skill, as combatants in addition to better equipment would rather depend on thousands of farmed and killed zombies to give them a boost in combat.

 

In addition, by creating certain balance issues (either starting player would be too weak, the skill wouldn't matter and would be just a waste of development time or experienced player would be a killing machine - none of those options good) it would bring certain disturbance to otherwise well-working element of the game and didn't enrich the world much.

 

Thus, I'd think twice before even considering addition of fighting-affecting skills and if someone would decide to do them, do it very carefully.

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True, true.

Panning for ores and throwing javelins at walls gets old really, really fast, then I'm tempted to go running around stabbing zombies until I die.

 

But fighting skill won't help you much with stone tools, I think.

Kinda hard to get skilled at something when you die almost every time you try to fight

practice on innocent livestock?

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As stories in books, games always have the feeling of being in a Déjà vu; "I've seen/read this, bla bla bla". Instead of inventing for something original just look around, there are sagas that have been successful without having a complex combat system even if combat is their main role. I already suggested this, hence I should be quiet and keep reading the post but, well, I'm kind of stubborn. One of those games that have been very successful (even if you may think that the game is not good) is Zelda. The concept it is quite simple a guy with a bunch of weird and not-so-weird tools that save a princes (a classic one). The thing is that those tools are simple in a sense, they only do one thing, from a wooden stick to light up as a torch to a amulet that allow you to become a moving paint. Link is not different from Steve, the both have limited life, and inventory and a sword (shield is optional for Steve). Both of them don't have more fighting skills that just swing that blade in the same way over, and over, and over (aside for the spin attack and some other in some incarnations). The difference is in the fact that Link use his tools as weapons and/or shields.

 

What about Steve? Does Steve in the TFC incarnation need to have skills? No, not really, but he has a skill that Link doesn't, the ability to make tools, and it is in those tools that TFC has all what it needs to fight. Small explosives, shurikens, hammers, swords, fishing roads (yes, those roads are killers, and very good at it with the right conditions), axes, etc. Just thing about it, a big sword (Buster Blade if you wish) with a charging option similar to a bow, ideal to kill slow moving targets (or with the proper timing, your skill, fast moving targets) and a second ability as its smaller brother, a shield. It can be adjusted to make you slow while wielding it as a form of balance. You can make moving floor spikes (blocks) that you can activate it with a lever (dig a hole, lure a mob of mobs and use that fishing road to "fish them into the hole" and enjoy the butchery). The tool possibilities that are believable in the TFC universe are great, and I bet you that you won't need skills to have fun with your creativity and see how can I use this tool to kill a target. The thing is that we need those tools. We have the means to make them, and a fun (and some times frustrating) way of doing them (metal working, leather working) and the materials to do them, even poisons. 

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I'd like throwing explosives, I have a suggestion for explosives in fact. but it's been said that it would need lots of nerfs to balance it out as it's a bit too far for TFC's time period.

But yea, a ranged weapon that deals a non-piercing damage, weapons with aoe damage, long-reach weapons, short-reach weapons, etc would be good

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If you're lost in the woods and are cornered by an aggressive bear, how good you are with a spear is far outweighed by whether or not you have a spear. That's more what TFC is about (in my observation; I'm not the developer); having the right tools for the right situation at the right time. In this universe, skeletons are virtually immune to swords. The solution to this problem not to make your avatar more proficient at unhinging bones with a sword - it's to have a mace.

 

Further, and I have to repeat myself, weapons skills are primarily about overcoming a skilled human opponent. When fighting animals and limited-intelligence fantasy monsters, there is very little more to combat than strength and accuracy of the swing. Should those be skill driven? Maybe. Strength and accuracy could drive a great deal of TFC activities, namely smithing. But I think we should avoid triple-hits, AoE sweeps, and proc'ed status effects.

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