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Dark_Demon

TFC is missing a goal

121 posts in this topic

I was just considering this earlier today when I was considering jumping back into the mod. I don't think it needs a goal so much as a few more bonuses for the extra work. The only major ones I've encountered are the chisel which makes a fun system for microblocks, and the extra animals (because I like animals). I think other fitting touches that make the work worth it would be nice. If all I get in the end for my work is "red steel" I'm let down. At least in Minecraft the "endgame" allows access to more blocks which is the point of minecraft in the end. more building materials.

 

I think other touches like the chisel are the closest thing to a goal we need.

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Wouldn't surviving the disaster be the end game goal?

I believe the whole point was to create goals for the player to choose, when - especially mid to late-game, where survival is not an issue and player has access to basic iron equipment - there's nothing beside grinding left to do. While we agreed that some random events may be enriching the game as well, forcing major calamities that can result in destruction of player's work is quite a different thing.I'd rather have random things happening in the world that player can, rather than has to participate in which bear their own rewards and risks, with global events more of a passing challenge encouraging certain decisions and change of player's behavior rather than enforcing certain actions at the penalty of death or worse. After all, there are all kinds of players and some will want to and be perfectly happy with building some small homestead, not needing nor appreciating great random disasters they didn't sign up for.
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TL;DR - Can we implement Quests that a player can either spawn the world with or without? Quests will grant rewards that enhance their experience but doesn't alter the base mod mechanics.

 

I'm apologizing now if this is a dead thread and nobody wants to revive it, but I really enjoyed a lot of the points made here and would love to see a resolution.

 

Firstly, everyone who has participated in this thread has made very valid points. Yes, even the bad spellers. (Disclaimer: I didn't read every single word, skimmed through it mostly, but I absorbed as much as I could.) Now, I've only recently started playing this mod today and I cannot believe I went this long playing Vanilla. The more challenging survival aspect is exactly what makes TFC so enjoyable for me. The concept of harvesting crop and different seasons appeals to the Harvest Moon fangirl in me and the complex crafting/forging/skills etc. appeals to the strategic gaming crack addict (must... always... be... efficient!). I've noticed it also has a community that tends to skew a bit older in the demographic, which is reassuring for me that there is a MC Mod that has matured in the way that I did. Growing for the need to challenge myself further than the 9x9 crafting while still keeping it ligh-thaerted with those pesky skeletons throwing javelins. 

 

My Stance: Honestly, I would love to see accomplishments to mark my successes in the game. So, you can chalk me up to the 'goals' side of this discussion. The concept of continually building up my little home will suffice for, let's say, a week? When I've finally built that home and farm, the question of "what's next" is scaring me. Even at my newbie stage! I would hate for TFC to only have a few week's worth of play for me, before I decide to start over (boring) or more devastatingly... find a new mod (gasp)?

 

With everyone's suggestions of disasters being the last idea mentioned, wouldn't that be similar to starting over? I mean, what's to stop me from just starting over now, and also, what is going to keep my interest after I survive this apocalypse? 

 

My Suggestion: What do you guys think of "Quest" lines that appear randomly throughout the map that can only be activated by investigating an oddity in the world? It can reward you in ways that enhance your play experience, but doesn't alter it? This can be a feature toggled before the world spawns for those that don't want an end game. Examples (sorry if they're incredibly lame):

 

"Pet"

Quest: Rare bird is looking for it's nest. 

Solution: Examine several trees in the area to discover rare egg nest.

Reward: Rare bird gives you an egg to keep as your "pet" which helps you hunt for wild fruits/veggies

(Extension to this... said pet could be trained and it has skills to be able to do things like forage for you, etc. This type of quest can advance to wolf pets or horses or whatever, just throwing it out there.)

 

"Agriculture" 

Quest: You stumble upon a clearing of foreign plants only to find that it's poison and you're dying.

Solution: Find an antidote by combining wild flowers that spawn near that area to cure you.

Reward: Discovered new herbs that can help with your food's stats or longevity or whatever.

 

"Mining"

Quest: A cave you discover has a very dangerous steep walls but a rare metal to be obtained

Solution: In a puzzle-like way you figure out the safest way to navigate through the walls and mine the metal

Reward: Metal can be used to create an item which helps find other precious metals within the game, similar to a compass

 

Again, apologies for the shit quest examples. I just wanted to make sure I got the idea across. Also, a reminder, I haven't played through most of the mod yet so if there's already solutions for my rewards please disregard that small portion and let's focus on the concept. Lol.

 

There's my 2 cents. This was a great thread to read anyway and I'm super stoked on playing this mod even further.

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TL;DR - Can we implement Quests that a player can either spawn the world with or without? Quests will grant rewards that enhance their experience but doesn't alter the base mod mechanics.

 

I'm apologizing now if this is a dead thread and nobody wants to revive it, but I really enjoyed a lot of the points made here and would love to see a resolution.

 

Firstly, everyone who has participated in this thread has made very valid points. Yes, even the bad spellers. (Disclaimer: I didn't read every single word, skimmed through it mostly, but I absorbed as much as I could.) Now, I've only recently started playing this mod today and I cannot believe I went this long playing Vanilla. The more challenging survival aspect is exactly what makes TFC so enjoyable for me. The concept of harvesting crop and different seasons appeals to the Harvest Moon fangirl in me and the complex crafting/forging/skills etc. appeals to the strategic gaming crack addict (must... always... be... efficient!). I've noticed it also has a community that tends to skew a bit older in the demographic, which is reassuring for me that there is a MC Mod that has matured in the way that I did. Growing for the need to challenge myself further than the 9x9 crafting while still keeping it ligh-thaerted with those pesky skeletons throwing javelins. 

 

My Stance: Honestly, I would love to see accomplishments to mark my successes in the game. So, you can chalk me up to the 'goals' side of this discussion. The concept of continually building up my little home will suffice for, let's say, a week? When I've finally built that home and farm, the question of "what's next" is scaring me. Even at my newbie stage! I would hate for TFC to only have a few week's worth of play for me, before I decide to start over (boring) or more devastatingly... find a new mod (gasp)?

 

With everyone's suggestions of disasters being the last idea mentioned, wouldn't that be similar to starting over? I mean, what's to stop me from just starting over now, and also, what is going to keep my interest after I survive this apocalypse? 

 

My Suggestion: What do you guys think of "Quest" lines that appear randomly throughout the map that can only be activated by investigating an oddity in the world? It can reward you in ways that enhance your play experience, but doesn't alter it? This can be a feature toggled before the world spawns for those that don't want an end game. Examples (sorry if they're incredibly lame):

 

"Pet"

Quest: Rare bird is looking for it's nest. 

Solution: Examine several trees in the area to discover rare egg nest.

Reward: Rare bird gives you an egg to keep as your "pet" which helps you hunt for wild fruits/veggies

(Extension to this... said pet could be trained and it has skills to be able to do things like forage for you, etc. This type of quest can advance to wolf pets or horses or whatever, just throwing it out there.)

 

"Agriculture" 

Quest: You stumble upon a clearing of foreign plants only to find that it's poison and you're dying.

Solution: Find an antidote by combining wild flowers that spawn near that area to cure you.

Reward: Discovered new herbs that can help with your food's stats or longevity or whatever.

 

"Mining"

Quest: A cave you discover has a very dangerous steep walls but a rare metal to be obtained

Solution: In a puzzle-like way you figure out the safest way to navigate through the walls and mine the metal

Reward: Metal can be used to create an item which helps find other precious metals within the game, similar to a compass

 

Again, apologies for the shit quest examples. I just wanted to make sure I got the idea across. Also, a reminder, I haven't played through most of the mod yet so if there's already solutions for my rewards please disregard that small portion and let's focus on the concept. Lol.

 

There's my 2 cents. This was a great thread to read anyway and I'm super stoked on playing this mod even further.

As a player I could see the fun in this. As someone who would have to try to code this... x_x

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I think the main reason for people to complain about the lack of a end, is actually because they can get to red and blue steel too fast.

Once they get there they feel lost.

There is a ton of research  in what kind of drugs get released into our brain when we die in a game.

Have you noticed how rapidly your hart bits when you just escape a  near death situation in the game?

Is very hard to make a game that is not impossible to survive but at the same time is hard enough.

Too easy and there is no motivation, Too hard and you just rage quit.

Some games fallow a linear progression where every time you level up you get stronger and better weapons but the monsters also get more dangerous.

The problem with minecraft is that there is no way to load harder monsters.

So once you have all the technology and red steel armor you are pretty much safe.

The same of course applies to vanilla minecraft.

For what I have seen from the Devs they work hard to balance the game and prevent the player to get to the status of all powerfull god.

Have to remember that TFC is stiil a mod for minecraft. Minecraft works in a way that every time you get a reward it makes easy and easier to survive. 

Some of the most popular games like Half Life 2 and Diablo 2 have a progression on the monsters so they are harder to kill. The same can not be easily done on minecraft.

The solution as I see is to add content to the mod ( something that the devs have been doing and in a excellent way).

But no matter how much content is added you will get to the point wher you just got everything that you can get. And then what?

If you like building go build a castle or a town or a road. If you are on multiplayer go trade or make gigantic projects.

Or just do as I do and consider the game beaten and start another world.

This is just my 2 cents. Please dont take it as offensive in any way. Peace and Love.

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I would really love to see some entity based progression. Dungeons and areas with higher tier'd mobs that require higher tiered armor/weapons to progress. Perhaps new mobs that spawn at lower layers that do not spawn at higher layers/the surface. Find some way of making this a reality. An actual means of testing out that armor we worked so hard to acquire, but at the same time another way of progression other than getting the next metal and making the next anvil. Every good game has entity progression in my opinion. This is no exception. We should all have a way to test out our new toys, and harder monsters that cannot be killed with earlier tier equipment is definitely a needed feature of any truly enjoyable survival based experience.

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Every good game has entity progression in my opinion. This is no exception.

Actually, this game doesn't really have entity progression - you can get very far and with enough skill and luck achieve most of what is to achieve in TFC fighting with just basic equipment or even without fighting at all. While I don't mind some sort of progression like this, I don't think it's the Only True Way and I do recall playing really nice games where it wasn't a thing.
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It really depends on whether or not TFC is designed to be played in PVP, PVE, or both

 

Currently the game lacks any sort of PVE progression, which is fine if the game is designed to be PVP based. The mob enemies would be minor obstacles with the focus on competing with other players. If this is how the game is supposed to be, its working properly

 

Of course it may also be planned to also have a focus on PVE, in which case PVE might be overhauled at some unknown time in the future.

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Its sandbox dammit

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Its sandbox dammit

There's no reason to close of ideas and expand on something though. We wouldn't have action RPGs if no one ever built upon RPG in the first place.

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First and foremost i'd like to say I love this mod in it's starting ages but something seems wrong to me. Have you guys ever thought about how this mob reach a stalwart once you are a t the steel age which is a shame since it did such a great job at making the firs few hours very complete and interesting but at some point I just feel like quitting and starting over (once I reach Steel Age). So my point here is that it need some kind of automation at a basic level of course many ideas came to mind on how this would be done some of which seems to fit well with the lore, for example how about setting your mule to do the grain grinding for you it would get tired over time and would need to be fed, also you could use the same method to stoke the bellow for the blast furnace.Later you could start building water boiler and create some sort of steam power which in turn could be used to process more effectively your ores. I don't know how you guys feel about it but somehow I think it would be less of a time consuming mechanic, because it seems to me like it's taking forever to finally reach black steel then blue/red steel and all that work for what? A water source bucket.... Well I feel that if those metals unlocked some new potential in automating some grindy process such as those it would make the game a lot more enjoyable. Also I would add that although it's been talked intensively wind power and water power should be introduced at some point as it would fit nicely with the era of TFC.

Edited by Kittychanley
Duplicate Suggestion. Merged into older, existing one.
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Well i though it was worth mentionning as this post was not meant to be precise but to give a lead as to what I feel would add to the game

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The idea that has previously been mentioned is for TFC to be compatible with tech mods, so once you reach steel you can continue in the tech mods of your choice

 

dunkleosteus mentioned adding mechanical and steam power sources, but that would probably be years away IF it is ever implemented at all

 

So don't hold tour breath for those

 

Most tech mods mostly work with minetweaker. You will have to cheat in anything from the Nether/End or make up nonsensical recipes.

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The game does need some final goal, besides top-tier metals. It's great for the roleplay aspect, but there isn't any difficulty in completing anything, except for finding more ore, which is basicly useless at that point.I think what you're thinking of is something that Minecraft has been lacking until recently, and that's bosses. The End dragon is a good end-game goal for minecraft, but alas, the End is disabled....The Wither is a Fantastic boss to test your skills, and take a big risk for an item that requires much more resources to utilize. But guess what? nether doesn't exist either....There needs to be some sort of combat goal for some people to accomplish, or else half the game is rather tame and boring. Even the overworld mobs are nothing when you have high enough tiered armor + weapons.But, that's up to the Developers to decide

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I agree bosses would be nice also I recently discovered a modpack involving a quest if somehow they could imprement it in the progression it would be fantastic.

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Minecraft:

~Artificial Goal- Suit of Full DIamond

~Objective Goal- Defeat the Enderdragon and Wither

 

TFCraft:

~Articial Goal- Get a Suit of Full Red/Blue Steel (Or a stack of each metal)

~Objective Goal- ...?

 

Which gives the game a lack of closure. It's good as it is, but once you've got the steel you need, most of what you can do involves planting crops and exploring. Not everyone is creative enough to be able to think of things to build as the game progresses (I built my actual house after the steel age, for lack of creative push to do so). In the end, there are two types of players :adventurers and builders. It's very hard to find balance for both.

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TFC is a mod balanced for SMP. If you are wanting to test your mettle then an actual player can provide more of a challenge than any coded enemy. If you'd like more in an SSP format then I'd look at other mods you could get to work with TFC. A Boss doesn't fit with believability they are striving for in mod.

Personally I never understood the need people feel for closure in a sandbox game.

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It's not closure, it's a goal for people to shoot for once they have done everything else in preparation (finding all the ores, making the structures to process them etc).

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That is the beauty and the reason why minecraf is so popular. Every person can create it's own goal. For me once I have the perfect base with everything working to my satisfaction is time to create another world.

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Are you saying minecraft is popular because there are nothing built in to work towards? Because the only motivation people have to play minecraft is goals that they have set themselves? No, minecraft is popular (among other reasons) because people can set goals for themselves, because they have the freedom to do what they want, as well as having progression and in game goals to work towards.

 

There are lots of in game goals in minecraft, such as getting to the nether, finding brewing materials, the wither, and the enderdragon, as well as the tool/armor/resource progression to conquer the aforementioned built in goals, such getting diamond tools, being strong enough to conquer fortresses, killing many wither skeletons/ having potions/enchantments, and killing many endermen/blazes + exploration. I think it is important to have objectives matched with the tools or resources to conquer them throughout the game, but terrafirmacraft has endgame tools/resources (red/blue steel), but no endgame goal. 

 

You do not have to kill the enderdragon, or defeat the wither, nor build a beacon, but they offer more objectives to work towards. What's more, they do not stop you from creating your own goals at all. 

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First metal tools, forge, each level of anvil, bloomery, blast furnace, full height blast furnace, each level of metal, each tool, every piece of armour, animal husbandry, farm with all crops, every fruit tree, every berry, master level for each skill etc. These are all achievements in TFC.

I've found each of them more fulfilling than any vanilla achievement with exception to killing my first wither solo. Dragon is a joke, I've killed it with nothing but a bow, no armour, no potions and no pumpkin.

Goals are player made and just mean you feel a sense of accomplishment doing them.

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Once you get pass the stage of "firsts", TFC is all grinding for the next progression. Once that happens, you have the tools to do as you please, yet nothing to build or accomplish

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yet nothing to build or accomplish

 

So a massive house, a pretty smithing area for all your forging tools, a castle, a town, a road system are all nothing to build? And collecting all of the items in TFC isn't something to accomplish?

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Maybe more achievements give the feeling there is more to TFC? Other than that, i see little difference in end-game compared to vanilla MC.

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I don't know I have a feeling like people are asking for TFC to have a end game as artificial as as the ender dragon was for Vanilla. In every update the devs add more and more achievements for our enjoyment, and they are doing it fast and faster. the upgrades are coming closer and closer together. To the point that I am about to ask then, please do not upgrade to 1.8 yet, since we do not have Sponge ready for it. When have you heard of a player asking a mod developer to slow down?

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