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TomatoThief

Irrigation / Water Channels

36 posts in this topic

Create channels of water from smooth stone.

 

Flowing water in Vanilla checks adjacent X and Z blocks. If two of them are source water blocks, the flowing block becomes a source block. I suggest adding an additional check. If one X or Z side of the flowing water is source, two other sides are smooth stone, and the block directly underneath is smooth stone, the flowing block becomes source (because it does not dissipate through stone).

 

The primary purpose (for me) would be to connect inland ponds/lakes/rivers to each other or to open sea. Digging a torchlit culvert through a small hill with support beams would be very satisfying and romantic.

 

Followup suggestion: add a new gondola boat that comes equipped with an Enderman poler singing 'O Sole Mio.

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This would be very nice to get water about my town. Moving water is very late game; we do need a way to get water from point A to B.

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I wouldn't want it for water source blocks to be created/moved too easily. Suggested mechanics could be rather easily abused for the sake of having water nearly wherever as soon as one gets access to metal tools, making red steel bucket nearly useless.I like the Enderman gondolier feature though. But I want it only if after finishing singing Enderman makes the whole world is reset and every character on the server permanently deleted. Because if we are to go for wacky, we can go totally wacky.More seriously, I'd like water channels that extend somewhat length of the flowing water stream but that's about it.

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There are some problems in believability. Expanding a single cube of source water to Lake Titicaca is ridiculous. But so is doing the exact same thing with a red steel bucket. Or being able to do so with red steel but not iron, copper, wood, or clay. So we are left with the question of, "Why is this primitive technology an end game mechanic?"

 

I picked smooth stone as a requisite because it is a doable yet still non-trivial method of expansion. It would require a great deal of stone to be smoothed and mined to transport the water any worthwhile distance. You still can't relocate a point source to another point source, and you still can't relocate it up (or even down unless there are source blocks underneath).

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the point of making water transportation with a blue steel bucket is to help encourage people to reach the higher tiers.

 

I think that there should be a method like this though, but as a late game option. Maybe crafting some sort of lead block which can be placed on a chiseled block. the question is, is it worth the trouble?

 

Note that pipes are in creative (ish). maybe they could accomplish this water moving thing somehow, like under/above ground pipes with water flowing to create a pool by you're house with water from a near by higher altitude lake.

 

Edit: maybe the chiseled stone could only carry water if it was chiseled by a blue steel chisel.

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The smooth stone idea is interesting. I've always wanted aquaducts in tfc and with rivers becoming more rare in 79 there would certainly be a place for it. I'll ponder on it for sure.

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maybe an aqueduct block made from stone brick (requiring mortar) shaped in a vanilla cauldron in the crafting grid. So 7 stone brick blocks would make 4 aqueduct block.

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I say add a new water block for this, one that acts like a 'full' flow block, but does not disappear, flows, and you can take water out of.

That would make this doable, give aqueducts/water channels a nice flowing look and still not make red steel buckets redundant.

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First time poster.

 

Historically, irrigation occured at flood times when there was plenty of water to irrigate neighboring fields. Maybe these duplicate water blocks would only form during thunderstorms (as a stand-in for "heavy rains"), and would then disappear after some period of no rain (so, special water blocks whose block ticks check a global "drought time"). This would make crops a distance from fresh water grow faster after rain and slower during droughts.

 

Am I correct that the only water occuring naturally above 144 that could be used for terracing are hot springs?

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However, that would make the point of this idea-moving water without redsteel buckets- rather pointless

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Aqueduct block made would be cool.  You could make an Aqueduct System to bring water to all your homes in your town. This would help the server I host.

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However, that would make the point of this idea-moving water without redsteel buckets- rather pointless

 

Not pointless, simply less effective than red steel buckets (channels only useful for a while after thunderstorms) -- which seems like a good thing. It would be an early/mid-game stop-gap until red steel is achieved.

 

By tweaking the drought time that dries them up you might only get a day or two of use, or you might get months of use, depending on rainfall. And that's any rainfall to reset drought time, not just thunderstorms (or maybe it is just thunderstorms: Bioxx can play around with it).

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But what if I live in a desert?

Having to wait fro thunderstorms to be able to use my aqueduct would be pretty annoying in my opinion, especially since I rarely get any form of rain

 

Moving water and getting temporary water is different, and really, this idea feels more like an aqueduct idea then a irrigation idea to me.

Irrigation for crops and such does work that way usually(sometimes, there are enough water to not need to wait for rains though), but aqueducts are another matter.

They are meant to bring water from a faraway source, like a river or lake for all purposes, not capture rainwater to water crops

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You can build aqueducts... the only problem seems to get the water to sufficent hight so that you can use the hightdifference to "get it flowing"...

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Historically, irrigation occured at flood times when there was plenty of water to irrigate neighboring fields. Maybe these duplicate water blocks would only form during thunderstorms (as a stand-in for "heavy rains"), and would then disappear after some period of no rain

I like this idea, quite much. It'd allow irrigation and other ideas mentioned here to a degree without allowing water source block abuse.Yes, it wouldn't allow abundant and reliable access to water in the desert but let's be honest - I don't think it should. It's desert. One of the defining traits of a desert is the fact that water isn't widely available. If we eliminate such kind of differences the whole aspect of being smart in choosing one's place to live and consequences of such choices go out the window.
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I say add a new water block for this, one that acts like a 'full' flow block, but does not disappear, flows, and you can take water out of.

That would make this doable, give aqueducts/water channels a nice flowing look and still not make red steel buckets redundant.

 

Or just recode flowing water so that it doesn't drop in height when moving into such an aqueduct structure (stone on two sides and bottom). As long as you require two side stone blocks, you can make turns but you can't split the flow without losing some water level (which actually totally makes sense).

 

I think it should be something more than just smooth stone though. I'd probably go with stone bricks since that requires mortar which fits my mental image of Roman aqueducts (not an expert) and water tightness, perhaps even a new "aqueduct" block like Wikiultimate suggested (or not -- I like structures).

 

I was originally thinking that you could hydrate farmland within 4 blocks of the aqueduct stream, but now I'm thinking that doesn't make sense. The whole point of the aqueduct is that it doesn't lose water -- if it was losing water to nearby farmland, realistically its level would drop. In that case a single aqueduct could only irrigate about a 23-block-diameter roughly diamond shaped area (by dropping the flowing water into the middle and letting it go in four directions, with a few smaller side branches). But would require recoding farmland too so that it can't be irrigated by aqueduct water. Hmm.

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For this sugestion to be truly aplicable, we would still need water sources higher up. Rivers should start up in the mountains, and flow downwards over time. I think lakes should also form, not at sea level, but above, with the posiblility of being high in the mountains, so an aqueduct is feasable. I like the idea that on types of stone, water flowing wouldnt decrease as it went, though it should decrease on dirt, grass, sand, clay, gravel, cobble, and other materials that either let water flow through them or absorb it. Chiseled stone, smooth stone, and stone bricks by this standard shouldnt loose water, but also the water shouldnt irrigate arround them.

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Or just recode flowing water so that it doesn't drop in height when moving into such an aqueduct structure (stone on two sides and bottom). As long as you require two side stone blocks, you can make turns but you can't split the flow without losing some water level (which actually totally makes sense).

I was going to say this too, but if that happens, you can't fill jugs or buckets out of, so it'll be like

"I have water right next to me watering my crops, but I have to walk 1000 blocks to get a drink"

 

So I think it should be more than flowing water, so we can fill jugs and buckets from it without having to all the way back to the source

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I guess my response is, why can't you fill wooden buckets and ceramic jugs from flowing water? It probably hasn't come up before since flowing water is always near a source block, but it would make sense to allow it.

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"I have water right next to me watering my crops, but I have to walk 1000 blocks to get a drink"

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't standing in flowing water regains thirst? Technically, you should be able to drink that way, just not fill jugs/bottles.
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yes, it does, but it takes a long time, and I'd rather not go to the water and afk there for half a minuet to fill up my thirst every time, and you won't be able to make limewater, make leather, or brew alcohol that way. Not to mention that you'd have to stop what you're doing and go to the water do drink

 

And "I have water right next to me watering my crops, but I have to walk 1000 blocks to get a drink"

is shorter, and can get the point across point across than "I have water right next to me watering my crops, but I have to walk 1000 blocks to get water to prepare my hides and make mortar and brew alcohol and fill my jugs and bottles"

(the point being that if it's a flow block, there is little you can do other then water crops, drink in a pinch, and sluice[and the sluice is disabled right now, so.... yea, not that useful])

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Aquaducts would be awesome, therefore remove the ability to move water source blocks?

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Add a carving mode to the chisel to make an aqueduct block?

The block would match the water level and flow direction of the highest of the two water levels on the two open ends.  If it is a source, then this block would be source.  Mining the aqueduct results in air, and an aqueduct cannot match the wall of another aqueduct, only the opening.  Using this method one could theoretically still connect two bodies of water (if they were on the same x or z), but barring that, one could not create and infinite water supply, only extend its range.

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Love the aqueduct idea. A chisel mode to create it seems reasonable. My suggestion for aqueducts is as follows:

-The visual level of water in aqueducts is constant when connected to water

-Aqueduct water can fill jugs and bottles but not buckets (jugs and bottles can't be used to fill barrels so no exploit here)

     Players would still need to make trips to water sources to fill their barrels for water-intensive projects

-The first block chiseled will be the unique source block, each network may only have one source block

-When an aqueduct block is created it may only connect to 1 other adjacent aqueduct block

     An existing aqueduct block can connect itself to multiple other aqueduct blocks as the other blocks are being chiseled

     The resulting structure would therefore be unable to have more than one water source and could not connect to separate aqueduct systems 

     These rules to ensure that each aqueduct network is and isolated system are in place so the game can then calculate water output for individual aqueducts

-Aqueducts are made of either smooth stone or natural stone

     Smooth stone will not lose water and will not hydrate nearby soil

     Natural stone is porous and when chiseled into an aqueduct block it will act as a hydration source for blocks in (x) radius

-Each aqueduct network can contain (y) number of porous stone blocks with no negative effects on hydration

     Past this limit the aqueduct is over-worked, this has 2 effects.

          a)Overworked aqueducts can not fill up jugs and bottles (serves as an indicator to the player that the aqueduct is overworked)

          b)For every additional porous stone block past this limit each porous block's hydration radius is reduced by (z)

     Natural stone aqueduct could be smoothed using the chisel's existing smooth feature if the player wishes to remove a hydration block without breaking the aqueduct in order to get more water to the rest of the aqueduct or a new addition on the ends (smooth aqueduct can not be made porous, a natural stone block must be placed adjacent to the smooth aqueduct and turned into a porous aqueduct block if the player wishes to create a hydration point)

-When creating an aqueduct block, the game would know which adjacent block provides the water and would not allow water to flow past gains in elevation

 

This would encourage players to use careful planning when constructing an aqueduct to maximize the efficiency and support larger farms.

 

 

semi-related note: Large farms (and by extension aqueducts) aren't really needed atm, a small family can survive a winter on just no more than a dozen square meters of grain. (this is silly) If aqueducts are added then I think the farming of grains could be changed so that the seeds you plant and the seeds you eat are the same. Each plant would drop many seeds but the weight of the seeds would be diminished. Because aqueducts would greatly expand the amount of usable farmland in the early-mid game (when the first metal pickaxe is acquired) It would allow for grain farming to increase in it's level of believably. This would make the scythe useful for more than hacking at trees (which is not what it is really for anyway) as large areas of grain would be required to sustain the player(s) and would take to long too break by hand. 

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… the seeds you plant and the seeds you eat are the same. …

 

This. Historically you had to save at least 50% of your harvested seeds to re-plant the next year (with modern seeds, for those still re-planting, it's less than 2%). This mechanic would give you a choice -- make more bread to survive the winter, or save the seeds to replant next year.

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