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Tsuarok

pegs, nails, rivets, and mortar

15 posts in this topic

So, I was thinking how materials stick together in minecraft, and, well... it's not all that believable.

 

To remedy this, I suggest the addition of pegs, nails, and rivets, and some modification to mortar.

 

Pegs and nails would be used interchangably, and would be a required ingredient for making plank blocks.  They would also need to be in the inventory to place both planks and plank blocks, and doing so would use them up.

 

Pegs would need to be made one at a time from sticks using a chisel (or a knife or saw, any of these would be fairly appropriate).  Perhaps placed on the ground and right-clicked.

 

Nails would be made from metal wire (a new thing) and would finish in batches of 64 (thus saving time in exchange for using metal).

 

Rivets would be made in a manner similar to nails, and be required to place metal sheets.  They might also find use in the making of armor, though that is beyond the scope of this thread.

 

Mortar would work as it does now, but would also be required to place stone bricks.

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The only problem I have with this is you need 4 plank blocks to make the workbench to get the 3x3 crafting grid. How would pegs work into this?

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I'd say make a type of cobblestone that won't fall down, can be made the same way as bricks, but instead of these; stones. It will look the same as cobble. It's a believable way of using a very pretty (and used) building material. And it's a shame we had it taken away from us.

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The only problem I have with this is you need 4 plank blocks to make the workbench to get the 3x3 crafting grid. How would pegs work into this?

That would be a problem... I guess the only solution I can think of is 3 planks and a peg, though I don't find it ideal.

 

Well, I guess you could make it a multistep item where you take, say, a plank and a peg to make pegged planks and then four pegged planks to make a block.

 

Still a bit inelegant though.

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I'd say make a type of cobblestone that won't fall down, can be made the same way as bricks, but instead of these; stones. It will look the same as cobble. It's a believable way of using a very pretty (and used) building material. And it's a shame we had it taken away from us.

 

Yes, I think there's a thread about that.

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I agree that the way current mechanics works is both testing suspension of disbelief and not overly realistic but in all honesty, I'd rather have it left as it is. It's the kind of simplification that makes the game actually more enjoyable. Suggested content, while it'd make the whole deal more realistic (that's where it's believability would stem from) would be also bothersome - just additional step requiring implementation of new crafting recipe and items, increasing length of time of producing otherwise common - at least post-prehistoric phase - material.

I doubt I'd enjoy much such feature.

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I agree that the way current mechanics works is both testing suspension of disbelief and not overly realistic but in all honesty, I'd rather have it left as it is. It's the kind of simplification that makes the game actually more enjoyable. Suggested content, while it'd make the whole deal more realistic (that's where it's believability would stem from) would be also bothersome - just additional step requiring implementation of new crafting recipe and items, increasing length of time of producing otherwise common - at least post-prehistoric phase - material.I doubt I'd enjoy much such feature.

 

Fair enough.  I just sort of felt like it would add a bit more to the "advanced" construction materials.  But tedium isn't fun, and fun is definitely more important than believably. 

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Yes, I think there's a thread about that.

 

There's a thread about most of this. It was just late when I saw this thread pop up, and I couldn't be arsed to shoot it down properly

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When approaching a solution such as this, which could be interesting, it's important to make sure it doesn't become tedious or feel pointless.

 

The first constraint means it can't be difficult to get a hold of the materials or to produce the items, and that it doesn't greatly affect the way players play.

 

Secondly, there should probably be some sort of progression, with advantages to increasing tiers.

 

 

What I would suggest is adding a tool belt. Various items like pegs or nails could be added to the tool belt in a separate window. Any crafting recipes or construction that required those items would grab them out of the belt automatically, without bothering the player about it. The second part is where I come up a bit short. I'm not sure what the advantages of pegs or nails to begin with might be (or what better versions of them might do), but I feel it's a direction to point the discussion in.

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When approaching a solution such as this, which could be interesting, it's important to make sure it doesn't become tedious or feel pointless.

 

The first constraint means it can't be difficult to get a hold of the materials or to produce the items, and that it doesn't greatly affect the way players play.

 

Secondly, there should probably be some sort of progression, with advantages to increasing tiers.

 

 

What I would suggest is adding a tool belt. Various items like pegs or nails could be added to the tool belt in a separate window. Any crafting recipes or construction that required those items would grab them out of the belt automatically, without bothering the player about it. The second part is where I come up a bit short. I'm not sure what the advantages of pegs or nails to begin with might be (or what better versions of them might do), but I feel it's a direction to point the discussion in.

 

I like that; it would prevent clogging up the inventory too much.

 

hmm... it if weren't for spawn protection, I'd suggest that the tiered nails provide an increased blast resistance.  But I've never had a house blown up in TFC, not by creepers nor by TFC's relatively mature player base, I don't see the benefit as worth much.  But it might be nice on some servers, or with certain config settings.

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One more thought:

 

This kind of goes beyond the scope of the thread, but you'd mentioned progression, and it got me thinking.  I was reading a thread a while back about the possibility of adding machines to TFC, and one of the suggested structures was a lumber mill.  Right now, of course, a lumber mill would be a bit pointless, because it's so easy to make planks.  My suggestion adds a bit of tedium to the process, which would be bad, unless there was a way around it.  

 

So I'd suggest that a lumber mill would be a multi-block structure that made full plank blocks from logs without the intervening steps, and without nails/pegs.  It and similar machines (regular mill, water/wind mill to run the machines, etc.) would be large buildings, perhaps made out of pressurized wood (requiring 9 blocks/block), so making you lumber mill first would pay off in the long run.  And allow true progression, without removing difficulty.  Because while your increased production would make certain earlier tasks rather trivial, you'd need the increased production to reasonably make the other machines.

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I have been thinking that it might be nice to  have at least one type of block that, no matter how good your tools, takes a while to mine through (like obsidian in vanilla). It would be useful for fortifications, where you don't want players to dig through in seconds. Stone bricks and mortar might be good for that.

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I just started a tread about trowels here.

So I was talking about the necessity of having mortar to place stone blocks. That got me thinking about nails to place wood blocks.

I specially like dunks idea about a tools belt. As long as nails are not too expensive oi time consuming to make, I think it makes the whole process more believable.

I don't think you should need nails to create a wood block, just to place it. So no changes to how we get the crafting table grid.

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What I would suggest is adding a tool belt. Various items like pegs or nails could be added to the tool belt in a separate window. Any crafting recipes or construction that required those items would grab them out of the belt automatically, without bothering the player about it. The second part is where I come up a bit short. I'm not sure what the advantages of pegs or nails to begin with might be (or what better versions of them might do), but I feel it's a direction to point the discussion in.

 

Before I go and sprout a somewhat long post that would probably be more trouble that it's worth,

Basic ideas

 

For the blocks, they hold quite a number of qualities, but when I'm building, I find that the time it takes to break it, whether it's effected by gravity, and whether I can retrieve it safely is the three things that matter the most. Fires rarely happen and explosions are even more rare, so things like blast resistance or whatnot tend to be moot points.

 

So what if the use of pegs/nails/mortar/rivets effect those qualities?

Say, a plank blocks made without any nails/pegs/whatever, would fall like dirt, and collapse into 2~3 planks(item), and break really easily(so might not be a good idea to be swinging that ax in the house). A plank made with pegs could give 4 planks and (insert reasonable random number)~(insert reasonable random number) pegs, fall straight down(like vanilla sand/gravel) and break slightly faster than normal. A plank made with nails would defy gravity(yay gravity-defying nails!), drop a plank block(nails), and break a the same speed as planks now.

 

Cobblestone made without mortar can drop 3~4 stones when broken, and be the falls-like-dirt-and-is-a-pain-to-build-with cobble we know and love.

Cobblestone made with mortal can drop a cobblestone(mortar),and be that gravity-defying cobble that has it's own thread dedicated to it.

 

And so on and so forth.

 

Extras that are most likely not needed

So for my extensively long idea,

First, I think not only nails, pegs, and all that, but also things like yarn/string/rope/etc, glue, wire, leather strips etc and tools such as small hammers, clips/scissors, needles, files, hand sawas etc would be needed to make a 'perfect' item/block.

 

All of these would be carried in the tool belt for easier inventory management and my not being creative enough :/

Depending on what you are making, the needed items will be used, and the needed tools will lose durability accordingly.

the best items and tools will be used first, so if you have a peg and a nail, a nail will be used first. If you have a copper clip, iron clip, and steel clips, the steel will be use first, then iron, then copper.

 

The tiers of tools would only effect it's durability(so a red steel hammer and copper hammer will have the same effect, it's just the red steel one lasts longer)

However, the tools themselves would decide how effect the items are(say, if you don't have a hammer, even colored steel nails will not yield a perfect product)

But the types and amount of the items used will directly effect the resulting creation.

 

Tools will have lower durability if not crafted with the needed materials, and bonus items can be used to 'add' to the finished product(say, a jewel for inlays, a leather strip for a better grip a whetstone to sharpen the edges a bit). Same goes for armor or meal-making(leather/wool padding for comfy armor, cooking knives and seasoning for better meals, etc)

 

Other items such as buckets, it could effect the functionality, such as a shoddily made bucket without nails can break apart, or leak water

 

For building blocks, look at the (way)above :D

Though, some blocks, like glass panes or fences, might just not be craftable without the needed tool and items

 

For functional blocks such as bellows, doors etc, it will suffer a loss in productivity, and might just break during usage, or get other problems, such as a door can break easily, or break even in normal or easy by mobs, or just fall off it's hinges when you open it. Or even refuse to open easily.

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Yes minecraft is about placing blocks.

But TFC is about making it believable.

So I think nail and mortar should be needed to place blocks.

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