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dutchraptor

Straw beds for sleeping.

14 posts in this topic

I was reading the exhaustion thread and it got me thinking about the straw beds. I think what currently exists is quite backwards. Essentially we have a bed that sets your spawn point, but doesn't let you sleep in it. In terms of realism as well as tediousness of the nights, should the straw bed not provide the opposite. It should provide a place to sleep but not change your spawn point.

In my view the straw bed represents the nomadic travel, where as the normal bed represents the settler. However what they have in common is that they both found places to sleep.

Does it not seem a little unbelievable within the context of the game that the straw bed is "uncomfortable".

 

Coinciding with the plan that mobs are being moved underground, straw beds will allow you to sleep through the tedium of night, but keep the threat of respawning far away.

If straw beds could set a new spawn, it may become too easy to wander off where you please.

 

What is really seek in the improvements in this mod, is a switch from surviving based on tedious actions to surviving based on awareness and smart decisions. Instead of grueling through the night until you find tool ores, the challenge could be managing your time so you don't get caught away from your bed at night. I could be wrong though, maybe carrying an easy to make bed around is overpowered.

 

What do you think might work better, the current implementation of straw beds, or ones in which you could sleep but not change your spawn?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The most realistic and believable way to implement beds would be to make sleeping possible, but not fast forward time (whether it sets spawn or not is outside the realm of realism)

 

The problem with this is watching your character lie in a bed is boring, so you would only do it (outside of roleplaying/immersion reasons) to prevent tiredness panalties from occuring. This is something the devs probably don't want to implement

 

The lack of time skip is so that there is actual danger in the game outside of caving

 

Whether or not time skip is reasonable after monsters are all underground pretty much depends on what dunkleosteus is going to do to add replacement danger

 

If that change makes daytime dangerous, then maybe skipping night is reasonable.

 

This is really something we can't discuss on a educated level right now. Its dependent on the difficulty of a unimplemented change

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Yes I would agree.

 

Though I would still like to see what people have to say about it in the current version of the game and how it might adversely affect SMP players. 

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In the current state of the game, having the straw bed skip the night is extremely overpowered. All you have to do is kill one fairly large animal, and gather some straw; two things that are available to do on the very first day of gameplay if you are lucky finding the mob. After that point, you essentially never have to ever worry about monsters again until you go caving. It's basically no different than playing on peaceful difficulty. You would be able to crawl into bed at the first sign of sunset, and make it daytime before any mobs ever spawn.

 

Considering the fact that monster mobs won't be moved underground until they have replacements on the surface so that night is still just as scary, straw beds would still be overpowered at this point in game development as well.

 

Straw beds were implemented with the sole purpose of being able to set your spawn point early on. TFC is a mod that has a lot of travel involved, and many players will travel great distances before finally setting on an area to set up a base. The straw bed makes it so that you are able to set your spawn point wherever you decided to make home, even if you haven't found any sheep or copper yet. This is extremely important on servers and in adventurous SP worlds where players will often travel at least 5,000 blocks from spawn before they settle down. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to keep doing that walk at the very start of the game where combat is much more difficult so players die more often.

 

This is a case of where "believable" means that we throw real-life out the window and implement a mechanic that makes sense for gameplay. Having to fight hostile mobs every night, but at least respawning near home is difficult. Sleeping through the night without setting your spawn is not, because the act of sleeping through the night removes the majority of the danger of death in the first place. It won't matter if your spawn is 5,000 blocks back at world spawn or not, because the only time you would ever die is if you starved to death, or took too much fall damage.

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I think the current mechanic for straw beds setting spawn but not sleeping throught the night is fine, and a woolen bed will do both is good too. What I think would be a great idea is if you can make, using cloth and mabe other materials, is a sleeping bag that will sleep through the night but not set the spawn. Making this about as hard to get as a normal bed would make it great for travel to help keep down monsters far away from home but also allow that if you are killed you dont respawn at some random spot or the spawn point.

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Well, I agree with Kitty, is there any chance to so wolves packs howling at night and attacking the player in the future? maybe implementing a sort of lair positions where wolves packs belong to, and if you get too close to those positions wolves get aggressive towards the player even during daytime.. And as i know, wolves are naturally afraid of humans, one should be very calm and careful when trying to tame it ..and they are very smart, smarter than dogs.. So they could be hunting with strategy trying to surround the players and overcome him/her.. but maybe this is too complex to do, even in vanilla mobs AI isn't so complex, so maybe minecraft isn't fit to it

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I honestly would say that I don't see a problem with going to bed and skipping the night. It's hardly unbalancing things simply because if player won't want to deal with mobs, even beginner is perfectly able to not have to when going to rest.

After all, building a set of walls with some wood around a character is even easier than making a bed. Inability to pass the night isn't really making game more challenging, it simply makes it boring as I can as well hide somewhere, alt+tab out of the game while ensuring that game won't be paused and get back sometime later.

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In the current state of the game, having the straw bed skip the night is extremely overpowered. All you have to do is kill one fairly large animal, and gather some straw; two things that are available to do on the very first day of gameplay if you are lucky finding the mob. After that point, you essentially never have to ever worry about monsters again until you go caving. It's basically no different than playing on peaceful difficulty. You would be able to crawl into bed at the first sign of sunset, and make it daytime before any mobs ever spawn.

 

Considering the fact that monster mobs won't be moved underground until they have replacements on the surface so that night is still just as scary, straw beds would still be overpowered at this point in game development as well.

 

Straw beds were implemented with the sole purpose of being able to set your spawn point early on. TFC is a mod that has a lot of travel involved, and many players will travel great distances before finally setting on an area to set up a base. The straw bed makes it so that you are able to set your spawn point wherever you decided to make home, even if you haven't found any sheep or copper yet. This is extremely important on servers and in adventurous SP worlds where players will often travel at least 5,000 blocks from spawn before they settle down. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have to keep doing that walk at the very start of the game where combat is much more difficult so players die more often.

 

This is a case of where "believable" means that we throw real-life out the window and implement a mechanic that makes sense for gameplay. Having to fight hostile mobs every night, but at least respawning near home is difficult. Sleeping through the night without setting your spawn is not, because the act of sleeping through the night removes the majority of the danger of death in the first place. It won't matter if your spawn is 5,000 blocks back at world spawn or not, because the only time you would ever die is if you starved to death, or took too much fall damage.

 

I would agree if surviving the night was genuinely hard, but as visitor points out digging a hole or making a straw tower can be done straight away. The danger only exists for new players who don't know what they're doing anyways. The point about danger becomes moot when you see that all users eventually learn to just dig in and alt+tab for the night.

 

In the current mechanics there is only a tiny chance of losing all your gear, being able to spawn right beside it if you please. Removing the danger that only a complete beginner will suffer from makes my suggestion the difficult one. I only suggested removing the spawn setting function to maintain a balanced difficulty.

The tedium will of the current mechanics exists because you are forced to wait the night out, where as being able to sleep but not set a spawn point only punishes you when you make a mistake.

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TFC has always had the problem of being too easy. Mobs (except creepers) can't break blocks, staying in chunks for long periods of time reduces mob spawn, torches are cheap and never go out etc.

 

You shouldn't be able to just dig in the ground and live in a two block hole without suffocating, mobs should be able to get you in on the top of pillars (the obvious solution is increase skeleton attack range, but if skeletons are going underground, I have no idea what dunkleosteus is going to do to make mobs attack pillared players)

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I think instead of changing the purpose of the straw bed (Kitty is right, first-night time skipping is overpowered) we need a late-game solution for exploration. Perhaps a bedroll that is crafted with plenty of cloth and feathers along with a metal clasp (to make it unavailable to new players). To use the bedroll place it on the ground and then make a fire pit 1 block away. The amount of night time you skip should be equivalent to the collective burn times of the logs in the firepit GUI. In order to keep exploration a challenge I don't think any log type should be enough to skip the entire night. Even using 5 oak logs you would still wake up early enough for mobs to spawn (but just barely) so that you still have danger but without the annoyance of being forced to make a 2x2 straw hut and afk the night away for safety.

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I have to agree with dutchraptor on his point about alt-tabbing.

Monsters in TFC are only a threat if I'm roaming the woods at night. Playing hardcore, why would I ever want to do such thing pre-steel? There's much lower cave content in TFC, meaning there's much more monsters on the surface. Try punching a zombie - and you'll either run for your life the rest of the night or be eaten alive by the horde that will just keep on coming out of thin air, way faster than you can kill them all (hoard mechanic seems to still be balanced around vanilla damage, where you kill in 5 hits max, whereas in TFC it's more like 10 to 15, so two-three times as many zombies to spawn/alert).

So I'm just building a straw shack or digging into a cliff face and sit in there waiting for sun to burn all that filth away. This way my true enemy is actually the hunger and the fact that hunger damage is bugged, so unless I'm lucky to find enough food in the day before, I can easily be dead by the next sunrise without ever seeing a zombie up-close.

 

I'm obviously not hardcore enough for all of you out there, but my point is - monsters in Minecraft are not the main threat, they are just a way to force a specific playstyle, where you are becoming vulnerable to the real threat.

Of cource if one installs something like the ZombieAwareness mod and the one I can't remember the name of, where zombies could dig even through obsidian and build towers out of their comrades' bodies, then we can talk about how much of a threat monsters are.

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The horde mechanic is just implemented horribly and is exploitable if you know which zombie contacted/summoned the other zombies (the contacted/summoned zombies AIs are tied to the initator/summoner). This would make a lot of sense if it was a necromancer doing the contacting/summoning, but zombies shouldn't be controlling other zombies.

 

Its true that dangerous mobs should be more of a threat (case in point a straw shack protects you from danger), but the horde mechanic is either unfair or exploitable

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I have to agree with dutchraptor on his point about alt-tabbing.

Monsters in TFC are only a threat if I'm roaming the woods at night. Playing hardcore, why would I ever want to do such thing pre-steel? There's much lower cave content in TFC, meaning there's much more monsters on the surface. Try punching a zombie - and you'll either run for your life the rest of the night or be eaten alive by the horde that will just keep on coming out of thin air, way faster than you can kill them all (hoard mechanic seems to still be balanced around vanilla damage, where you kill in 5 hits max, whereas in TFC it's more like 10 to 15, so two-three times as many zombies to spawn/alert).

So I'm just building a straw shack or digging into a cliff face and sit in there waiting for sun to burn all that filth away. This way my true enemy is actually the hunger and the fact that hunger damage is bugged, so unless I'm lucky to find enough food in the day before, I can easily be dead by the next sunrise without ever seeing a zombie up-close.

 

I'm obviously not hardcore enough for all of you out there, but my point is - monsters in Minecraft are not the main threat, they are just a way to force a specific playstyle, where you are becoming vulnerable to the real threat.

Of cource if one installs something like the ZombieAwareness mod and the one I can't remember the name of, where zombies could dig even through obsidian and build towers out of their comrades' bodies, then we can talk about how much of a threat monsters are.

I agree with you. Since in multiplayer beds are all but useless why not give then fully to single player? so the night will pass fast instead of having to be doing nothing in a hole? What is the difference? 

I actually liked the way minecraft Beta 1.7.4 behave even if it was bugged. 1 block was not enough to protect you from the mobs.

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Spoke with Bioxx about this suggestion. The official answer is no.

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