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Jaina47

World Generation controls.

24 posts in this topic

I apologize if this topic has already been somewhere, I haven't found it. But it will be good, if the world generator had additional controls like world shape and distribution of bioms. Server world is always limited and I think administrator must have control over it. To make it an archipelago or have more specific biomes, or remove some biomes. This settings will open a whole range of new options of survival for the players.

I don't know how hard to do this and whether it's in the plans, but it would be magnificent to have such a thing. And while I have an opportunity i would like to say a Big Thank You for a great mod! =)

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I don't know if I would personally use the setting to disable certain biomes but I can see it adding a new level of challenge for players and possibly being enjoyable if a player wants to try an arctic wasteland survival situation without the temptation to abandon their desolate homeland.  What really does intrigue me though is world-shape and I have no idea if it would actually be possible.

 

Instead of the world being a flat square it could be interesting if the world was actually round... and no, I don't mean angling everything to have softer edges.  By this I mean you would have a maximum x and y coordinate before your negative became positive... i.e. you could walk straight forward for thousands upon thousands of blocks and end up back at the spot you were standing originally.  I doubt this is possible but it would be amazing if it were and was actually implemented. 

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I thought it might be useful to set the maximum size of the world, a world that I played had the north and south poles at about +/- 30000, it we could choose a smaller world there would be less travelling needed to reach different climates if it suited that game/server

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the control ovr

 

I thought it might be useful to set the maximum size of the world, a world that I played had the north and south poles at about +/- 30000

Yes! Only then you can have a harmonious world where you can build a storyline and setting.

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Terrain shape is probably possible, if you wanted a world biased towards mountains or small island chains or something, but biomes are different. This is because the shape of the terrain is controlled by what you'd call a "biome" in vanilla. Climate isnt though. The temperature and moisture levels are completely independant and can't simply be disabled. They dont operate as specific values but as functions. In vanilla, you have "taiga biome". It will have snow and spruce trees and you can simply disable it. In TFC, you have latitudes and seasons. Temperature is calculated based on where you are in the world. I guess it might be possible to skew the climate towards a cooler, wetter, hotter or drier world, but that would only shift the range. If you lost the snow, you'd probably get unbearably hot around the equator.

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setting where to spawn would be nice too, like normal, equatorial, northward, southward, north/south polar circle and so on, opinions?

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Terrain shape is probably possible, if you wanted a world biased towards mountains or small island chains or something, but biomes are different. This is because the shape of the terrain is controlled by what you'd call a "biome" in vanilla. Climate isnt though. The temperature and moisture levels are completely independant and can't simply be disabled. They dont operate as specific values but as functions. In vanilla, you have "taiga biome". It will have snow and spruce trees and you can simply disable it. In TFC, you have latitudes and seasons. Temperature is calculated based on where you are in the world. I guess it might be possible to skew the climate towards a cooler, wetter, hotter or drier world, but that would only shift the range. If you lost the snow, you'd probably get unbearably hot around the equator.

 
still, even that would be great!
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Generator options and config features are reasonably wanted.

Sorry, for that I know this was discussed before for not once, but would be awesome to have some of the Dev's take another look on

TerrainControl bukkit plugin

http://dev.bukkit.org/bukkit-plugins/terrain-control/

which is an open-source b.t.w., and provides wide spectre of generation featurescontrolsoptions.

or

WorldPainter program

http://www.worldpainter.net/

open-source aswell, and as welcome as the plugin above.

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Terrain shape is probably possible, if you wanted a world biased towards mountains or small island chains or something, but biomes are different. This is because the shape of the terrain is controlled by what you'd call a "biome" in vanilla. Climate isnt though. The temperature and moisture levels are completely independant and can't simply be disabled. They dont operate as specific values but as functions. In vanilla, you have "taiga biome". It will have snow and spruce trees and you can simply disable it. In TFC, you have latitudes and seasons. Temperature is calculated based on where you are in the world. I guess it might be possible to skew the climate towards a cooler, wetter, hotter or drier world, but that would only shift the range. If you lost the snow, you'd probably get unbearably hot around the equator.

Allow me to introduce you to location-scale transformations, then. If your base temperature function is T(x), then the location-scale family of that function is s T(x) + d. d controls the offset of temperature, while s controls the variance of your function, and together control the minimum and maximum temperatures. If the range of your function T(x) is (100,-50), then s T(x) + d has a range of (100s + d, -50s + d). Let me now demonstrate that you can get a temperature range of (100,32) with the appropriate choice of s and d. The maximum temperature is 100 = 100s + d, and the minimum temperature is 32 = -50s + d. This is a system of two simultaneous equations with two unknowns. It is therefore solvable:

 

s = 1 - d/100

32 = -50(1 - d/100) + d = 3d/2 - 50

d = 164/3

s = 136/300

 

This will give us a function that is exactly the same rough profile as T(x) except that it is squished and shifted up so that all temperatures remain above freezing.

 

Anyway, the upshot of this is that your temperature and moistness functions are controlled by parameters as well as by the seed, and we ask for control of those parameters. If not specified, these parameters may be set to neutral values.

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Allow me to introduce you to location-scale transformations, then. If your base temperature function is T(x), then the location-scale family of that function is s T(x) + d. d controls the offset of temperature, while s controls the variance of your function, and together control the minimum and maximum temperatures. If the range of your function T(x) is (100,-50), then s T(x) + d has a range of (100s + d, -50s + d). Let me now demonstrate that you can get a temperature range of (100,32) with the appropriate choice of s and d. The maximum temperature is 100 = 100s + d, and the minimum temperature is 32 = -50s + d. This is a system of two simultaneous equations with two unknowns. It is therefore solvable:

 

s = 1 - d/100

32 = -50(1 - d/100) + d = 3d/2 - 50

d = 164/3

s = 136/300

 

This will give us a function that is exactly the same rough profile as T(x) except that it is squished and shifted up so that all temperatures remain above freezing.

 

Anyway, the upshot of this is that your temperature and moistness functions are controlled by parameters as well as by the seed, and we ask for control of those parameters. If not specified, these parameters may be set to neutral values.

(ew Fahrenheit)

 

This is possible but undesirable. The temperature range itself is what we want; shrinking it so that there are no "bad" temperature zones just makes the game easy.

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(ew Fahrenheit)shrinking it so that there are no "bad" temperature zones just makes the game easy.

No, we want only the "bad" zones! It'll be so much fun serviving there =)

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No, we want only the "bad" zones! It'll be so much fun serviving there =)

 

What he meant was the code suggested would only shrink it and get rid of the bad zones. It's really hard to make everything bad zone and get rid of the good ones.

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To control length of the season, would be good too. Winter is coming =)

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To control length of the season, would be good too. Winter is coming =)

There are waay too many things that are linked up to static and consistent seasons for that to happen

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There are waay too many things that are linked up to static and consistent seasons for that to happen

Well, thanks anyway. I hope you will come up with at least something that is useful and possible to do.

 

 

I don't know if I would personally use the setting to disable certain biomes but I can see it adding a new level of challenge for players and possibly being enjoyable if a player wants to try an arctic wasteland survival situation without the temptation to abandon their desolate homeland.  What really does intrigue me though is world-shape and I have no idea if it would actually be possible.

 

Instead of the world being a flat square it could be interesting if the world was actually round... and no, I don't mean angling everything to have softer edges.  By this I mean you would have a maximum x and y coordinate before your negative became positive... i.e. you could walk straight forward for thousands upon thousands of blocks and end up back at the spot you were standing originally.  I doubt this is possible but it would be amazing if it were and was actually implemented. 

 

world can be seen as "round" with the help of Mod for world borders. It will teleport player on the other end of the map when he is approaching the edge. The world itself will remain a flat square of course.

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setting where to spawn would be nice too, like normal, equatorial, northward, southward, north/south polar circle and so on, opinions?

you can change spawn point with the help of mods or plugins.

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How about the world spawns with a sort of general biome like Scottish highlands or African which would limit temperatures, rainfall and EVT(Highlands would be wetter and colder, Africa drier and hotter). You could either leave this as random or select which one you want. This would improve the feel of a sort of continental world and create more realistic survival scenarios so you can't just go run for a while and have every food in the game, instead the world would have certain foods which can't spawn. This allow control of temperature, biomes available to your world and what foods you can get (maybe ores and rock types as well!) This could also work with the world limit by setting the world limits within certain co-ords so the climate doesn't go out of the believable climate for that world biome. This creates a scene for a server and more believablity for the game which if I am not mistaken is one of the goals for TFC. No idea how difficult this would be to implement, but from what I know it is achievable.

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Expanding on your idea. What if we could have giant continents and the distance from the equator to the poles was increased? then make it so we can choose initial spawn. The next thing we need is to have trees, fruit trees, vegetables and grains to be more climate restrictive. No more bananas on cold latitudes or blueberries on hotter climates. We have plenty of food in TFC, no one needs to have a orchard with every single kind of fruit.

Also with the new food taste if you need a certain food not available in your area, you would need to trade for it with other players. Is a bonus for multiplay interaction. 

In the end it would work like this: The player would say, I live in canada and want to have the weather I am used to in the game, so He or She would choose the appropriate latitude for initial spawn and would spawn in a biome that would have the same kind of trees he has in real life where he lives, also the same kind of native food. the same would be like for someone who lives by the equator. Giant trees and exotic fruits.

Off course we need a Random setting for the adventurous folks. 

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@Djakuta

 

Excellent idea, seems to be easy to do, compared to the huge requests we made overall, although very reasonable for the gameplay.

 

 

Also, TerrainControl has an option called MapFromImage, which is about adding a custom .png image of the desired world, simply biome-based, not really related to the post above, but could solve a lot the mapmaking desires.

 

Posted Image

 

Each colour gets the biome ID assigned to it in the config file.

And the generator works by reading the colormap.

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That could be very cool for plain old custom seeds, that type of thing. They could be presets, maybe?

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In vanilla there is the tiny biomes option, maybe something like this for the stone layers would also be fun to play around with.

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hello this is the closest type of tread I could find for my idea. I've been looking around at the suggestions and posts, and I noticed somebody say that you cant walk more than 1-2 km without running into an ocean.

also because of this getting salt from oceans would be to easy and make the salt have less value. well I've played lots of mods and one of them had a configuration folder where you could choose a land mass to water percentage. so I was wondering if it would be possible to do something like that in TFC or just always have it set to the land to water percentage of the real world.  

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In vanilla there is the tiny biomes option, maybe something like this for the stone layers would also be fun to play around with.

 

This is almost exactly what I am wanting.  I play with at most two other people on a private server.  We don't mind hunting for things we need, but the world ends up being so huge that we end up enabling teleport just so that half of our TFC experience isn't spent walking from 'where the copper is' to 'where the tin is' and back.  And enabling TP is experience-ruining, IMHO.

 

I don't need to make everything easy to find, or get rid of the "bad" biomes.  I just want to make the whole world smaller so that there is less distance from "maximum North" to "maximum South" -- still have all the gradients that exist now, just have them be configurably smaller.

 

Same with the oceans.  I'd rather not have my server grind to a halt because someone is generating chunk after chunk of useless ocean looking for a nearby Island with pigs on it.  The ability to change land/ocean ratios would be nice.

Edited by eogen
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Same here, I find totally normal than generation configurations are difficult to implement, but i think that is a great thing for any "world generation" game : Minecraft, Don't Starve... there are plenty of games which allow that. Yes, maybe some kids would like to make the game easy, but it also allows to create a lot of interesting challenging gameplays, specific lanscapes, regional thematic modpacks, multiplayer regional based economics and so more... I would really enjoy to have some possibilities to tweak TFC world generation like many players i think.

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