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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Bioxx

Torch Discussion

184 posts in this topic

I would simply like to point out that while it is a small sample size, our poll is currently showing that 17.2% out of those who voted are indeed editing their config files. And out of the users who voted they dislike the mechanic, a whopping 32.6% of them changed their configs.

 

 

I'd like to point out that since TFC is designed or multiplayer, most people are playing on servers and a lot of the people who didn't change their configs haven't done so because it's mostly out of their control. I also assume numerous people, including the person who runs the server I play on, are simply waiting until extrafirma updates to get lanterns from that

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The point is that many people in this thread are raising actual legitmate concerns, doing so in a civil manner, and are being dismissed and/or ignored. By you, by other people, even by Kitty.

With this statement I'd like to quote the OP for one of the huge points that you guys are missing here.

At the very least, when I get to lanterns of some kind they will require a fuel source but will last quite a while. Unlike vanilla minecraft I believe that having to continually restock your resources because they get consumed over time is a good thing. Permanence is bad.

The HUGE key words you guys are missing: "when I get to lanterns"We are not ignoring or dismissing your concerns, they were already addressed in the OP! The fact of the matter is that even if lanterns were added in the next major build of TFC (and I say major build because hotfixes very rarely add new content), that is still 4 TO 6 MONTHS away. We are using that current period of time to determine just how things should be balanced.
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I'd like to point out that since TFC is designed or multiplayer, most people are playing on servers and a lot of the people who didn't change their configs haven't done so because it's mostly out of their control. I also assume numerous people, including the person who runs the server I play on, are simply waiting until extrafirma updates to get lanterns from that

That is the responsibility of the server admin to listen to their playerbase and adjust configs as needed. All it takes is the editing of a single line in a single file on the server, and the change is made for every single client that connects.There is a certain amount of responsibility that is generated when you decide to host a server. You cannot put all of that responsibility on the developers of the mods you wish to put on your server. You are responsible for your server, and you alone are responsible for using the options provided for you to keep your players happy.
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this is a cry, have pumpkin for alternatively (for now)

Do not like the look of the pumpkin, put a hole cover with a block use the chisel the block. Ready is the place with light.

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With this statement I'd like to quote the OP for one of the huge points that you guys are missing here.The HUGE key words you guys are missing: "when I get to lanterns"We are not ignoring or dismissing your concerns, they were already addressed in the OP! The fact of the matter is that even if lanterns were added in the next major build of TFC (and I say major build because hotfixes very rarely add new content), that is still 4 TO 6 MONTHS away. We are using that current period of time to determine just how things should be balanced.

The huge thing YOU are missing is that lanterns will not address the lighting needs of a huge amount of people, and they won't be in the mod for a year or so.Vanilla torches have a very specific purpose. They give you a convenient freedom that makes the game less boring, because you can do the fun stuff and don't have to worry about replacing torches. That allows you to have a huge variety of playstyles in one game.In TFC you are going the opposite route. You remove all the convenience, forcing a very narrow playstyle that matches your own. You may enjoy making a small hovel that has two torches in it, but a lot of people won't.You ARE dismissing and ignoring feedback that doesn't suit you, and you have been doing it since forever. This is not something I noticed today, it's always been here. It's everywhere, too, in the mod, on the wiki, on these forums...
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My point.

Config changes is naturaly for server hosts, i remember of rate decay is normaly changed from standard for a server admin think is good.

I see the point of the discussion is not whether or not the configuration.

The issue is that the torches keep firing every two days is boring. (And it is)

Sorry, for my ridiculous english.

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The huge thing YOU are missing is that lanterns will not address the lighting needs of a huge amount of people, and they won't be in the mod for a year or so.Vanilla torches have a very specific purpose. They give you a convenient freedom that makes the game less boring, because you can do the fun stuff and don't have to worry about replacing torches. That allows you to have a huge variety of playstyles in one game.In TFC you are going the opposite route. You remove all the convenience, forcing a very narrow playstyle that matches your own. You may enjoy making a small hovel that has two torches in it, but a lot of people won't.You ARE dismissing and ignoring feedback that doesn't suit you, and you have been doing it since forever. This is not something I noticed today, it's always been here. It's everywhere, too, in the mod, on the wiki, on these forums...

 

With spawn protection, I don't have to worry about placing or relighting torches anyway. There's literally zero torches anywhere near my house and farm (occupying about an 8x10 chunk area), and it's perfectly safe at night. The only significant effect torch relighting has had on me is that distant mines can now go dark and become dangerous again. Honestly, I think that's an awesome feature.

 

The only problem I'm having right now is that spawn protection sometimes doesn't extend as far as you expect because of chunk boundaries, leading to weird little pockets of monster spawning in some parts of our walled-in town (away from my house/farm, but between my house and the one right next to it, even though they're pretty close by), just because we don't idle in a random corner for long enough.

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With this statement I'd like to quote the OP for one of the huge points that you guys are missing here.The HUGE key words you guys are missing: "when I get to lanterns"We are not ignoring or dismissing your concerns, they were already addressed in the OP! The fact of the matter is that even if lanterns were added in the next major build of TFC (and I say major build because hotfixes very rarely add new content), that is still 4 TO 6 MONTHS away. We are using that current period of time to determine just how things should be balanced.

No I'm not ignoring it (and I'm pretty sure everyone else isn't either. At the very least their statements aren't hard to reconcile with "I don't like the way things are RIGHT THIS VERY MOMENT"), I'm saying that "in 6 months" is a ridiculous amount of time to wait for a change that SHOULD have gone live with the torch change. Maybe have the lanterns disabled by default so you can see what the torch burnout does, maybe even disable the crafting recipes and see that way then add a new config in a hotfix/patch. Not "let's break a core Minecraft mechanic and use our entire player base as ALPHA testers" because I sure don't consider core gameplay overhauls to be open beta test material, at the very least not as opt-out; make it opt in and then you get willing testers.Monsters and fighting are a core part of the game (Bioxx even said so), which means affecting our main means of dealing with them, as well as just about the ONLY reasonable light source we have for aesthetic purposes WITHOUT GIVING US AN ALTERNATIVE just strikes me as a bad idea.----------  

That is the responsibility of the server admin to listen to their playerbase and adjust configs as needed. All it takes is the editing of a single line in a single file on the server, and the change is made for every single client that connects.There is a certain amount of responsibility that is generated when you decide to host a server. You cannot put all of that responsibility on the developers of the mods you wish to put on your server. You are responsible for your server, and you alone are responsible for using the options provided for you to keep your players happy.

You are assuming that:A )The playerbase is willing to raise a stink instead of tolerating the change or just not playing. This could simply be another straw on the camel's back or the final one that breaks it. Most people are actually very non-confrontational, and non-communicative. I've found out about a lot of problems from second-hand conversations being brought to my attention by one of the participants, both in my time as a chatroom moderator and as a server admin. Getting someone to actually tell me "Yeah, I don't like X" is like pulling teeth with a set of pliers made of silly putty most of the time.B )The admins actually know this is a configurable change. While they SHOULD know that, if wishes were wings pigs would fly. There SHOULD be no conflicts over oil in the middle east, we SHOULD have vehicles that run on renewable energy and power plants that work as carbon sequestration methods, the NSA SHOULD have undergone reform years ago...My entire point boils down to "keep this as disabled by default until we've got lanterns and we can actually try this out properly" because I do think this is a nice bit of early/mid game tedium. But ONLY if it has a mid/late game workaround/fix.Otherwise it's just an all-game tedium with literally no benefit other than "those torch forests are gone" which could have been solved in other ways. Make torches that are within 14 blocks of at least 4 other torches spawn monsters or burn out, or maybe make them unplaceable at certain densities, or... yeah. What ended up happening is "Let's make lighting builds a pain, and give our spawn protection a workout". The issue is that within three days people on this thread pointed out some flaws in the current implementation and just recently Cerus corroborated with actual experience.Most of us aren't saying "EWW THIS CHANGE IS STUPID YOU GUYS SUCK", most of us are saying "we think you implemented the change poorly, we'd like you to fix that".----------Note that I actually LIKE this change. I always thought torches not burning out was really odd... even Notch was seriously contemplating adding it at one point. But you've disabled (intentionally or not) most of the other options we have aesthetically and functionally. We're now mostly limited to cheating (vanilla torches, glowstone, redstone lamps); using ugly Jack-o-Lanterns; using the unintuitive, dangerous, and VERY late-game lava; or using another mod.The simplest way to "fix" this is just make the default for the config files set torch burnout to 0. That doesn't overwrite the already set config files, and means all the new people don't have to deal with it if they don't want to. Put up a text prompt/warning saying "If you like the new torch burnout or don't and would like to change it, check the wiki for instructions on how to change a configuration setting". Et voila! Anyone that has been playing with this and likes it will either keep their config or set the new default back to 48 if they create a new config file, and the rest of us can just go back to playing the way we liked. Odds are all the data you're trying to collect via LP'ers will keep coming in, and the huge portion of us that are complaining in this thread will shut up finally.-----------I so wish you could pop up a config prompt before letting people into the game... then again more tedium before play would probably suck.

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I'm at the point where I no longer care. The answer to changing the default config is no. If you don't like it, tough shit.

 

This thread is now locked.

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