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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
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      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
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Tsuarok

Tall Worlds Mod

11 posts in this topic

So... this may be old news for some of you, but Cuchaz is building the Tall Worlds Mod, a cubic chunks mod which will raise the height cap from 256 to 16,000,000, setting the sea level at y=0 and going up and down by 8,000km.  

 

Obviously in order to use this in TFC, terrain generation would need to be modified rather heavily, but I think that it would be pretty much amazing to have this option in TFC.

 

The mod isn't done yet, and will be released for 1.8, so we'll not see it here for a while, but this has me so excited I might just have to teach myself to code so that I can integrate this into TFC.

 

Ocean trenches, actual mountains!  I think this would be amazing!

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The Tall Worlds mod is going to be made using the M3L (assuming Microsoft doesn't destroy the Minecraft 1 modding community)

 

M3L doesn't use coremods. Its planned to be compatible with forge mods that don't change world generation. Cuchaz currently has no way of having forge mods to "communicate" with M3L

 

Mods that change world generation would have to be written using the M3L

 

Basically "intergrating the TWM into TFC" means rewriting world generation into a new game engine. The non world generation tech tree might be able to be separated into a separate forge mod depending on how well the planned M3L-forge compatibility works out

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Sounds like I'll have a lot of work to do :)

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Sounds like I'll have a lot of work to do :)

thats an understatement. If this mod proves to function reasonably, Bioxx and I might have to talk with each other and this mod developer about permanent integration into TFC as a single mod. cubic chunks is something we've talked about for quite a while.

 

Although, M3L is a bit of a turn off.

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Well that sounds amazing.  Honestly, I was pretty much just joking; I don't think I'd have the time to introduce myself to java and go on to code something so complex within the lifespan of minecraft.

 

About M3L, I don't think he really wanted to make it at first.  I guess he felt that the forge team was somewhat hostile to his requests, and he wanted to do something that was completely open source and disallowed core mods as a way to ensure cross-mod compatibility.  Something about being able to create your own hooks instead of modifying base classes.  Whatever that means.  

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Hello everyone.  Might as well necro this thread just in case!

So, since the last post of this thread, there has been some considerable progress made on Tall Worlds.  A functional prototype is out, and it certainly proves that cubic chunks can work in Minecraft without much more resources.  HOWEVER, it is still incredibly buggy and many of the game's features do not work with the mod as is.  These issues are massive and are not trivial to fix.

 

To quote the mod's creator, Cuchaz:

 

 

The reality is, stable/compatible cubic chunks aren't coming to Minecraft unless

  1. an advanced modder (or modders) can sustainably donate tons and tons of time to the project for free,
  2. the community raises money to pay for the aforementioned modder's time, or
  3. Mojang adopts the project and devotes their resources to it.

 

Number 3 is absolutely never going to happen.  Ever.  There is no incentive for Mojang to implement a feature that will not really bring in anyone new, and that will mainly serve to just satisfy a small insignificant fraction of the fanbase. 

Currently Cuchaz is trying to see if #2 is feasible.  He has a poll going on in the Tall Worlds thread in minecraftforum.net to see if people would be willing to consider donating a small amount of money every month to support at least a part-time endeavor to complete the mod or get it in such a state that the community would be more likely to complete it.

Also, though this mod may never be compatible with Forge, the Mod Loader it is built for (M3L) is built to use as much of the Forge API as possible and is meant to make it possible for Forge mods to be compatible with this mod loader without too many fundamental changes.  So, if this mod is ever completed, it might actually be a possibility to get this to work with the TFC we all know and love.

So, please feel free to check the post out and vote one way or another in the poll.  :)  It would be amazing to see this actually happen!!!

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After checking the poll results, doesn't look like the majority of people want to donate. Anyway, i don't really see any benefits to this mod or what its selling point is. Having cubic chunks and sky high worlds just for posterity isnt something exciting. The amplified terrain in the new MC versions is quite tall enough. 

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ya, 16mil was a really overboard choice.  You couldn't even do anything with that.  If it takes half a second to jump one block, jumping 8mil blocks would take 4 mil seconds.  That's a bit over 6 rl weeks of *non-stop* jumping. 

 

Morover, irl, Mt Everest is a bit over 8k meters tall.  Not 8 mil.

 

Below the surface, a general rule of thumb is 25C(77F) temperature increase per km of depth.  so at 8k km below the earth, you'd be around 200C (616F).  So a regular human can't survive more than 1.5km even below surface.  The continental crust itself is estimated to be 50km thick at most.  Then you're into semi-liquid mantle. 

 

So that project is a pretty good example of the maker not really considering beforehand what is feasible or realistic in terms of limits.  I'm not saying it would have necessarily affected the mechanics, since they were doing cubic chunks.  But why?  16mil was way, way overkill.  8k meters up and down would have been plenty.  I might have been able to hop to the top of mount everest in 2 rl hours then.  They didn't try to *sell it* as something people could actually use, cubic chunks notwithstanding, and this is why they have no real interest, imo. 

Edited by Darmo
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The point of the mod is not to make 16 million meter tall worlds or anything like that.  16 million blocks is just a red herring.  The point is to make the game handle world generation in a more robust way that can, among potentially many other things, allow for increased build heights. 

With how chunks are handled now, it is not possible to get much higher in max build height without significantly hurting performance.  Cubic chunks allows the possibility to expand beyond the current build height without affecting performance at all, if not improving performance, whether it be 1000 meters or 16 million meters.

 

In addition to increasing build heights, it can make modding and simulating certain things much easier/possible, especially any sort of features that are altitude dependent, or that would benefit from having the world divided up into cubes instead of the tall chunks we have now.

For example, say you want to make a mod that allows for biome variation vertically in addition to horizontally.  The current way of handling chunks makes that rather tricky, whereas cubic chunks can allow for simply taking the current biome generation methods and applying a vertical component.  There are other examples of where cubic chunks would be helpful as well, but I would recommend looking through the Tall Worlds and related posts.

 

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Ya, I know, which is why I mentioned the limits wouldn't really affect the mechanics.  But with regard to nobody really being willing to donate to it,  part of that *may* be because they *sold it* using 16mil, which no player can use, and they know it, so the player says 'this won't help me I can't use this I'm not donating'.   Whereas maybe if the author had *sold* it with a more sane number, they might have had more interest.  Doesn't change the mechanics, it changes the *perception*.  And when you're asking for donations, perception is everything.

Edited by Darmo
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Ah, I see.  I do think you are right; perception IS everything here.

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