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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Kittychanley

Torch Poll

Torch Extinguishing   290 members have voted

  1. 1. After playing with the new torch mechanic, what is your opinion?

    • I like the mechanic, and I even changed the config files to make it harder.
      10
    • I like the mechanic, and am using the default config values.
      175
    • I like the mechanic, but changed the config files to make it a bit easier.
      28
    • I dislike the mechanic, and am using the default config values.
      45
    • I dislike the mechanic, and changed the config files to turn it off completely.
      26
    • I turned the mechanic off in the config files without even trying it first.
      6

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

114 posts in this topic

I generally like it but I cheat in vanilla minecraft torches for lighting my base.

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It is not that we're not willing to listen to the community. It's that Bioxx has already stated that more semi-permanent light sources are very likely to be added in future builds. However, those future builds are likely to be released many months to a year from now, which makes it irrelevant to the discussion of how people are playing the game right now.

That's pretty good to hear. I think many people just want to see better lighting alternatives for houses and bases. Many people make thier lighting discreet, and hiding a torch behind glass becomes a waste for relighting it.I like and tolerate the relighting process, but for keeping a larger place lit, I've had to leave my faith to the spawn protection mechanic, with very mixed results. That also being said, unless a town hires someone to be the town torch lighter. (Even though someone could make the argument that all the players there would make the spawn protection mechanic wider spread and stronger, I don't think anyone likes walking down dark streets at night.) Maybe, a permanent light option could be made that can't, or has a chance not to be recovered if it's broken. That way it's saved for permanent use at the cost of remaking it, and since it's cost would be more than worth what a torch could do everywhere else, it'd balance the mechanic in a way everyone could agree with.I'm just trying to juggle ideas here to see what sticks and makes the majority more at ease, but in the end of all this, the config does have the option to change torch mechanics, so that's what it is for single player use, but people on servers are going to have to buckle down and bear what the server owner has set for it.

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I didn't like the mechanic when it was first proposed as it makes caving, especially in some of the massive underground complexes pretty much impossible.. even in iron armour in B78 it would takes days to light up large caverns to make exploring them possible.

 

With the current mechanic, having played for some time, it's just tedious and irritating.. I don't want to have to spend time going round an relighting torches just to keep my base lit.. it stops me doing anything else..

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I don't see the personal value of a longer burning light source for the mid to late game that will cost metal being of any value. Why exactly would one need a mid-game light source that still extinguishes? 

Because Bioxx is against ANY permanent light source. Honestly I can see his point, and if we had (in-game) month/year long light sources (so actual real-life weeks) then we could enjoy the torches realistically burning out without having to rely on building a cramped base, hoping our fellow players don't stay logged on a lot while we're offline, and using the absolutely hideous jack-o-lanterns (which you can't always hide), and horrifically dangerous and late-game lava for our light sources when we can't be lighting the darn things every real life hour.Which is why I said "I dislike the mechanic, and changed the config files to turn it off completely." despite the fact that I do actually like the mechanic. Because with the way the game is at the current time, the actual answer to the question they REALLY are asking with the poll (not "What is your opinion about torches burning out as a mechanic", but "how do you like the mechanic of torch burnout as currently implemented in TFC") is "hell no, change it back until you get an actual alternative both in spawn protection and aesthetic lighting"The instant they give me lanterns that last a real-life week (or, honestly permanent... but Bioxx doesn't like infinite light sources so there's a snowball's chance in hell of THAT getting into the game), I'll change my answer to "I love it!" Because it really does make the early game more suspenseful and makes caving more difficult, makes it a (relatively) difficult task to secure a mine, and all sorts of intriguing gameplay changes for the early game... but that's all this is, a neat change for the EARLY game with no mid-to-late alternatives... and that's why I'm waiting until ExtraFirma updates to 1.7.10, so I don't have to keep playing with non-default settings because while I like the change I can't stand the lack of reasonable alternatives.

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I had to read a couple of posts here to understand how they actually work.  I *did* discover I could relight them,

but did not actually notice that that was actually free.

 

I'm fine with the way they are now.

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I think that 48 hours makes a lot of sense in the context of a game that has additional lighting options.

 

I originally voted that I like the mechanic and use the default values, but I am thinking about changing that to 'edited config to make it easier.'

 

I think that until we have some longer-lasting options (candles that do not have to be relit as frequently but have a smaller light radius. Lanterns that use some manner of fuel and can last for a very long time as long as they are full) I think a good compromise might be to make torches last longer until more lighting options are available.

 

72 hours per torch might be a little easier to deal with in larger settlements. When we have other options for lighting our settlements that will be less labor-intensive, we can drop the torch burn-time back down to 48.

 

Just a thought.

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One of the worst things (for me anyways) in vanilla minecraft is the lighting mechanic affecting mob spawn. I hate putting torches everywhere, and the the time it takes to hide lighting can be epic.

 

My favorite mods in minecraft all have had an item in them that adds lighting. Whether it be Extra Utilities Magnum Torch that elimates spawn withing 64 blocks, Thaumcraft's Arcane Lamp and I think it was Ars Magica that had a lamp as well. Thaumcraft i liked the best though.

 

Having a place safe from mob spawns is an essential part of minecraft. One of the first things you do is make a well lit home.

 

To have to do it over and over again and not have a safe haven is just going to be tedious. Not to mention, hidden lighting having to be "Dug up" to be lit again.

 

Now if you give us a long burning replacement like an oil lamp or, a carbide lamp like miners used to use, that would be cool.

 

Till then I will be shutting this off. There already is an ample amount of necessary things to do in this mod, adding "relight torches" to those daily chores just seems tedious.

 

It might be cool for some, just not me.

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It's funny that some of the choice explicitly mention tweaking tourch burnout in the config file, because I didn't even know you could do that. It probably would make the experience better if I tweaked it. I've seen a few comments that seem to mimick my feelinds towards them in the sense that it's only a hinderance with no better source to work towards. I feel like either way, the time for which a tourch stays lit should be longer by at least a day.

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I like that the torches go out because it makes you be selective with what you like up, not just put them everywhere. It does take caving to a new level though.

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I've been thinking about this issue and I think it stems from the way that people want to play the game. Often I've heard admin use this phrase "The way the game was meant to be played" and it seems to me like that is a dangerous statement. If I built a single small house that spanned 3 chunks and that was it then I'm sure I wouldn't mind torch burnout. The problem is that not everyone wants to play the game exactly the same. Personally I find it more enjoyable to build a town to scale, with different buildings serving different purposes and spacing them out over 15-20 chunks (at the minimum) with paths connecting houses. The RPG just feels good to me. If everything just went in a 5 floored basement then spawn protection would be more than sufficient. But since I move around so much it does shit all to keep creepers out of my houses. ESPECIALLY ON SMP. Often it is said that TFC is balanced for multiplayer but when I have time to get maaybbeee 2 hours in a night (I work 11 hours a day 6 days a week landscaping) there simply isn't enough time to do everything that needs to be done. By the time I log back in 6 months later I might as well have been gone for years. 

 

Another good example would be support beams. With the new placing mechanics they are certainly easier to use in mineshafts, but I don't always want them in my mines. I loved using them in 78 when I could place them more freely but now players who don't want to fit the mold are left high and dry.

 

Same with the torches. Some people are unhappy with the change because they want to play the game they way they find it most enjoyable and react negatively when they are forced out of their comfort zone.

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I like that the torches burn out but I don't have to deal with mobs.  I'll start out playing on normal or even hard but between my slowness at advancing and the few number of hours I have to actually play any given week, I quickly get tired of waiting for the night to pass and always end up switching to peaceful. It's funny, in regular Minecraft I get bored real fast on peaceful, but I actually prefer TFC that way.  :D

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I'm going to add to my previous comment. As I've been playing for a bit longer now.

 

I actually like going back to a mine I've not been to for a while and lighting it up! Torch, click, torch , click.... It feel like I'm coming back and literally turning the lights on.

 

But I do miss a permanent light at home, so I have ugly pumpkins dotted around my house and garden.

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  I like this feature, when i explore a cave and come back a week later I hate the fact that it looks like time has no progressed.  You should add something like a lamp that burns longer and can be refilled, with the update for alcohol it could be used for fuel?  Crafting could be some brass plates, Jute fibre for a wick and fill it with alcohol.  Maybe be able to turn it on/off by right clicking to decrease light levels in food areas.  Also torches need some sort of "sign" that they are about to burn out, maybe more particles, they dim, or change to a darker colour to represent burnt out wood.Don't listen to the people who complain about this, if they don't like it there is a config option to turn it off, you can never make everyone happy if they are too lazy to modify the configs to their own style.

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The poll is missing the "I'm not even going to bother with the mod" option. Turning it off in the configs makes you play a very different game than the one everyone else is playing, so no thanks.

This is not an innovative feature, there are several mods that do this. Guess what, those mods have a very specific and limited audience, because this feature is very "not for everyone".

Now, TFC was already a very limited mod in the long term. After you get to the endgame steel, there's very little to do. Building cool stuff was the only real endgame at that point, and without convenient lighting that is not really feasible anymore. Smallscale uninspired architecture with minimal lighting is all you can accomplish.

I've also had a look at the other new features, and frankly, I'll pass on this version of the mod. For every feature that adds something interesting, there are several that make it too boring and tedious to play.

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Is that pure sarcasm? I don't really get it ...

I apolagise, when i thoght of what to type, it sounded great, untill i started typing, the ideas i wanted to transmit: i enjoy this feacture, the time actualy seems to pass, not hard just annoying sometimes, and that i am happy that this feacture was added :D

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I use torches when exploring and mining and I love that they go out. On the server I play on I have now acquired over 11 stacks of pumpkins which I strategically hide aound my homes and fenced in gardens. Creeper proofing my builds is all I care about. After that's done I like the burnout.

I understand that you as developers have a vision for what you have made. In your mind you have envisioned how it was meant to be played. Myself an others really love playing the game, but some of us just prefer to play it a slightly different way. I hope that you accomodate the people that just want their house lit up all the time (without needing to mess with default config) as you go forward adding new content. Minecraft started as a game totally dedicated to creativity building and I can't let go of that fundamental source of enjoyment.

I'm content with my pumpkins for now and I remain anxious but hopeful to see what's next for builders.

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I have played with default configs but I will turn it off until we have an alternative. I would like to suggest implementing a gas lighting system? We could ferment coal in a barrel and connect said barrel to pipe blocks that could feed wall lamps. That would make extinguishable torches that need to be refilled periodically, without the tedium of having to light them up one by one. I'll try whipping something up myself, but I'm really doubtful I'll be able to do something decent.

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Pumpkin forest (the new torch forest) he he he 

 

Posted Image

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Are redstone torches useful for lighting/permanent?

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If you like to build an evil lair, sure

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I feel they should go out more randomly instead of looking like a giant wind comes and blows them all out

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we have so many jack o lanterns on my server, only new comers use torches for a short while. Its to the point where i put carved stone around them to make them pretty.

 

(we have a couple of people make some 5k runs out and back and they have brought back 1k+ so far. its pretty ridiculous.)

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(we have a couple of people make some 5k runs out and back and they have brought back 1k+ so far. its pretty ridiculous.)

 

:3 Guilty as charged.

To clarify, it was 9k south and 6k east, and I only got 612.

I plan to continue to make the inside of my houses entirely spawn-proof via hidden lights and chiseling dark blocks. Pumpkins contained in a thin layer of white stone on a black post will soon become the street lamps that keep our gardens safe. 

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:3 Guilty as charged.

To clarify, it was 9k south and 6k east, and I only got 612.

I plan to continue to make the inside of my houses entirely spawn-proof via hidden lights and chiseling dark blocks. Pumpkins contained in a thin layer of white stone on a black post will soon become the street lamps that keep our gardens safe. 

---

i wonder at what point too many chiseled blocks will crash people out.

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---

i wonder at what point too many chiseled blocks will crash people out.

 

As long as you are using slab or stair mode, and not detailed mode, you can have as many chiseled blocks as you please.

 

Also, have you considered changing your theme in the bottom left corner to the default TFCraft so that quotes are more obviously defined?

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