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Two

Some observations of how people play

64 posts in this topic

I've started playing on a server recently and noticed that people do a few things which are probably not intended. Some observations:

- Torches are widely unused in buldings, people light everything with pumpkins.

- As not eating has no fatal consequences, people just don't eat at all.

- Smooth stones are avoided while building because they take too long to break.

- No one uses support beams. Ceilings are either smoothed or people place non-falling blocks like planks.

If you noticed anything unexpected as well, please feel free to add.

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I have been playing single player and I can say I don't eat, and i dont use smoothed blocks for the reasons you stated, but I do use torches instead of pumpkins because lighting them is trivial and they look nice, and I've used 10x as many support beams as i ever used in 78, the new behavior is awesome imo. I also use a lot less thatch now that its not a magic wall. i use dirt charcoal pits instead of rooms now as well

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I dont use pumpkins just because i dont like they way they look. i still eat even though you really dont have to right now. i havent used support beams just because im afraid to go mining ;)

 

As for charcoal, i actually figured out a way to keep the old way of making a room, just have to get creative with sand instead of a doorway ;)  (also helps having glass window to see if its done)

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I have no intentions to use pumpkins for the same reasons mentioned before, they look dumb. I eat off an on, if my nutirition is up I will try to maintain it for as long as i can but when it gets low i stop eating and just live with 50hp. I also made a suicide room for when i need to go on adventures. As for the thatch i dont like even using it for its intended roofing purpose because spiders can just clim up and drop in on you.

 

Other than that, the main different thing im doing is spending lots more time with food preservation.

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ohh wow! i didnt even think about spiders going through a thatch roof!

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1) I use pumpkin lanterns because it's the only permanent light source at the moment. If they are removed, I will edit the config file to bring back permanent torches. A texture pack makes the pumpkins look less dumb for me.

 

2) I never use support beams. They don't work realistically enough for me. I rather just let cave ins happen and see new ore exposed (despite the potential loss of some). Cave ins don't hurt the player too much in most cases.

 

3) Planks make up the floors and ceilings of my builds. Walls can be logs mixed in with stone bricks. I agree a thatch roof is not really ideal as a transparent (as in walk thru) block. Clay blocks are an alternative.

 

4) So far i dont understand the new cooking / meals mechanic in b79. 

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2) I never use support beams. They don't work realistically enough for me. I rather just let cave ins happen and see new ore exposed (despite the potential loss of some). Cave ins don't hurt the player too much in most cases.

 

I'd say a 70% death rate from cave-in will drastically change your assement..

However, every cave in I've had has destroyed every single support beam so in that respect they are pretty much useless.

When starting out, they also don't help as you want to mine as minimal amount of rock as possible (strangley if you lock at medieval tin/copper/slate/iron/coal mines they had the same idea but the current mechanism insists on you having to create 5x4 tunnels to get them to work at all...

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I do not use the beams, they are not reliable enough, and collapses all the time.I use "/time set day" for the night, because sheep refuses to spawn on my computer, and I'm tired of doing nothing at night.Sometimes, I spend "gamemode 1" temporarily :To get my stuff in the middle of the black skeleton in armor.And I am ashamed.( I do not understand why a shovel will disappear in nature, under the pretext that she is on the ground )

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I use "/time set day" for the night, because sheep refuses to spawn on my computer, and I'm tired of doing nothing at night. 

 

As far as I remember, using that command had always been a source of problem as it reset the date, so many things can bug. You should just cheat yourself a bed one instead of cheating the time every day.

 

I always eat ingame as you should die for not eating. If you don't die, then it's a bug and it should be reported.

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First of all, it would appear that the "vocal minority" is out in force on this thread which is to be expected I guess....

 

As for my opinion, I am really enjoying the new build. I love the change to the thatch and I actually just ended up making a little log hut for the first night. This change helps to take away a bit of the freedom players had at the very start, which I think is a very good change for gameplay. Now you have to set up and get established a little earlier before you can travel too far in your first few days. As for the torches, I can admit that I use jack-o-lanterns in my small base just because I am paranoid (but only two). Whenever I am out caving/mining or in temporary bases I don't hesitate to use torches. I really enjoyed the change to crafting wool as well. It really is just so much more believable. I wasn't able to just go sheer the first two sheep I saw and have a bed, it actually took me some time where I had to find some grain and raise the familiarity levels of some sheep, which I think is a good change as well. As far as not having a bed, it really was not a problem after the first few days as spawn protection kicked in and I was able to work outside in my copper quarry through the night without being attacked by anything. On that note, I would like to see beds nerfed and made more believable, I hope that is in the future! As for support beams, I tried to dig a 2x1 tunnel without one and quickly was caved in on. Not very lethal, but a real pain to remove the cobblestone. I then started digging the tunnel in such a way that I had the 2x1 tunnel with a "horizontal" support beam running adjacent to it and a "vertical" beam every 5 blocks or so and had no cave-ins.  When mining out an ore, I also use the support beam liberally as the cost to make them (really inexpensive) is much less than the benefit of preventing cave-ins. Again cave-ins should be made much more lethal rather than just kind of annoying (what they are at the moment). 

 

There is one big thing I have been slightly unsure of so far, which would be the hunger system. I know it was a huge overhaul and probably needs some tweaking. I am finding it very difficult to keep my nutrition levels up despite eating salads and sandwiches with everything but dairy. I still eat when I can to try to keep my nutrition up, but it seems like a losing battle. Also, after eating sandwiches my hunger seems to last for a very long time. This is good in one aspect, but may be contributing toward my nutrition problem. I don't see why people would skip eating, its still very easy to get food and the new decay hotkey (while a bit buggy) make having food easier than ever.

 

Ultimately I believe I am playing the mod like it was intended and having an amazing experience.

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I truly never figured out to use the support beams the way do described xi... It is much better than my layout, however it is still that you need a vertical support every 4 blocks. If my calculations are correct that should be like 1.5 support beams needed per block of your tunnel. Anyway - going to try out your method in the next mine i dig. Does anyone know if i can increase the radius of the supported zone in the config files?

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You can get away with vertical supports every 8 blocks by temporarily placing supports at the 4th block and removing them when the next support is in place, since supports give support 4 blocks in each direction

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First of all, it would appear that the "vocal minority" is out in force on this thread which is to be expected I guess....

 

As for my opinion, I am really enjoying the new build. I love the change to the thatch and I actually just ended up making a little log hut for the first night. This change helps to take away a bit of the freedom players had at the very start, which I think is a very good change for gameplay. Now you have to set up and get established a little earlier before you can travel too far in your first few days. As for the torches, I can admit that I use jack-o-lanterns in my small base just because I am paranoid (but only two). Whenever I am out caving/mining or in temporary bases I don't hesitate to use torches. I really enjoyed the change to crafting wool as well. It really is just so much more believable. I wasn't able to just go sheer the first two sheep I saw and have a bed, it actually took me some time where I had to find some grain and raise the familiarity levels of some sheep, which I think is a good change as well. As far as not having a bed, it really was not a problem after the first few days as spawn protection kicked in and I was able to work outside in my copper quarry through the night without being attacked by anything. On that note, I would like to see beds nerfed and made more believable, I hope that is in the future! As for support beams, I tried to dig a 2x1 tunnel without one and quickly was caved in on. Not very lethal, but a real pain to remove the cobblestone. I then started digging the tunnel in such a way that I had the 2x1 tunnel with a "horizontal" support beam running adjacent to it and a "vertical" beam every 5 blocks or so and had no cave-ins.  When mining out an ore, I also use the support beam liberally as the cost to make them (really inexpensive) is much less than the benefit of preventing cave-ins. Again cave-ins should be made much more lethal rather than just kind of annoying (what they are at the moment). 

 

There is one big thing I have been slightly unsure of so far, which would be the hunger system. I know it was a huge overhaul and probably needs some tweaking. I am finding it very difficult to keep my nutrition levels up despite eating salads and sandwiches with everything but dairy. I still eat when I can to try to keep my nutrition up, but it seems like a losing battle. Also, after eating sandwiches my hunger seems to last for a very long time. This is good in one aspect, but may be contributing toward my nutrition problem. I don't see why people would skip eating, its still very easy to get food and the new decay hotkey (while a bit buggy) make having food easier than ever.

 

Ultimately I believe I am playing the mod like it was intended and having an amazing experience.

 

Thank you so much for this post. As for the nutrition issue that you were noticing, this was indeed a bug. In 79.6, sandwiches and salads actually were giving a negative net gain in nutrition from eating them, so the only way to stay "healthy" was to eat only raw ingredients. We've fixed this for .7, so I hope you see an improvement of this flaw after updating.

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Just so there is no misunderstanding: the purpose of this thread is to gather some feedback for the devs, nothing else.

Sometimes you design a good idea, implement it well, and then still everyone is doing it differently. There are always many reasons, like bugs preventing people from playing properly, people simply not finding the idea as good as you (the developer) do, but maybe you can upgrade it so people enjoy it more, sometimes players just don't understand the feature and it might need to be simplified or explained better, and sometimes a feature just doesn't turn out as planned and might get removed.

As already mentioned: my view is very limited. A server with 10 players is hardly a solid base for any statistic or a complete change of plans, but it is feedback. And your views are adding to the picture. They are neither better or worse than anyone else's view, because it's your way of playing the game, and if it suits you, then no one can argue with that. So by all means: please continue the feedback. =)

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I always try to keep my nutrition up. One time I forgot to pause it when I stepped away and came back to having max 50 health. Even taking a small amount of fall damage is enough to kill you there. I also tend to go out and fight at night a lot though. 

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I note that the best fishing method is to throw the line and your feet, hop in the water, and reel in the fish when it bites.

I wish you caught bigger fish when you throw the line further or something. I mean, Fishing by more or less spamming the right-click button isn't fun, you know?

 

Also, the torch burning out can get a little annoying when you start mining or covering long distances, or making big farms/buildings.

Well, I usually build small and don't really mine, making do with copper and stone tools, but when I do go caving or whatnot, well, lets just say I do a lot less of it now than I used to. Not that I care, much but... I think other people might.

 

Also, animals eat so much grain to familiarize. So... much.... grain...

 

Oh, and, 42 wool yarn or 72 spider silk to make one bed. Don't you think that's a bit too much? I mean, it used to take 12 wool yarn before... over three times as much yarn needed....

 

And I think the loom is much too annoying to use I mean, To make one wool cloth, I need to sit there doing nothing but pressing down the right mouse button, and it seems so much of a bother for something so trivial.

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Also, animals eat so much grain to familiarize. So... much.... grain...

 

I'm guessing that you are overfeeding your animals. 1 feeding of 5oz a grain every day is all they need. So 2 animals, for 5 days, at 5oz each comes out to only 50 oz of grain, and they'll likely be familiar enough to feed them each another 5oz to breed.

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Oh. I just fed them till I couldn't feed them anymore. It's sorta hard to tell what animal I fed and what I didn't feed.

I'm looking forward to being able to make glass bottles and paper so I can name the animals and actually tell them apart and finally drink my sake(It's near 3 in-game years old now)

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Oh. I just fed them till I couldn't feed them anymore. It's sorta hard to tell what animal I fed and what I didn't feed.

I'm looking forward to being able to make glass bottles and paper so I can name the animals and actually tell them apart and finally drink my sake(It's near 3 in-game years old now)

 

79.7 has been released for 2 days now that fixed both of those... not sure what you are waiting for.

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I see people not using beams.

I use beams a lot, they work perfectly.  You just need to know how to use them.

The wiki page has been updated.

They basically support up to 4 blocks away only, and the block height above the beam and up to 2 levels below.

 

For mining into rock, Ill dig straight down, put up a beam where I want to dig into it, then put a solid block on top like wood.

Voila, you can now dig into the rock perfectly safe.

 

I will also add that I again upped cave ins from the default 1 in 10 chance, down to 1 in 2 (50% every block you mine..!)

Even with that, I see 0 cave ins using beams correctly.

 

 

Relating to the other points..

 

I have 3 pumpkins inside my house, and 2 just outside (all I've found so far) - I'd use more in a few more important spots when I find some more.

 

I eat just fine since I found lots of Rye and Wheat seeds.

Since the .7 update, food behaves strangely.. Eating a couple of sandwiches filled all but my protein health bars from almost nothing to full - Even though they only contained bread and veg.

 

I'm struggling with keeping mobs out of my fenced off complex.

Having 50HP was REALLY painful since skeletons line my base fence at night and it's 10 mins run from the spawn point through thick jungle.  I have yet to find sheep.

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Oh, and, 42 wool yarn or 72 spider silk to make one bed. Don't you think that's a bit too much? I mean, it used to take 12 wool yarn before... over three times as much yarn needed....

I found 15 spider silk over the time of a single game year, since spiders don't drop string often... I can't even make a single piece of cloth yet.

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79.7 has been released for 2 days now that fixed both of those... not sure what you are waiting for.

I'm on 79.7. NEI shows no recipe for glass bottles and 3 glass makes vanilla ones which won't fill from a barrel. I've made vodka and the bottles won't fill from it. Haven't figured out how to make the TFC ones. On a side note, is vodka supposed to able to make vinegar or is it only a certain alchohol? because my vodka barrel has been sealed for days and is still vodka. The barrel also lists no output when I seal it.

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I'm on 79.7. NEI shows no recipe for glass bottles and 3 glass makes vanilla ones which won't fill from a barrel. I've made vodka and the bottles won't fill from it. Haven't figured out how to make the TFC ones. On a side note, is vodka supposed to able to make vinegar or is it only a certain alchohol? because my vodka barrel has been sealed for days and is still vodka. The barrel also lists no output when I seal it.

 

NEI shows the recipe working just fine for me. Make sure you are looking at the recipe for the item called "Empty Glass Bottle." If it has the size and weight tooltip on it, then it is the correct item. If it's just called "Glass Bottle", then it is the vanilla item.

 

I can confirm that using 3 glass blocks in 79.7 gives the item called "Empty Glass Bottle" which is the TFC item.

 

You have to put your barrel in out mode in order to take the alcohol out. Click the arrow on the UI to switch modes.

 

You can make vinegar from any type of alcohol. You just need to seal a large enough piece of fruit inside of the alcohol barrel for it to work.

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I have loved the vast majority of the additions made in B79, some of my favorites include

-Transparancy to player skills (We are finding this to be an awesome change in the town we are starting on a new server, individual players actually feel valuable)

-Planted crops leaving seeds on the ground in they get too cold (such a great idea for SMP farms)

-Fast-mining placed logs (Oh baby! <3 )

-The loom (sensible cloth in minecraft... FINALLY)

-Placing multiple support beams (I like the new ones but at the same time I miss the old ones, more on that later)

-Barrels and large vessels (awesome awesome awesome versatility)

-The adorable little fishies @.@ <3

-The new charcoal pile mechanic (gotta be careful not to die on top a log pile with torches in your inv) :P

-CRUCIBLES ACCEPTING STACKS (WOOHOO!)

-All the variety of flavors and preservation (tons of fun and adds so much to gameplay)

-Badass world gen

-A bigger challenge mining without support beams (I still don't use em and it's certainly more exciting)

-Animal/player relationship building

 

These are really big additions and they are all fantastic, loved starting off fresh and working my way around new obstacles like animal familiarity and no easy beds. All in all I'm finding B79 to be a vast improvement over 78, much more survival-ish and still loads of fun.

 

Now there are a few things that I think would make the game just that much better if they were tweaked a bit

-Please re-add a recipe for the old support beam texture, as a builder having both textures at my disposal would be fantastic

-Please allow us to place beams without needing both ends to connect to a vertical one (maybe make these beams not support blocks but for aesthetic reasons and versatility it would be great to bring that back, maybe differentiate between old and new horizontal beam placement using shift vs no-shift clicking)

-Making bricks and smooth stone take longer to mine does absolutely nothing to protect against other players in SMP, if I wanted to steal, I would wait til they log off or leave home. It doesn't matter if a block takes 5 more seconds to mine if I have 8 hours to break it. The increased mining times is really hurting survival building.

-Maybe make the quality of gems dependant on prospecting skill? (Think about it like this: a noob wouldn't see it and would smash it when mining the stone/ore. A pro would immediately notice the gem and carefully mine it out, leading to more gems of higher quality and less damaged ones)

-Please put lanterns (or something like that) at the top of the to-do list. I don't trust spawn protection on SMP and so like me, many people resort to spamming pumpkins to protect our builds (sad but true)

 

Nothing really big except lanterns but I feel these additions and tweaks would be the cherry on top the pie that is build 79.

 

 

EDIT: I just harvested our towns first crop of roughly 500 plants and THANK YOU SO MUCH for the hot keys to combine foods. So. Awesome.

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79.7 has been released for 2 days now that fixed both of those... not sure what you are waiting for.

.... I only realized that a update was released when I couldn't get on the server.

Well, can you blame me for not checking for updates every other day?

 

Also, I find that all my food comes out ridiculously sweet and savory.

Seriously, what effects the flavors of ingredients?

I also can't understand how the flavors add up. A not+not+not+not makes ridiculously for one flavor, while not+not+not+not makes not for another flavor. 

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