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TomatoThief

Alternate Fix for Chiseling Ceilings

22 posts in this topic

Regarding the prohibition of chiseling ceiling blocks topped with two blocks of natural stone:

 

Event: Bottom of natural stone block is being chiseled

Check: Is target block supported by support beams?

  • Yes = Block is chiseled and provides support as normal
  • No = Cave-in triggered

Thus supports are still required, but can be treated as temporary if desired until overhead stones are "secured" via chiseling.

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The whole point of the change was because we wanted to remove almost all instances of using chiseled blocks for support. They are not supposed to be used in that way as it is not believable, and was considered an exploit by the TFC devs.

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The whole point of the change was because we wanted to remove almost all instances of using chiseled blocks for support. They are not supposed to be used in that way as it is not believable, and was considered an exploit by the TFC devs.

 

As of writing this I have tweaked my mining technique and am once again able to safely mine an entire ore vein with ~0.1% risk of taking damage from cave ins. Perhaps you should consider that short of removing half the mechanics in your game, nothing will stop people from finding ways to use them together to get around your idea of how the game should be played. I love using support beams when I want what I'm digging out to look nice, but I still don't have to use them when digging for ores and stone.

 

Is it really so awful that we don't all want to use our logs for beams? I prefer to save mine for buildings that I will see and use all the time. Why must I repeatedly have my fingers slapped for wanting to focus on aesthetics and creativity? If you really want to make it a necessity, take the b79.9 restriction off the chisel and double the chance of cave-ins yet again. Honestly that would hurt builders less and be much harder for players like me to overcome. (My workaround is entirely dependent on being able to mine a few stones in a row without a cave in, allowing me to secure a new location to mine from while remaining safe from the cobble. Also, more cave ins = more destroyed ore blocks. I think you are using the wrong solution for your perceived problem.)

 

Perhaps this should have a separate thread in the suggestions (tell me if you want me to do that) but I think it would be really cool if different stone types had different cave in chances/propagation. Basalt should take a lot more of a beating than clay stone before it collapses, and yet currently they all go at the same rate. This is totally in opposition to the fact that different stones give tools with differing durability. 

 

My Food & Wine Cellar is under dirt and is chalk full of beams, and  I love it... because I consider it a "build" and not a temporary resource mine.

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Perhaps this should have a separate thread in the suggestions (tell me if you want me to do that) but I think it would be really cool if different stone types had different cave in chances/propagation. Basalt should take a lot more of a beating than clay stone before it collapses, and yet currently they all go at the same rate.

 

This is actually already in place. Sedimentary stones have a much higher chance of caving in than igneous ones do.

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Oh cool, must not have noticed. In all seriousness I think you should consider my alternate solution, it would be more effective at tackling the real problem (as you see it) and be less cumbersome for building.

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You can't chisel natural rocks from below anyway? Only the sides and top.

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Personally, I constantly trigger caveins to make more ore appear. I've never taken a single point of damage in like 20 caveins. Really not dangerous at all. Sure, every once in a while half the mountain collapses, but never on top of me it seems.

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Once you start mining deep underground you'll change your mind.  :D

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This is actually already in place. Sedimentary stones have a much higher chance of caving in than igneous ones do.

 

Interestingly the config file contains only a single option for setting 1 in X chance of triggering a cave-in. So that number is not an absolute value but only a coefficient further modiffied by rock type?

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Once you start mining deep underground you'll change your mind.  :D

I mine down in the middle of the third rock layer. Can't really get lower than that, unless I'm mining bedrock :D

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Interestingly the config file contains only a single option for setting 1 in X chance of triggering a cave-in. So that number is not an absolute value but only a coefficient further modiffied by rock type?

 

Correct. The config option is the value that is used for the stone types that are the least likely to collapse. We then further modify that value so cave ins are more common for sedimentary stone.

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IMHO, I think that the view that support beams are an absolute necessity and that not using them represents an exploit is a bit laughable. I like the cave in mechanics, but it seems to me, what the devs are striving for here isnt a way to achieve believeability, its to make support beams a requirement for mining which is sorta bunk. I dont see any reason why a person couldn't mine a 2x1 channel for quite a ways without using support beams. Ive seen plenty of photos of ancient mine shafts / subterranean dwellings which were evidently constructed without support beams. Clearly if you want to clear out a freaking dining hall or something underground... you should definitely need to support that roof, but a 2x1 tunnel caving in constantly? Is TFC stone made of tissue paper? Even some of the more modern mines were constructed in this way. Just a quick google image search will demonstrate that. I dont know a good solution to sorta meet half way between people with me and maga's view, and the devs, I surely think that all this obsession over how best to make it impossible to mine without support beams is definitely not a good thing. Especially that its starting to come at the cost of restricing TFC features. I agree with maga that I feel like im being punished because I didnt pay enough into the log eating machine that the devs believe mining should be....

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QED

 

 

Also, I just think it isn't conducive to building. I like my underground bases as much as the next guy, and I'd like to be able to get rid of the supports later- sure, I'm happy with having to use them until I'm finished digging, but afterwards? I'm not a big fan.

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Also, I just think it isn't conducive to building. I like my underground bases as much as the next guy, and I'd like to be able to get rid of the supports later- sure, I'm happy with having to use them until I'm finished digging, but afterwards? I'm not a big fan.

 

There's nothing stopping you from removing the supports after you are done digging. The only time that there is a risk of a cave in is when you mine a raw stone block. If you are done mining, you can take the supports down. You'll just have to pop a few back up the next time you want to dig out the wall or something.

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There's nothing stopping you from removing the supports after you are done digging. The only time that there is a risk of a cave in is when you mine a raw stone block. If you are done mining, you can take the supports down. You'll just have to pop a few back up the next time you want to dig out the wall or something.

So a creeper can come and demolish it all and cause a catastrophic cave-in because your torches burned out and you thought it would look prettier if you removed your support beams :P

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So a creeper can come and demolish it all and cause a catastrophic cave-in because your torches burned out and you thought it would look prettier if you removed your support beams :P

 

I see nothing wrong with this actually. >.> Creepers aren't even that scary anymore imo. If you have to worry about an explosion from one caving in your entire base, that's a pretty awesome threat imo. :P

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Heartless and proud of it... I like that :)

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Well, maybe it's just me and MDub that want to play the game differently. Maybe everyone else and their pink flamingos look at this game and see it exactly as the devs want it to be seen. Maybe talking about my stance and opinion on beams and lighting doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of being taken seriously. Maybe it'll come around but just take a year or two but I really don't know yet, that's why I say maybe. However I'm not the type of person to sit down, shut up, accept things I don't like and pretend not to care. The way I see it, you don't lose until you give up. Kitty might like creepers blowing up her stuff once in a while but I doubt she invests as much into her builds. The way I look at creepers, they are a threat to overcome completely. If that's tough to do, great, but if the goal is to make obstacles insurmountable then that's not awesome at all... imo.

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If you line the ceiling of your underground build with stone bricks(or whatever), and remove the supports, I don't think there will be cave-ins any more. Is this fact? If so, creepers can be overcome completely. Just line your ceilings. If you're making a 'build', surely you're already putting a lot of work into it, so it won't just be a raw stone hole; just do a little extra work to make it safe.

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Maga, Creepers can be controlled if you use /gamerule mobGriefing false, using this means they make no damage to your structures or the surrounding world.

 

Look up "gamerule" at http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Commands

 

I always use it on servers to stop player using creepers to grief.

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Maga, Creepers can be controlled if you use /gamerule mobGriefing false, using this means they make no damage to your structures or the surrounding world.

 

Look up "gamerule" at http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Commands

 

I always use it on servers to stop player using creepers to grief.

 

I'm aware this can be done. But personally I absolutely hate touching the configurations. If I change that to make the game easier without any work, then why not just turn off hostile spawning... why not just spawn in graphite, why not just go in creative and fly around the map. My ADD and low self control makes messing with configs a slippery slope to basic cheating. This is why I prefer SMP where even if I'm tempted to cheat I can't... and I end up enjoying the game a lot more.

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There comes a point in time where we must accept that mods aren't catered to one specific person. If they design the mod to make you happy, they make other people unhappy. Personally, I'd find it super weird if a creeper blew up in a cave with no supports and didn't bring the house down. If you want the mod to behave differently than the basic package, you'll have to make the modifications yourself. The issue is that you want to cheat the game, but not have to do it yourself because you feel like you'd slide down the slippery slope. Well, if you want that buffer of the developers making that decision for you, you'll have to accept it when they make a decision you don't like. If you want this feature, you'll have to cheat. And if you feel like it, turn off hostile spawning and spawn in graphite. Do whatever makes the game more enjoyable for you.

 

If you REALLY want the change without having to cheat to get it, just ask somebody else to do it for you. I'm sure you can find somebody who's willing to make the modifications to your world without telling you how they did it.

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