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SouthpawHare

Ranged weapons vs. Skeletons

56 posts in this topic

I have tried things in the past, but I've never seen a noticable improvement.  I don't know how good optimization stuff is today, and am not using anything currently.

Assuming you use a windows-based OS, ditch it and switch to a linux distrobution. Or at the very least, dual boot something easy like Debian or Ubuntu. I personally have had a massive performance increase since I started playing Minecraft on my Debian testing instead of windows 7, and I'm sure others would too if they actually tried out my suggestion.As for the whole skelleton thing, I really don't mind them being almost unapproachable until midgame. Learning to choose your battles and sneaking around tough opponents is a skill you do need to improve if you want to have a less shitty stone age.

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I don't know what you guys think of this, but if the blunt tipped arrows from the archery suggestion are added then those could be used. My opinion is that balancing skeletons should not really be considered too much until they are moved underground, as the balance would probably have to be redoneall over again.

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Personally, I find using cover, pitfalls, and more allows me to safely dispatch most, if not all mobs once I hit the metal age.

 

However, I would like a sling or another ranged weapon that deals a non-piercing damage, mainly because feathers are not the easiest things to find, and I would like more diverse weapons. But really, until combat is more fleshed out, I see little to no reasons to add more weapons.

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mainly because feathers are not the easiest things to find, and I would like more diverse weapons. 

 

Are you killing the feather-bearing animals? If you are, don't do that! You can shift-right click any bird if it has been fed within 24 hours to pluck a feather from it, dealing only a slight bit of damage to the animal which it will quickly regenerate.

 

Feathers are pretty much infinite once you find a single pheasant or chicken and take it home with you.

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Wow.... just wow.

For so long, I was like, hey pheasant, die! Because I couldn't breed them...

Will keep that in mind the next time I find a bird.

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Here's an idea: make Slings a weapon, as has been recommended before.

 

Useless against Zombies, deal actual damage to skeletons, deal mild Knockback, have a golf-like swing meter (or a launch meter like your average launch game; Knightmare Tower, Buffalo Bison, Kick the Critter etc) to determine amount of damage. Takes a second to spin up like the bow takes three seconds to charge, made from leather.

 

Oh yeah, and it has two types of ammo: Stone Sling Bullets (3x3 knapped) and Lead Sling Bullets (same mold shape.) Bam, there's a use for Galena too. Man, am I good or what?

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Slings are one of the most underrated of all weapons, they could throw a decent rock faster and for a longer distance than a bow could shoot and arrow. There were many italian tribes which used lead bullets for projectiles

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I'm not denying that in real life slings are a good weapon. I'm saying that if a sling in TFC was as awesome as they are in real life, they would be horribly OP and break the balance of early game combat.

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then wreck the accuracy of the slings. they are not accurate in real life, and shouldn't be in tfc either.

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Much easier said than done.

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Also, I'm not sure I would like making a sling and tons of shots to kill that skeleton, then end up running around like a idiot dodging arrows while slinging lead shots everywhere and hitting everything but the skeleton.

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I'm on the side against this, it doesn't make sense to me.  I won't deny the fact that if you manage to shoot (bow/crossbow/sling etc) and hit a skeleton (within a fantasy world) that it may cause damage.  But how much damage?  At most there will be a hole in the bone with some radiating cracks maybe a fracture and at the least a small nick or chip.  Is the skeleton going to care about a hole or some nicks?  I'd think no, it's undead. 

 

To me it seems like it would require a lot more effort to kill a skeleton at range (ammo needed to cause enough damage) then to run up to it and crush it into tiny bit with a few strikes from a heavy metal mace.  Which is exactly what TFC currently does.

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Well, depends. I think a skeleton is going to care very much about a hole in it's spine, or a fracture in it's pelvis.

Also, this thing we're talking about, it's 100% bone. Sure, nicks, chips, missing ribs and cracked skulls won't damage it, but I think damage to the spine will be pretty bad, and damage to the arms or legs will effectively cripple it. Plus, per rules of creatures with heads, crushing it's skull should kill it, and I'm pretty sure a high-velocity stone will be able to shatter a skull.

 

True, bashing it with something big and heavy will probably be the best way to take care of it, but we should be able to hurt it a bit from a distance, shouldn't we?

I mean, for example, if your buddy is running from a hoard of monsters, and you're say, on the wall of your castle, you're able to give your buddy cover, killing the mobs with arrows. However, if your buddy is being chased by skeletons, not only does he have to dodge projectiles, which are harder to dodge then solid blows, you are also left with only two, not very good choices.

Rush out to save your buddy, and risk death, or just sit and pray. Both are not exactly very nice prospects.

We should be, at the very least, able to give cover to our buddies while they fight one of the most deadliest mobs in the game.

 

Besides, going by that logic, would a zombie care about a hole in it's stomach(or anywhere else), ripped-out limbs, giant, gaping sword wounds, broken bones, being set on fire or really, any injury other then a crushed skull and smashed brain? No, probably not, it's undead.

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Keep in mind this conversation is very suggestive (*Fantasy/Monsters/Undead) which means no one is right, no one is wrong.

 

"1st Paragraph"

 

Maybe, it would depending on what is causing it to be animated in the first place.  Lets say an unknown magic, so now how much of the animation relies on the bones and their structure?  If none, then the skeleton is not going to care and you would have to do 'x' overall damage to take it down.  If it's bone structure does partially support the animation then what parts?  You say spine but I think this 'pretty bad' damage would be mostly done to the spinal cord (flesh) which a skeleton does not have so not necessarily a crippling injury.  I do agree that if the bone structure is some how supporting the animation taking out a knee/leg would seriously slow it down and maybe out right stop it. 

 

However within TFC I'm not sure targeted damage like that is possible and it is all very RNG. (Head/Torso/Legs/Feet) which I am fine with, it's more than what vanilla does with combat.

 

(("and I'm pretty sure a high-velocity stone will be able to shatter a skull."  I don't want to get to real but I don't think high velocity guarantees the bone will shatter in a big way or cause major damage to other nearby bones.))

 

"2nd Paragraph"

 

Eh' my buddy shouldn't be out there without a mace and if he is he can suffer Bwuhahahahahaha!

 

But for the sake of conversation, hitting a skeleton at range unless you are an expert marksman sounds very difficult.  The very nature of the skeletal structure allows for many holes and small narrow targets.  Also because of the rules of the game we also know this is happening at night so terrible light levels makes it even worse.  If my buddy is out at the forest line he better know how to dodge arrows.  If my buddy is nearing the gate I'll hold off any zombies and spiders (Mostly spiders cause holy crap) and he better still know how to dodge arrows.

 

Besides, going by that logic, would a zombie care about a hole in it's stomach(or anywhere else), ripped-out limbs, giant, gaping sword wounds, broken bones, being set on fire or really, any injury other then a crushed skull and smashed brain? No, probably not, it's undead.

 

I always hit zombies in the head, cause zombies.  This conversation is specific to range attacks verses skeletons so not going to venture outside of that but if you want apply the first part of my conversation to zombies, change bone to body and BAM! We also already know what part for critical damage. Brainzzzzzz

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Shooting a skeleton with an arrow is always a viable option to save your buddy. Sure it doesn't do any damage, but it does draw their aggro (autocorrect changed aggro to Afro :P ), even if briefly. I also use arrows on them to pull them.

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Okay, then: to balance the sling, give it both a direction AND power ticker.

 

Hit direction, hit power to make it go at the speed and in the direction you want.

 

Bam.

 

First stage: Spin up with Mouse1.

 

Second stage: Hold mouse2 to aim _|/_, then release.

 

Third stage: Release Mouse1 to fire.

 

Greater skill with the Sling slows the aim meter and increases the "high damage" range of the power meter.

 

I've got a friend who knows a decent bit of Java, he might be able to throw something together.

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of course should we have slings, there's no arguing that, but we need to agree on how to implement them, ammo would of course be knapped stones but you could also have the option to use lead balls ammo, the damage with stones as ammo would, of course be in the tier that every other stone weapon is at, but other than that it doesn't need to be particularly good and the lead balls would really only add damage and accuracy* at the expense of range and well everything else

 

*i doubt you'd be able to sling the projectiles fast enough for the accuracy to be measurable.

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The problem is how to balance the slings. In real life they are not very accurate, which is hard to implement into tfc, so basically that leaves us with an accurate, long range, high damage projectile that should do smashing damage.

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Actually in real life they were insanely accurate. They were developed independently in various cultures as a military weapon and there is numerous accounts and quantification of how amazingly accurate they were in skilled hands. The issue is not what was true in real life, but what is balanced for gameplay. It has been made clear that the devs do not want a ranged weapon that deals damage to skeletons as this would be far to OP not matter how you tier it.

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Cool. I thought they were basically medieval artillery, rather than accurate weapons.

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there was talk of shields and with the new back slot i thought maby they they could only be placed on the back and would have to be made of planks and have low durability so it will only help you for so long and also maby it could take up a deacent amount view space and would make you move slowly so the skellies can just move around you and you wouldn't see them

just a thought :rolleyes:

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You should work on your run on sentences and your grammar... Also spelling, phrasing, and organizing your writing. This wasn't the right section to post a reply about shields on. You should make a new thread/suggestion.

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You should work on your run on sentences and your grammar... Also spelling, phrasing, and organizing your writing. This wasn't the right section to post a reply about shields on. You should make a new thread/suggestion.

Shields were brought up earlier in this thread when the discussion shifted to ways that could be introduced for dealin with skeletons in Stone Age. There is some lea way given if it stays within theme of topic. As for other part. They were quite clear in what they were saying. There is no call for commenting on their writing ability. Everyone is welcome to contribute no matter what their writing abilities as long as they can be understood. In fact English is not the first or even second language of many of our members.
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I was not aware shields were brought up earlier, and I am perfectly aware not everybody's English is perfect, and people often have other first languages. As far as I am aware, I did not say quinted117 was not welcome to comment, and I was merely pointing this out.

But that's enough arguing, let's get back to tfc.

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