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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
aluc24

Including Ships and Boats Mod by cuchaz

58 posts in this topic

Hello everybody,

 

I searched for a bit, and couldn't find any topic relating to this. I missed it, please forgive me.

 

Terrafirmacraft makes survival much more difficult in Minecraft. Often you have to travel great distances to get specific items. And with current world generation, there are lots of oceans. I'm sure you'd agree that some kind of transportation would make sense, because except for simple boats and horses, there aren't a lot of ways to cover these great distances without frustration.

 

There is this mod that was recently released as a 1.0 version by Cuchaz, found here. It is still being developed, but it is stable enough to be used. It allows building of custom ships by turning them into entities, and allowing player to travel, as well as transport items in chests. It is planned to include mob transportation as well. This mod is now way ahead of any other custom ships mod (such as Archimedes).

 

I have tried this mod with Terrafirmacraft (latest version), and these two seem to work together very well. No crashes, no missing blocks after ship re-joins the world. But there are things to do if these two mods were to work together - custom blocks from Terrafirmacraft need to be added to config of Ships and Boats mod so their weight can be red correctly when calculating ship weight and buoyancy. Especially with chiselled blocks (so that chiseled wood block into a slab would weight 1/2 it's original weight, and so on).

Since this mod also recognizes vanilla wool blocks as sails, and calculates ship speed depending on number of these blocks, it would make sense to include placeable cloth blocks in Terrafirma, and configurate Cuchaz mod so it can recognize it as sails.

 

Also, recepies of Cuchaz mod is now based on vanilla blocks, so they need to be re-done with Terrafirma blocks.

 

All in all, I think there is not a lot of work to make these mods work together, since they already work somewhat. The benefits, I believe, would be great, as they would justify the size of Terrafirmacraft oceans, as well as the great spread of rare materials.

 

 

Please let me know what you think of this idea. And if I'm not the first to suggest this, then again, please forgive me!

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Hi!

Actually on our server (darkagecraft.com) we are working with the same idea atm but indeed there are some issues.

as far as the recipes go, the solution is easy. Look into minetweaker, a handy ptogram that allows you to change, remove or add recipes. In this way we allready have woolblocks on the server and the boatblocks can be crafted.

other issues like water converting to vanilla water and the crashes caused by tfc chests when you try to open them when the ship is assembled are a but harder. Last time i spoke to aleksey terzi (known from the decorations and merchants add-ons) was thinking about writing a plug-in to make it all work. Check our pages if you are interested.

i can only assume the tfc devs have enough work without introducing new mods to tfc, so i think our hopes will be with external coders.

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Hi!Actually on our server (darkagecraft.com) we are working with the same idea atm but indeed there are some issues.as far as the recipes go, the solution is easy. Look into minetweaker, a handy ptogram that allows you to change, remove or add recipes. In this way we allready have woolblocks on the server and the boatblocks can be crafted.other issues like water converting to vanilla water and the crashes caused by tfc chests when you try to open them when the ship is assembled are a but harder. Last time i spoke to aleksey terzi (known from the decorations and merchants add-ons) was thinking about writing a plug-in to make it all work. Check our pages if you are interested.i can only assume the tfc devs have enough work without introducing new mods to tfc, so i think our hopes will be with external coders.

 

I will check it out. Well, Cuchaz made it clear that he won't be working on compatibility with other mods, that's why I'm posting this idea here. Maybe someone from TFC developers could answer this topic?

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The devs work on TFC itself, not on building compatibility to other mods. TFC registers most things in the ore dictionary and try to make the mod compatible in general. Cuchaz has also added the necessary config tools to allow for compatibility. So the necessary steps have been taken on both sides to allow for compatibility.

There have been posts previously by Kitty which make clear that devs will not be working on cross mod dev. Especially since there are people in community who are capable or have already integrated it. The issues described are going to likely be need to be fixed by Cuchaz.

If someone has got the blocks registered in the config they are welcome to share this in the addons and application section.

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The devs work on TFC itself, not on building compatibility to other mods. TFC registers most things in the ore dictionary and try to make the mod compatible in general. Cuchaz has also added the necessary config tools to allow for compatibility. So the necessary steps have been taken on both sides to allow for compatibility.There have been posts previously by Kitty which make clear that devs will not be working on cross mod dev. Especially since there are people in community who are capable or have already integrated it. The issues described are going to likely be need to be fixed by Cuchaz.If someone has got the blocks registered in the config they are welcome to share this in the addons and application section.

 

I see. Thank you. I just thought that maybe this mod could be integrated as a part of TFC, like detailed blocks (I believe this idea was taken from an earlier mod).

 

If anybody has this config file, please let us know!

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I see. Thank you. I just thought that maybe this mod could be integrated as a part of TFC, like detailed blocks (I believe this idea was taken from an earlier mod).

 

If anybody has this config file, please let us know!

 

We do not, and have never integrated other mods. While we may have used a similar idea, we have always written our own system. The only exception to this would be for integrating addons that were written specifically for TFC. Compatibility is a two-way street. There is only so far that we can go before other mod devs have to walk the rest of the way so we can meet in the middle.

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We do not, and have never integrated other mods. While we may have used a similar idea, we have always written our own system. The only exception to this would be for integrating addons that were written specifically for TFC. Compatibility is a two-way street. There is only so far that we can go before other mod devs have to walk the rest of the way so we can meet in the middle.

 

That's understandable. So maybe TFC devs could take the idea from Cuchaz, maybe borrow some code, and re-do it in TFC? After all, as I've red in this forum, ship transportation is highly sought-after feature. Is this planned in the nearest future (or far future, at least)?

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What I think you don't quite understand is the respect and unspoken rules between developers. Taking Cuchaz's code and "borrowing" it to use in TFC generally speaking is a dick move. You always have to ask for permission before doing that, and understandably a lot of mod authors are going to respond to that request with "no".

 

It's no different than what you commonly see in music. If an artist takes a part of another artists song and uses it in their song, they usually get sued for copyright infringement. Code and mods have copyright too, and that must be respected.

 

We understand that water transportation is important, and we will take that into consideration for future versions.

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That seems quite bad form, even if he has licensed it such that this would be allowed.

I'm not sure what all the bugs are, but the two mentioned are basic issues unrelated to TFC. A work around to water issue may be possible by getting Cuchaz to allow replacement block to be specified in config. Then set it to salt water. This is open to exploits, but not on servers by player base.

Even with his blessing what would the value be when he has a new and functional mod that can be configured to work. Why reinvent the wheel?

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What I think you don't quite understand is the respect and unspoken rules between developers. Taking Cuchaz's code and "borrowing" it to use in TFC generally speaking is a dick move. You always have to ask for permission before doing that, and understandably a lot of mod authors are going to respond to that request with "no".

 

It's no different than what you commonly see in music. If an artist takes a part of another artists song and uses it in their song, they usually get sued for copyright infringement. Code and mods have copyright too, and that must be respected.

 

We understand that water transportation is important, and we will take that into consideration for future versions.

 

Believe me, I know this! I meant that this would be done with Cuchaz's permission, no other way. He's a good guy, I think he wouldn't be against this as long as you credit him.

 

That seems quite bad form, even if he has licensed it such that this would be allowed.I'm not sure what all the bugs are, but the two mentioned are basic issues unrelated to TFC. A work around to water issue may be possible by getting Cuchaz to allow replacement block to be specified in config. Then set it to salt water. This is open to exploits, but not on servers by player base.Even with his blessing what would the value be when he has a new and functional mod that can be configured to work. Why reinvent the wheel?

 

If these two mods can be made to work together, then of course, there is no need to re-do it.

 

You know what - tell me what TFC can do on it's own part towards this compatibility, and what would be required from Cuchaz. Just list the things he needs to make configuratable in his mod. I will take that list to him and see if he'd agree to help. 

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As far as what I read in this topic, the only thing that Cuchaz needs to do is include a config option for custom liquid blocks that the boats can sail on. Everything else regarding crafting recipes and vanilla blocks can be done with 3rd party mods like minetweaker.

 

Edit: Any crashes that are experienced, like the above mentioned crashing when opening a chest on a boat, must provide crash reports before we can see which mod has to handle fixing the problem.

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As far as what I read in this topic, the only thing that Cuchaz needs to do is include a config option for custom liquid blocks that the boats can sail on. Everything else regarding crafting recipes and vanilla blocks can be done with 3rd party mods like minetweaker.

 

Edit: Any crashes that are experienced, like the above mentioned crashing when opening a chest on a boat, must provide crash reports before we can see which mod has to handle fixing the problem.

 

All right, I'll add that to the list. Maybe someone else can tell what other things would be required from Cuchaz? Maybe someone has crash reports?

 

Btw, I doubt Cuchaz knows about chiseled block system in TFC. I don't understand how it works either. Does each chiseled block get turned into entity, or does each chiseled combination has it's own block ID? Because I'd need to tell Cuchaz how he can make his mod recognize those chiseled blocks and calculate their weight.

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They don't all have their own block ID. It's a system made with tile entities, and I strongly doubt there would be any way to implement an intricate weight system that is calculated based on how much of the block is missing.

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They don't all have their own block ID. It's a system made with tile entities, and I strongly doubt there would be any way to implement an intricate weight system that is calculated based on how much of the block is missing.

 

You sure about that? I'm not saying accurately, but if it could be made so that chiseled block tile entity gets an approximate volume (like 1/2, 1/4, up to 1/8 maybe) label, it could be recognized by Cuchaz mod.

 

If not, what would you suggest?

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It's a cross-mod issue. Cuchaz would need to write an API that TFC could then hook into in order to calculate the weight. It's not something that could be done from Cuchaz's end. Considering you said he's not all for mod compatibility, I strongly doubt he would write an API, which would be a fair amount of effort.

 

 

Without the API, you would just have to take an average weight value between all of the stones and woods (since chiseled blocks can be either) and use that weight to just say "all slabs are this weight" or "all stairs are that weight" etc.

 

So like, let's say all stone weighs 2, and wood weighs 1. There are 21 types of stone, in 4 variations (Raw, Smooth, Cobble, Brick) and 17 types of wood planks. So ((84 * 2) + 17)/101 results in an average weight of 1.83.

 

Then just take that and guess an average to say that all slab blocks will be half of that, no matter how much they've actually been slabbed. All chiseled blocks will be 1/4 of that, no matter how much they've actually been chiseled. All stairs will be 3/4 of that, no matter how much they've actually been "staired."

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It's a cross-mod issue. Cuchaz would need to write an API that TFC could then hook into in order to calculate the weight. It's not something that could be done from Cuchaz's end. Considering you said he's not all for mod compatibility, I strongly doubt he would write an API, which would be a fair amount of effort.

 

 

Without the API, you would just have to take an average weight value between all of the stones and woods (since chiseled blocks can be either) and use that weight to just say "all slabs are this weight" or "all stairs are that weight" etc.

 

So like, let's say all stone weighs 2, and wood weighs 1. There are 21 types of stone, in 4 variations (Raw, Smooth, Cobble, Brick) and 17 types of wood planks. So ((84 * 2) + 17)/101 results in an average weight of 1.83.

 

Then just take that and guess an average to say that all slab blocks will be half of that, no matter how much they've actually been slabbed. All chiseled blocks will be 1/4 of that, no matter how much they've actually been chiseled. All stairs will be 3/4 of that, no matter how much they've actually been "staired."

 

Cuchaz's mod has no problem to discern between stone and wood. In fact, any block with an ID can have unique weight assigned to it. But are you trying to say that chiseled block loses it's relation to material? (meaning that if you chisel a wooden and a stone block, it becomes same tile entity just with different texture) If so, is there no way to preserve material type to the tile entity? I guess that's why right now you have to use a pickaxe to remove chiseled block, even if it was made from originaly. I believe I red that this is to be fixed in future TFC updates. Maybe if this will be done by adding some label to chiseled block, then Cuchaz's mod can hook onto that label?

 

If slabbed, staired and chiseled blocks can be distinguished by Cuchaz mod without advanced API, then it would be good enough for a start.

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That's correct, and exactly why you have to break all chiseled blocks with a pickaxe, even if it was a plank block to start with. And no there is no current plan to fix it, because we don't know how.

 

Slab, Stairs and Detailed blocks already can be distinguished, because they are three separate block IDs. You just have to remember that every stair block has the stair block ID, and every slab block has the slab block ID, and every detailed block has the detailed block ID. Which of the three the block actually is entirely depends on the mode of the chisel that you used to create it, and not what the block actually looks like.

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That's correct, and exactly why you have to break all chiseled blocks with a pickaxe, even if it was a plank block to start with. And no there is no current plan to fix it, because we don't know how.

 

Slab, Stairs and Detailed blocks already can be distinguished, because they are three separate block IDs. You just have to remember that every stair block has the stair block ID, and every slab block has the slab block ID, and every detailed block has the detailed block ID. Which of the three the block actually is entirely depends on the mode of the chisel that you used to create it, and not what the block actually looks like.

 

I see. Well, that's a serious problem that needs to be fixed if these mods are to work together. I know too little of modding to be of any help. I suppose there is no way to tag along the ID of original block to this tile entity the same way as texture is taged? (sorry if that's stupid question)

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Not really.

 

I see. Well then, we have to make do with what we have. I'll suggest it to Cuchaz to add config for water. Is there anything else I should ask of him?

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I do believe he already has a config for water.

I remember someone talking to him on the TFC water issue, and showing him the config they had and Cuchaz gave a update that he said 'should fix the water issue'

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I do believe he already has a config for water.

I remember someone talking to him on the TFC water issue, and showing him the config they had and Cuchaz gave a update that he said 'should fix the water issue'

 

Interesting. Maybe you know how it all turned out in the end?

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You can config in water. The reason you crash when opening a chest on a boat is due to the interactive blocks being used. Ships mod only intercepts vanilla GUI/tile entity code. I asked him if he would add support for TFC, but he said that he would not, due to the amount of work it would take to add compatibility of this one feature for every mod. He did, however, say that he would one day make an API, at which point the TFC devs, if they wanted to, could add compatibility for ships mod. 

 

Here is the config for ships mod to make it work with TFC: http://pastebin.com/XfGrkCwb (I ask that you do not distribute this file, as I made it specifically for my pack, Technofirma)

As for stairs/slabs/detailed blocks, you just have to assume that they are all permeable, and that they are max-wait, otherwise the system can be easily exploitable.

 

Note, you will have to use a recipe mod to add a way to collect wool blocks, which are used for sails. and you must change the other block recipes to allow them to be craftable.

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Note, you will have to use a recipe mod to add a way to collect wool blocks, which are used for sails. and you must change the other block recipes to allow them to be craftable.

 

Or you can set woolRecipes to true in TFCcrafting.cfg.

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You can config in water. The reason you crash when opening a chest on a boat is due to the interactive blocks being used. Ships mod only intercepts vanilla GUI/tile entity code. I asked him if he would add support for TFC, but he said that he would not, due to the amount of work it would take to add compatibility of this one feature for every mod. He did, however, say that he would one day make an API, at which point the TFC devs, if they wanted to, could add compatibility for ships mod. 

 

Here is the config for ships mod to make it work with TFC: http://pastebin.com/XfGrkCwb (I ask that you do not distribute this file, as I made it specifically for my pack, Technofirma)

As for stairs/slabs/detailed blocks, you just have to assume that they are all permeable, and that they are max-wait, otherwise the system can be easily exploitable.

 

Note, you will have to use a recipe mod to add a way to collect wool blocks, which are used for sails. and you must change the other block recipes to allow them to be craftable.

 

The API which Cuchaz plans to make sounds very promising. I think I'll show him this thread so that he can consider if he's willing to put that up higher in this to-do list.

 

Thank you for config. I noticed that all the weight values are set to 1. Is that intentionall, or did you simply leave that for end-user to config?

 

Another question - since the water is configed in, does it mean that ships from Cuchaz mod generates appropriate water type when sailing? (meaning that if you sail in sea, does it replace salt water blocks with salt water blocks, not vanilla water blocks?)

 

Maybe it's possible to change recipies so that burlap cloth can be used as sails? It doesn't have lots of uses right now. Actually, if both burlap and wool cloths could be placeable, it would be easy to make Cuchaz mod recognize them. And I'm sure there would be a lot of other uses for that in TFC.

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