Content: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Background: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
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      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
teiwaz

[0.79.?] Progression flowchart

19 posts in this topic

There was some discussion on making a flowchart in the Wiki Edits thread.  I decided to take a shot at it since it seemed fun.

 

So without further ado, here's a progression flowchart for TFC!

This flowchart is by no means done yet, but I've made an in-progress snapshot to hear any thoughts or suggestions about it.

 

I'm aiming to provide a clear overview picture of progression in TFC.  Trying to add in too much detail makes the flowchart unmanageably complex, so I'm also balancing how much detail to add and how much to trim away.

 

TODO

  • Food
  • Livestock
  • Miscellaneous items
  • Color paths to make crossings less ambiguous

Changelog

 

v0.4 2015-06-14

  • Finished smithing stuff.
  • Added Quern recipes.
  • Rerouting.

v0.3 2015-06-11

  • Use new mapping software (automatically generated -> manual).
  • Clean up flowchart so now it's actually usable, at the expense of removing some detail.

v0.2 2015-06-09

  • Added a few images.
  • Added legend.
  • Added ages.
  • Added more content.

post-18291-0-93615500-1434322113_thumb.p

Edited by teiwaz
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Add food gathering? You cannot do all that without half-starving OR eating ;)

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Add food gathering? You cannot do all that without half-starving OR eating ;)

I'm sure I'll add it at some point, but food gathering isn't important in terms of progressing.  It doesn't enable more tech or require any tech.  (Banana swords and bacon maces, anyone?)

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Banana swords and bacon maces, anyone?)

victory never tasted so good. :P

Edited by Mathias Ademar
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I'm sure I'll add it at some point, but food gathering isn't important in terms of progressing.  It doesn't enable more tech or require any tech.  (Banana swords and bacon maces, anyone?)

Isn't necessary - yes. Important? I'm not sure I agree.

 

I tend to start with farming before going fully into tech, especially when I play on a server and have to bear in mind that every time I log in, the season will change. A dozen barrels of various pickled foods (vegetables, fruits and proteins), plus several triangles of cheese and some grain allow me to concentrate fully on mining and constructing, instead of going hunting and gathering every so often.

 

Maybe "how to get a larder full of food" should be a separate flowchart, with cross-referenced points, like quern, firepit, barrels and wooden buckets (or simply saying at which point you need to be in casting age to progress with food).

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Isn't necessary - yes. Important? I'm not sure I agree.

 

I tend to start with farming before going fully into tech, especially when I play on a server and have to bear in mind that every time I log in, the season will change. A dozen barrels of various pickled foods (vegetables, fruits and proteins), plus several triangles of cheese and some grain allow me to concentrate fully on mining and constructing, instead of going hunting and gathering every so often.

 

Maybe "how to get a larder full of food" should be a separate flowchart, with cross-referenced points, like quern, firepit, barrels and wooden buckets (or simply saying at which point you need to be in casting age to progress with food).

Pickling requires metal for a saw for barrels, so that will be in the flowchart.

 

The point of a flowchart as opposed to a guide is that it leaves the decision-making ultimately up to the player.  If they want to live life on the starvation edge while pursuing tech, that's certainly possible, and vice versa.  I'm just laying out the hard dependencies that are required for making a certain item or doing a certain task.

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I think it would benefit greatly from some basic reorganization. Instead of curved lines use squared lines, and bundle lines coming from the same source. It also helps to align shapes to some kind of grid.

Posted Image

 

Note how chisel attaches to smooth stone, pickaxe to both smooth and raw stone, and smooth and raw stone to the quern. If you switch smooth and raw stone around, the arrow from chisel to smooth stone won't intersect the arrow between pickaxe and raw stone. Shuffeling techniques like that will help simplefy the diagram.

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Version v0.3

 

https://d.maxfile.ro/bamazxknaj.png

 

I was using a graph generator to deal with TFC's complexity, but I think that's unmanageable in the long run, so I've switched to doing the layout manually.  Unfortunately that still doesn't solve the fundamental complexity problem, so I'll start dropping some details, like how Querns depend on sticks.

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Maybe split it. A flowchart of tech/tools and one of raw materials.

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I definitely think that both Graphite and Kaolinite should be shown as requirements for fire clay, since they're such specific requirements. Also, the crucible isn't necessary until you want to make steel with a blast furnace. The bloomery tech for wrought iron also needs to be included.

 

Edit: So Bronze Forging -> Bloomery -> Wrought Iron Anvil -> Wrought Iron Forging + Crucible -> Blast Furnace -> Steel -> Colored Steels

Edited by Kittychanley
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Nice reorganisation, much easier to follow.

Charcoal isn't a strict requirement for a forge since it can be formed and fuelled with coal.

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Seems to imply a bellows, crucible and fire bricks are prerequisites of a wrought iron anvil - or that wrought iron isn't :)

Also, you *can*  get glass by using a forge (is faster than firepit)

 

otherwise looks great.

Edited by ChunkHunter
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how is the progress of the flow chart going? im saving wiki pages for offline use and i would love to get an updated version of this chart, as i feel it is quite useful.

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You should add crucible to medium tier smelting. What does it mean, anyway?

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Unless I'm mistaken, making leather requires at least 3 barrels. This flowchart makes it look like leather and bellows can be had without metal tools, which leads to barrels. I suggest moving leather to under barrel technology.

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Can't you make leather using large ceramic vessels?

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hey, you sure can!

I went and tried, thanks to your question. As I got set up I had a flash of memory - I'd done this before, a couple years back. I remembered why I thought you couldn't do it was that tannin would not be produced in the vessel. However, now I realize I probably used one of the woods that doesn't make tannin, but for all this time I thought it wasn't possible. Thanks!

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