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Lock0n09

Tree mechanics

34 posts in this topic

this is all about tree,......kinds of tree and their ,durability..

Kinds of tree

Soft wood- easy to burn, easy to cut this trees, easy to dry the wood.

Hard wood- It takes a long time to burnout in the firepit(good fuel), difficult to cut, it takes a lot of time to dry,

Dry wood- well this is a good building blocks, and good to start a fire instead of fresh wood,. Can be use to craft a normal tfc items,(ex: fence, door, etc)

Fresh wood- can be use to start a fire but it takes a lot of time to do,.....cannot be use for crafting,.....need to dry first to make it usable,....

Steps on how to dry a wood

Logs- place in the ground horizontaly and wait a few hours to dry

Hard wood logs- place it on the ground horizontaly and it takes 24 houra to try

if you are in rush and want to make your wood dry easily for fuels

Cut the wood in 4 parts verticaly and place it slant in other logs

// // // //

same with sticks but it can be dry while in your inventory,.....or place ot slant in one horizontal log...

I search for a keyword dry wood and i didn't see any thing connected to the key word

hope ypu guys like it :)

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This is an interesting idea, but it seems like it would make the first night even more difficult, seeing as you have to dry the wood before you can use it.  It would make it even harder for newer players who don't get a stone ax before the first minute of gameplay.  Getting a shelter before night fell would be nigh impossible unless you found a deep clay pit and dug yourself a little shelter.  However, I do like the idea of adding different strengths to different types of wood. A hickory or oak haft of a pickax would be stronger than an acacia haft.  Especially if archery got an overhaul, this could play out very well, and would make getting certain types of trees a bit more useful than just for decorative purposes.

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thank you for replying my post sir,...

I appreciate your idea for those new players,..

You can get a bunch of sticks and stone on the ground(those sticks are already dry)to make your first tools,...then like i said you can place a fresh wood instantly for building your shelter for the first night,...

Lets make this more realistic,...

Using a fresh wood as a building block is a good idea for a first night,...but the wood will docompose in the next few days,...but its ok, drying a wood is more faster than your decomposing shelter,....

Maybe add a random dead tree so you can gather that as a dry wood already..

Maybe this is the solution? I guess

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I like the ideas here, but based on what has been said about other things that add lots more detail like this suggestion...it most likely won't happen for the sake of keeping the game somewhat simple and not making the smallest of things a pain in the butt. An addon could be created to do something like this as far as a drying mechanic.

 

What could be used from this thread is the idea of wood strength, different types of stone are currently better than others for tool making with slightly higher durability. From what I can tell they split it up into categories and assigned the stone types to those categories. (Igneous, Sedimentary, Metamorphic) A similar thing could be done with woods such as softwood and hardwood, the category information could be stored as NBT data on wood items (sticks). They would affect the end durability of the tools/weapons but for the sake of not making it a pain in the butt all sticks would still use the same texture. The only problem with this is that sticks of a different type wouldn't stack and I'm not sure how sticks debris on the ground would register themselves...maybe based on what the local tree type is.

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Honestly, this is just absurd. It doesn't take hours or days but instead weeks or months for a piece of wood to dry out, I know from personal experience. Laying it on the ground overnight would never do a bit of good. Even still, good fires can easily be built with freshly cut wood, it's just a bit harder. The fresh wood will actually burn LONGER. I don't expect that waiting weeks or months for your firewood to dry out so you can just build a regular fire is a viable option in game. Players should be able to have their fire on the first day or days.

As for sticks, why would you need to dry them? They almost never fall off trees in the first place unless they're already dead and dry. Even if they weren't dry, just the fact that they were laying on the ground would mean that they would dry out naturally. Picking them up or laying them on logs for a few hours would never believably dry them. I have never heard of ANYONE irl drying sticks. It just doesn't happen.

There are already different burn rates for different types of wood, hardwoods like hickory burn longer and hotter than softwoods like pine and willow.

This would make one of the simplest tasks in the entire game, starting a fire, a complete grind. The system is fine the way it is.

Edited by anonymous conservative
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What could be used from this thread is the idea of wood strength, different types of stone are currently better than others for tool making with slightly higher durability. From what I can tell they split it up into categories and assigned the stone types to those categories. (Igneous, Sedimentary, Metamorphic) A similar thing could be done with woods such as softwood and hardwood, the category information could be stored as NBT data on wood items (sticks). They would affect the end durability of the tools/weapons but for the sake of not making it a pain in the butt all sticks would still use the same texture. The only problem with this is that sticks of a different type wouldn't stack and I'm not sure how sticks debris on the ground would register themselves...maybe based on what the local tree type is.

 

TFC already tried wood-specific sticks in a much older version. It was removed almost immediately because of how annoying it was to general gameplay compared to the minimal new mechanics it added.

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You would only end up with two types of stick NBT data therefore it can't get too crazy with that...I was not suggesting 17 different sticks. Using NBT data or metadata or whatever a different durability would occur based on if it was soft or hardwood. You would only need to store the category information not what type of tree, granted a array or some other list would need to be put in place to tell if a tree/log drops a softwood stick or a hardwood one.

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That's still two separate items that at a minimum would need to have different names so players aren't completely confused about why some stack together and others don't even though to them they appear identical. And honestly, do you think a smith is going to go specifically find hardwood sticks and toss out their softwood ones for a marginal difference in tool durability? I strongly doubt if that mechanic was added that anyone would actually go out of their way to use it, and most would just be annoyed with the extra inventory management. I mean, stone tools already have different durability but you rarely ever see players specifically using their igneous rocks to make tools.

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I'm aware of these drawbacks, I was just trying to contribute constructively. Maybe if it was a little bit more than marginal, lol...but you have a point.

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... honestly, do you think a smith is going to go specifically find hardwood sticks and toss out their softwood ones for a marginal difference in tool durability? I strongly doubt if that mechanic was added that anyone would actually go out of their way to use it, and most would just be annoyed with the extra inventory management. I mean, stone tools already have different durability but you rarely ever see players specifically using their igneous rocks to make tools.

I would absolutely go out of my way to use hardwood sticks for tool durability! If I'm going to spend the time to make, for instance, blue steel and then smith it into a shovel, I want that shovel to last as long as possible. On the other hand, I never go out of my way to make an igneous stone tool because it's just not that much work to make a new one if it runs out quickly. And in any case, if I'm making a stone tool, it's either early game, or I need an emergency axe or something, and I just want a tool ASAP.

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So from what I'm reading after a few google searches, the correct way to implement different tool handle durability would be to have tools keep the exact same durability as they do now for hardwood handles, and for softwood handles to actually have less than the base amount of durability. From the few articles I read, we're talking like 50% less in reality, if not more. So even if we do one tenth of that to not be completely evil, we're looking at a 5% decrease, which for a blue steel tool that was made with zero smithing skill would result in a difference of about 325 durability, or over half the durability of a copper tool.

 

From what I could find, there's really no good reason for a player to ever want to collect softwood sticks other than the fact that they would be indistinguishable from the others in crafting recipes that don't have durability, like paintings, ladders, etc.

 

It makes more sense to me to just leave sticks as they are, and just let players use the sticks they got from softwood leaves as their tool handles without having to worry about it breaking their tool so much faster.

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Instead of using percents the stick could only account for X amount and if its soft wood then you reduce X. That way the metal is still the focus

 

Ex. X=Stick Amount M=Tool Head C=Completed Tool

T+X=C, in the event of a softwood stick this would happen: T+(X-Softwood)=C.

This keeps the focus on the metal working but would give a little extra for those that want it.

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A stone tool has about 60 durability. How much of that is going to be the stick? Even if 100% of that is the stick, that's less than a 1% difference in durability for colored steel.

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I think that adding hardwood/softwood sticks would just make tool making more complex than it needs to be, and it wouldn't add any real benefits at all whatsoever. The focus should be on the actual tool part, not the stick. Anyhow, almost all tools are made with hardwood in real life. Softwoods are rarely used.

More often than not, any given area would probably contain at least one, prob more, type of hardwood tree. People would probably just bypass softwood altogether and never use it to make tools at all and just find the nearest hardwood tree. This would do nothing but limit what types of trees would be used. In that case, what's the use of even having those tree species (pine, willow, spruce, etc.) in game if almost no one will use 'em except for their colors in decoration?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that there are way more hardwoods in game than softwoods. I can think of pine, willow, spruce, and doug fir. Maybe kapok and acacia are considered softwood, I don't know. But the rest are hardwood. What's the use of just 4 or 5 out of 17 tree species bringing a negative effect to tool making compared to the norm? (Rock is different, where the igneous, metamorphic, and sedimentary categories are pretty balanced.) Frankly, this would be a pretty useless addition.

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Like I said at the top, maybe this wouldn't be such a great idea for tools, but maybe for archery if it got expanded.  That's how you would get different tiers of bows in with the different tiers of tools.  But the harder the wood, the more difficult the bow would be to make.  This would make softwood a viable option for a freshly spawned player's first bow, and as you progressed into the ages (maybe requiring a metal chisel to carve out the bow from harder sticks/logs) you could get better bows.

 

Just a suggestion.  You may feel free to critique it as you please. :P

Edited by Ancaladar
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...  But the harder the wood, the more difficult the bow would be to make.  ...

 

And maybe... the harder the tree is to harvest as well?  For example, ironwoods are extremely rough on tools, but they are wonderfully strong woods.  Then again... there already seems to be vehement opposition about different strengths for different woods, and I fail to see any non-contentious application of wood strength as a game mechanic other than perhaps your bow idea. Overall I think if there were different uses for different woods in other aspects of the game (including making bows and perhaps producing other wood-related products that were extremely important to some aspect of gameplay), then maybe wood strength aspect of this suggestion could conceivably find a way in as a potential balancing mechanism.  But I am not sure I see this happening, at least not in vanilla TFC.

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Like I said at the top, maybe this wouldn't be such a great idea for tools, but maybe for archery if it got expanded.  That's how you would get different tiers of bows in with the different tiers of tools.  But the harder the wood, the more difficult the bow would be to make.  This would make softwood a viable option for a freshly spawned player's first bow, and as you progressed into the ages (maybe requiring a metal chisel to carve out the bow from harder sticks/logs) you could get better bows. P

Now, I do agree that if archery were to be expanded, that the wood type would somehow play into the durability. The wood is, after all the body of the bow. It's quite different than with tools. I'm sure that chisels weren't used to carve bows, perhaps adzes could be added as a new tool for wood carving. If not, knives. Knives are used in whittling. The bows would likely be carved from not logs or sticks, but staves. Staves are split from logs, and are what bows are traditionally carved from. But this post isn't about bows but wood, so I'll leave it there.
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Chisels can be used to carve a bow.  I have seen examples of this.  You can even use an axe, as well as a knife or adze (as you mentioned) for the job.  I mean, what is an axe or an adze but a chisel on a handle?  Really, all you need to make a bow after you get the log split into a stave is a knife.

Edited by Andeerz
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I think if we were to have the trouble of considering the different wood hardiness in the creation of a tool handle we could go all the way and require the handle to be carved.

So for a stone tool, we could just use any stick that we found laying on the ground, and there is no need to create 2 or 17 different kinds of sticks, that would just be annoying.

As we progress into metal tools, that's when we want to have a good handle for the tool.

Of Course that would require a rethinking of how wood works in game as we would need to use stone tools to be able to produce the first handles.

It actually never made sense for me how much the mod limits the usage of wood before metals. Stone age people actually built wood plank houses and a variety of things, using only stone tools, even boats.  

One idea maybe is to use the knapping, clay grid, so you somehow open that interface with a log and a knife, and then you carve the log into the handle. ( it would make more sense to use a plank and not a log, but whatever is easy. )

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I think if we were to have the trouble of considering the different wood hardiness in the creation of a tool handle we could go all the way and require the handle to be carved.So for a stone tool, we could just use any stick that we found laying on the ground, and there is no need to create 2 or 17 different kinds of sticks, that would just be annoying.As we progress into metal tools, that's when we want to have a good handle for the tool.Of Course that would require a rethinking of how wood works in game as we would need to use stone tools to be able to produce the first handles.It actually never made sense for me how much the mod limits the usage of wood before metals. Stone age people actually built wood plank houses and a variety of things, using only stone tools, even boats.  One idea maybe is to use the knapping, clay grid, so you somehow open that interface with a log and a knife, and then you carve the log into the handle. ( it would make more sense to use a plank and not a log, but whatever is easy. )

A log seems like it what be too thick to whittle down into a handle. That would take hours, maybe a full day irl. The logs would need to be split into smaller pieces, maybe staves, in the crafting grid. Then there would be a interface sort of like knapping, but it shouldn't be shaped like a square. Maybe a rectangle?
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A log seems like it what be too thick to whittle down into a handle. That would take hours, maybe a full day irl. The logs would need to be split into smaller pieces, maybe staves, in the crafting grid. Then there would be a interface sort of like knapping, but it shouldn't be shaped like a square. Maybe a rectangle?

( it would make more sense to use a plank and not a log  

Like I said the ideal would be a rewrite of how wood is handle in the game. 

For example we should have access to planks without the need for a saw, using either a stone axe or wedges. If the Devs fill they need to limit some other aspects of the mod to metal age it could be done by introducing required devices. Like for the barrel we would need a metal band, made in the anvil, for doors we would need metal Hinges and so on and so forth. I would go to the extreme of requiring a Hammer and nail when placing wood blocks. So people would have access to the crafting grid, but not to elaborate constructions without metal.

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Sawmills, anyone? Maybe add a sawmill (multi?)block that can be (baby)fed logs and pops out the most efficient result (8, or maybe buffed to 16 or 32 or whatever). Axes and saws still have a guaaranteed result, and the extra(the ones that did not get messed up by inadequate tool) pops off the player, like straws from grain.

Djakuta, no need to complicate wood building.

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( it would make more sense to use a plank and not a log  

Like I said the ideal would be a rewrite of how wood is handle in the game. 

For example we should have access to planks without the need for a saw, using either a stone axe or wedges. If the Devs fill they need to limit some other aspects of the mod to metal age it could be done by introducing required devices. Like for the barrel we would need a metal band, made in the anvil, for doors we would need metal Hinges and so on and so forth. I would go to the extreme of requiring a Hammer and nail when placing wood blocks. So people would have access to the crafting grid, but not to elaborate constructions without metal.

Have you TRIED to make planks with an ax in real life?  It's really hard.  Really really really hard.

 

First of all, there's the whole issue of consistency, which is hard to do with an ax unless you're planning on using a hammer to drive the ax into the log.  Even in that case, you'll never get as good a plank as you would with a saw, and you'd use less metal making a saw in the first place than a hammer/ax combo.  The closest I've come to making good planks time after time using some type of ax is using an adze and just splitting the wood from the top to make a plank.  Even then they were not really planks, but more along the lines of a wooden shingle you would use for a house's roof.  I would hate to try to do that process with a stone hammer/ax combo in real life.  The stone would simply chip and break the tools before you even got a quarter of the way into the log.

Edited by Ancaladar
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Check out the longhouses made by native Americans in the pacific northwest. No saws needed to make smooth finished planks. Saws make it easier, but you can do without. Also, these were made with stone tools. No metal needed.

Also, requiring metal ANYTHING for carpentry is hardly realistic nor, in my opinion, believable. What does metal do in a wooden construction that wood conceivably couldnt? There are all-wood barrels, doors, complete buildings, etc..

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If you position wedges along the length of a log you can part in the middle, doing it again in quarts, as you keep using the wedges you will end up with several wood planks that will be thicker on one side, but are perfectly usable for several constructions and devices.

This technique was used to make houses and ships long before the use of any metal. 

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