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Miner239

Magic!

83 posts in this topic

I feel like magic and metallurgy should be opposing yet equal forces that when combined, create super strong weapons or tools.

one idea is to have them both come from similar sources or looped effects, for example heat. Since metal is melted from fire, and fire was seen as magic early on. This crystal idea is really cool however they should be heated by the sun,  this makes magic better mid day then at night, this means that mages could beat metallurgist in the day and be next to worthless at night (unless they are dark mages). This means that metal is consistent and magic is better depending on the time of day. Dark mages can use obsidian obelisks for power that consumes moonlight to create mana and feed spells however it should be extremely complicated and very in-efficient, requiring covering crystals in obsidian (conversion to darkness)

that would make them balanced and seemingly opposite. Magic should also be and alternative method to creating metal forms, example: steel. Steel is made in a blast furnace with coal however magic could use another substance such as souls or crystals to create soul metals or mana metals.

now to allow for conversion. When put together you should double the effectiveness of these items. For example, if a metallurgy blade is enchanted or infused with souls, it should gain magical effects (similar to vanilla)

Also can we have golems? They exist in vanilla but suck so we need better ones that do a programmed task and can be made of any metal and some materials like wood or rock for different uses and multiple sizes for strength bonuses (bigger is stronger but slower) 

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10 hours ago, snaketokill said:

I feel like magic and metallurgy should be opposing yet equal forces that when combined, create super strong weapons or tools.

By having the ability to combine the two and having the resources in similar locations you seem to want people to do both at the same time. Be both a master metal and crystal smith. I don't see how this makes them opposing. You use metal for obtaining resources, attacking, and defending. For them to be equal, magic must also be able to do the same without need of metal. Is that what you intend for magic? How is this going to vary enough from metal smithing that it is more than switching the graphics from ores to crystals, from forges and anvils to solar heaters and crystal shaping benches? 

If Mages are worthless at night when all the mobs come out, do you intend it to not be used for combat at all or for pvp primarily?

Golems require AI. Bioxx has already stated he wants to stay away from AI, so I would be surprised if he was willing to make golems.

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On 4/12/2016 at 4:40 PM, Stroam said:

If Mages are worthless at night when all the mobs come out, do you intend it to not be used for combat at all or for pvp primarily?

On 4/12/2016 at 5:01 AM, snaketokill said:

and magic is better depending on the time of day

Well i think they would not depend at all by daytime, but on a lot of other things like temperature, moisture,  distance from dungeons and portals, some blocks (for example some types of flowers, trees, gem ores, vulcanic rocks...), or even mobs.

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What about if we had a system of a science tech tree and a magic tech tree, and one was limited to only being able to do one tree, and the only way you could switch is if you drank some sort of brew that reset your research, basically making you start over. Each tree has its pros and cons making them equally as powerful but still different.

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Terra firma is set with player freedom, this means that instead of making it impossible to do one thing or another, it is simply made undisireable. So, if everything had a counterpart in the other camp so to speak, that would make it so people followed either tree. So, instead of limiting the player, he should simply choose a path based on its desireabilty not a set in stone rule. So, my original up and down sides may not make sense but if you make magic more environmentally based and metallurgy constant, that would make both paths that could be chosen. What I mean by this is some spells could be more effective in certain temperatures or biomes than others and metal has a constant strength.

basically; metal is stable, magic is variable 

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If there is going to be magic in this TFC2 at least it should be useful by the time you get it, but just as useful as what you can do at that point. What I mean is that magic should have the potential to improve your current situation and should not be not a tech tree that you need to research for several weeks before you can do something useful. For example, the metal tiers of TFC1, they are a way to improve the situation in which you are but you didn't had to research for countless days before you can achieve the same level of stuff that you can do at that point, they were always an improvement.

For example, lets say that we can construct a wand of mana missile, a wand that shoot the most basic of all spells, balls of mana. In TFC1 the best place to have it is as soon as you can do javelins, stone javelins (yup, from the very beginning). I know that you would say that that would break the game, but hear me out. You first wand in awfully inefficient, it waste a lot of mana and you don't have too much mana nor mana regeneration to begin with. At best you can kill two or, with luck, three bears per mana bar and you regen your mana in a day. So, what is the point? Well, the same point of the stone javelin, to use it as a last resort mechanism.

Later on, when you made your first base you can create a wand of infuse mana... that infuse mana to an object or plant with it. A mana infused tomato plant grows faster, but casting mana infuse cost as much as a mana missile so it become a game of resources. That would be great for places with very scarce food, or to get more seeds/materials from a rare plant in the early game. And it is balanced, I mean, if there is a lot of food, would you waste mana on a few plants just to get more food faster or you prefer be exploring the land while your crops grow? 

- Are you at the point in which you can make bows? You can cast stronger mana balls. Bows can fire as long as you have arrows, and if arrows are easy to make... 

-Are you in copper tier? Infused magic runes to grow medicinal herbs and mana herbs for basic potions

- what about iron tier? Infused earth runes to grow trees a bit faster or allow fruit trees to grow on other climates. First runes engraved on equipment for minor magic weapons and armors

- Steel? What about some explosive magic...

And so on...

 

 

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Here's an idea that compiles a lot of ideas together, some take inspiration from the multitude of wonderful magic mods already out there as well as other ideas on this thread. The theme is magic is common, and there are many types and uses, there are always trade offs, and there are no restrictions on character use. Types of magic include Artificer, Naturalist,  Illusionist, and Alchemist. Anyone can do any combination of the various magics. Each one offers a completely different functional system and progression system. Because of that people will tend to gravitate toward different ones depending on their needs. I do not expect Bioxx to incorporate any of these as each on it's own would be a major undertaking. Mostly it's a fun exercise in ideas

Artificer - Animators of Stone

This is derived from power concentrated in earthen materials. Each chunk has a chance of being the node of one or more ley lines. Depending on how many ley lines are crossing at that point depends on the strength of that chunk. If one were to dig down in these chunks they would find crystals of varying quality and size. The size effects how much power it can store, and the quality effects the rate of discharge. As you use the power of these crystals they will eventually deplete and become inert. They can be recharged again by spending time in a node chunk. These chunks have a buffer size(well depth), rate it refills(flow rate), rate it empties(tap strength). When several crystals are refilling, it will attempt to refill all of the crystals that need refilled at natural tap strength. When it is unable to refill all crystals due to amount tapped being higher than flow rate it will prioritize based on attuning and first come. 

Crystals once dug up from ley nodes can be refined. The refining shapes the crystals and imbues it with properties. Each refinement and time spent on refining of a crystals makes it smaller and hold less power. One such refinement is attuning. By learning the natural resonance of the ley node, one can shape the crystal to match making the node prioritize that crystal when it is being tapped. The longer you spend on the refinement the higher priority the crystal will have. Crystals can only be attuned to one node at a time. Another refinement is dissonance and consonance. This allows one to adjust the rate in which the crystal is refilled. You can either increase or decrease the rate based on how long you spend on the refinement. This can in the most extreme circumstances make a crystal not recharge at all or recharge at twice the normal tap strength. The slang words for these two extremes are one time use and double tapped. Crystals can also be cut to remove flaws in the crystal to make a smaller but higher quality gem. These gems do not like water and will be less effective based on how wet the environment is.

Once you have your crystals refined they can then power runes. Multiple crystals can be used to power a series of runes but each rune socket must be sized appropriately for the crystal size. Runes can be inscribed on stone or metal. Depending on what runes or combinations of runes you use depends on the effect. The higher quality the gem the stronger the effect and the large the gem the longer it can go without recharging. The runes can be simple or complex with shorter ones on blades doing things like auto sharpening your blade after each swing or complex series written on stone that prevents zombies from passing. Runes are learned by a minigame at a rune research table and learning them from others. On the rune research table you place a block of stone, a chisel, and a mineral and play the minigame. It is essentially a 16x16 grid of picross that if you make a mistake you have to start all over with a new block of stone and mineral. Each mineral is a different puzzle and when completed you'll have a stone inscribed with that particular rune. For complex rune combinations you have to place, activate and test. Runes can eventually be made in mass by using a rune stamper. It is a complex machine that requires a metal stamp of the rune, blocks of stone, and the mineral needed. What you gain in automation you lose in resources. Every block has a chance(server configurable) block gets cracked consuming the block and mineral. 

Naturalist - Blessings of Nature

When one wants help accomplishing a task an option is to turn to the spirits. Spirits are not the easiest or safest thing to talk to. So to get closer to the spirits one needs to go where spirits hang out. Spirits hate a love hate relationship with life so you want to go somewhere with a lot of life for the highest chance of success. Next you usually want to bribe the spirits but just throwing offering on the ground is about as effective as a message in a bottle tossed out to sea. To improve the chance of success one needs to build a temple and/or an altar. When build such, remember that spirits have a harder time moving through in organic vs organic materials and that iron seems to cause them pain. Once built, you can be pretty sure that your offering gets to the spirits. But not all spirits are helpful or can do all things, nor do they know what you want. Things that help improve that you get a helpful spirit is learning their names, what they can do, and what they like (A lot like real people in a way). To do this one has to go out and meet them...the parallels to life are uncanny. So to meet the spirits one must prepare, or not, depending on how risky you want to be. Things that help you meet the spirits include heat in the form of fire or steam, incense, music, and a psychedelic to free ones mind from their physical form.

Once you are in the spirit world you need to be careful because it can be very dangerous. There are some spirits that will attack and kill you and some that will attempt to steal your body. There are various ways to decrease your risk. Evil spirits tend to be territorial and can be detected in the physical world by ritual candles. By walking around the world with one of these candles, if it were to go out there could be an evil spirit nearby. It could also be the wind so it helps to check multiple times. So build your ritual spot away from places like that unless you are trying to meet the evil spirit. This will help you from running into the evil spirit in the spirit world.

Next is have these candles around your body when you are in the spirit world. If you do this people in the physical world can see when an evil spirit is trying to get at your body and recall your spirit to your body. This can be accomplished by pouring water onto the body long enough for their spirit to return but is painful and not a nice way to be brought back. Another way is to have a chicken nearby. The chicken helps hide your body while your soul is away. It isn't 100% effective though. Another way is entombing the body in an iron container but the person's spirit is also stuck. You could wait for the spirit of the person to leave, then entomb the body and wait till his spirit gets back. You will know when you either hear knocking or if you have a spiritual bells they will ring. Of course there is no way of knowing if it is the person or another spirit. More advanced practitioners can construct wards in the spirit world to provide protection for their body. 

Various tools that can help you in the spirit world include a long narrow table made of flexible wood that can act as a mount in the spirit world. Some charms have spell like abilities in the spirit world. Protective spirits that often take on the form of wolves. Last but no least a friend that can protect over the bodies in the spirit world while the other goes off to contact the spirits. 

Once you have met a spirit their form will forever be imprinted upon your memory allowing you to make statues of them when you get back. The spirits, once you gain their trust will tell you what they can do, what they like, and how to send them a message. For instance one may be able to effect plants and tells you if you sacrifice a sheep they will make plants in the area grow quicker. Some of the greater spirits require sacrifices are very hard to find materials but have been known to grant weapons and armor greater than any steel. To summon the spirit in the overworld you may need to make a statue of them, place gifts upon an altar made of a specific wood, use specific incense and have a certain amount of life essences in the area. Remember to keep anything with iron away as spirits don't like iron.

Note of warning. The more you interact with the spirits the better known you become in the spirit world which attracts more spirits which sometimes results in some of those spirits manifesting, buffing your enemies, causing havoc on your crops and animals, and 

If a Evil spirit gets summoned you may want some sort of protection unless you are asking them to curse something. This mostly includes drawing protection circles with salt or iron dust and the use of charms. Charms have also been used for protecting crops and live stock. Make sure that you trust who is giving you the charms because they have different levels of effectiveness and have to be renewed every so often.

Naturalist are also great healers and spend a lot of time learning about various herbs and learning what combinations can yield such effects such as increased regeneration, increased health and endurance, curing animals, and curing nausea. 

Illusionist - Manifestation of the mind

Some call this true or high magic. It is one of the most difficult types of magic to master. It allows one to use spells to make things real. It requires a lot of effort, constant effort, and practice to be any good. It all starts with making a focus. Each Illusionist must make their own focus because your focus holds no meaning for anyone else. This is usually a smoothed rock held in the off hand at first and modified later. The second thing needed is a scroll held in the main hand. The focus helps you concentrate and the scroll you remember how to do something. You will need to write on the scroll what it is you are trying to do. At first you'll have to keep it short to make it easier to concentrate on and as you practice you will be able to concentrate on more complex tasks. Concentrating too hard can hurt you. 

So on your scroll you need to write what it is your are trying to accomplish. This is done with a scribing table, ink well, memory inks, a nib, and an empty scroll. You will then write what you are trying to accomplish using various symbols. Just as your focus won't work for anyone else, neither will your scrolls because they won't hold the same meaning. Once you are done inscribing your scroll you can now use it to cast spells assuming you were clear in your meaning. The most simplest spell that most start with is direction. By concentrating you'll be able to tell if you are looking north. More complex spells make giant ice walls, lance enemies with earthen spikes, and flood an area with lights. Of course any manifestation of the mind takes concentration to make and maintain. If concentration is broken the manifestations will cease to exist. An illusionists beliefs can be so strong that those around them believe it to giving them extra strength or speed.

Again it takes a long time and a lot of practice to get good at being an illusionist. After each concentration effort it takes awhile for the mind to rest before it can concentrate again. Focusing of on say lighting things on fire doesn't help you construct an ice wall, so each area must be practiced. This becomes easier as you get better and are able to concentrate on complex spells with multiple parts. A lot of Illusionist also find that making various foci for different tasks help them reduce the amount of concentration needed. If you decide to stop practicing for a length of time your skills will starts to decrease. If you were a master Illusionist while you may always be a good Illusionist no matter how out of practice you are, you definitely will not be as good as you once were without practicing again.

Alchemist - Reconfiguration of the World

Known as World Shapers, these builders use their talents to construct, deconstruct, and relocate blocks in the world. This requires specialized tools and no small degree of energy. The first step is making a rod. Rods are used to to conduct power so the better conductor the rod is the less power it will take to reconfigure something. Most will probably start with copper. Once you have shaped your rod you need to construct your storage device. Take graphite or coal and combine with a diamond. The first reconfiguration you don't need any power for. Left click on long and then you'll see a box highlighted. Moving the box around you'll see it makes the outline of a rectangle with the log and the box being the two corners. Now left click again making sure there's 4 air per log. Right click and options will come up with decompose, imprint, and generate. Select decompose and you'll see the logs get sucked into your storage device. It didn't take any power to deconstruct because the combination of the air and log generated the energy needed to break it down. More complex things take more energy to break down, and if something is too complex it won't be broken down.

You then can add power to the storage device by cooking it. The device loses energy at a constant rate so make sure you use it's energy quickly. Cook the storage device until it has plenty of energy. Then go to another log and left click it twice. Rick click and select imprint and name the imprint. Then left click the air with your rod twice. Now with the charged storage device in your off hand rick click and select generate and then select the imprint you made. The log will manifest as the log you imprinted in the position you just selected assuming there is enough power in the storage device. You'll notice the more variety and amount of things you absorb into your storage device the slower it loses energy. 

At an Alchemist bench you can view all the elements in your storage device, remove imprints, upgrade your rod, and construct more advanced tools you'll need. In order to unlock such tools you will need to deconstruct increasingly complex objects so to figure out how they work as well as have enough elements and energy in your storage device to construct it. The devices can do things such as give you different options for collecting energy and even teleportation devices. Note of caution, test teleportation device on unimportant objects and animals first so you can fine tune the devices. 

 

Edited by Stroam
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Perhaps I should tweak my idea, the two branches of science and magic still exist but both can be used, but the higher tier you are at the harder it is to use both, meaning one can use both at low tiers but has to choose a branch at higher tiers, however there is still a brew or potion or something that allows you to switch branches

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