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Rowist

Bring back solid thatch blocks

15 posts in this topic

Before you blow up on me up hear me out.

I fully supported the dev's decision to get rid of our old thatch survival huts. I always thought that was too easy like the standard dirt hut in vanilla. However, I was not a fan of making them transparent.

What if the thatch block was a tfc style gravity block instead. It would be no more viable than dirt for an early game shelter, but could still work for a solid roof with proper support.

To compliment the thatch block, I suggest adding a thatch bale that is crafted with thatch and jute twine. That block would be a vanilla style gravity block that could be used as a crude wall, but not in the early game.

Just a thought, let me know what you think.

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It would not work well for an early roof, because it would be either

 

A) Fully Aestetic, as it would require a complete roof underneath it, or

 

B) Not early game, because it would use support beams, which require metal saws.

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Using jute to make the block solid sounds like a good idea.  Give some use for the later-game jute surplus.  I think it would be ok to make it gravity defying and solid.  By that time people are going to be using them for the look anyway, no need to make it harder than necessary.

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The only problem I have with gravity defying thatch blocks is that I don't thing you should be able build bridges or scaffolding out of thatch. Even in 78 when we could build houses out of thatch I was never a big fan of the fact that we could bridge over a ravine.

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I think the reason people used thatch that way was because grass is everywhere so they could just mow some down and use it, wherever they were.  Jute it not everywhere, so the player would have to make the bales at base, and bring it with them. But why not just bring plank blocks?  I think plank blocks, on the balance, are easier to make, especially on expedition.  True, they do take an axe to take down, but I'd say that's not really a huge deal.  If players want to use the bales for scaffolding at base, fine.  I don't think it's productive to try and police what people use as scaffolding really.

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Those are all good points, but weren't the devs basically policing how we use thatch blocks when they made them transparent. We all got though it, we figured out new ways to survive those first nights, and personally I'd say that it made surviving that much more rewarding. It is a survival mod after all.

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Honestly the way thatch is right now is good. The alternative would be to make it so mobs can easily destroy thatch. and not be able to walk on top, to prevent thatch bridges. We accomplish all that the way we have it now.

The only use I have for thatch is to mark the location of metal nuggets, so I can center where to dig.

I hate thatch roofs, they look like peasant buildings. So unless We are building a whole medieval town and want to make an area as the peasants village, I see no use for it as a building block.

I like to use it as a door for my cold rooms, so no light gets in.

Not trying to bash the post, just giving my opinion. Maybe if people would give examples of how they would like to use the thatch block and are not able by the current mechanic, it would help me understand the reasoning for this proposal.

Once again, not being sarcastic or anything. I am legitimately trying to understand the issue with thatch. 

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Those are all good points, but weren't the devs basically policing how we use thatch blocks when they made them transparent. We all got though it, we figured out new ways to survive those first nights, and personally I'd say that it made surviving that much more rewarding. It is a survival mod after all.

There's a big difference, imo, between policing what people use as shelter in the early days, vs policing their scaffolding.  Early days shelter has clear game balance implications.  Scaffolding not so much.   If jute can be used to make solid thatch, that's not going to affect the first several days, unless the player gets extremely lucky and runs across like 10+ mature jute plants right at the start, fires up a large vessel, and hangs around for a day while they turn to jute (and that's assuming a bale requires only 1 jute, and the player is ok in a closet at night).  In that time they could easily have 6+ stacks of logs.    If the player is lucky and starts near a bunch of jute, I got nothing against them having a very, very slight advantage in the first few days.  The player can already use gravity defying logs as bridges and climbing scaffolding, so I'm not sure what the problem with bales also being gravity defying would be.  I never tear that stuff down in single player, so there's no disadvantage to the long take-down of logs there.  Multiplayer, maybe you want to, maybe not. I think far, far more common scenario is the player gets seeds, and has to wait a year to have enough jute to make enough bales for a shelter.  But more likely they're doing it for the look.  If it's a big concern, make a bale take 4 straw + 2 jute.  The player will under no circumstance have bales until they have a saw then. 

 

Now personally, I don't care much one way or another.  But, thatch bales would be kind of nice, for those who do want a thatched look, because right now making a thatch roof is annoying due to having to wade around in thatch, being slowed down.  You can avoid that by good planning, but sometimes you decide to renovate.  Also your roof need to be twice as thick, if you want to walk on top.  It's not a big deal which is why I don't care that much.  But the op's idea seems balanced and reasonable, and with the addition of gravity defying, useful.

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We all do fine with the way thatch is now. I don't absolutely hate it the way it is, I just feel like they turned it into a useless block. The change to transparency was just one means of game balancing. Does the end justify the means? In a game about building with blocks, why take away the usefulness of a block? 

 

Not every player will use thatch the same way, but that is true of any block in the game. The game is about creativity as well so none of us should limit our perspective to only the way we use a block. 

 

If you want a specific example, I used to build dirt roofs that were supported by a horizontal frame of lumber on the inside in such a way that the dirt would not slide off. The lumber frame made it so that the roof didn't have to be two blocks thick and I could see the dirt in the ceiling. If I got the grass spread up there it looked really nice (in my opinion anyway). The same type of lumber frame looked really nice under a thatch roof in 78 to made the roof look supported without being two blocks thick. It doesn't work anymore because I fall through. 

 

I'm pretty sure that making thatch a tfc gravity block would take care of any concerns about shelters or bridges. We don't build a shelters or bridges out of just dirt or cobble.

 

Darmo: I see where you are going with that. Gravity defying thatch with the addition of jute would probably not cause balance issues in the early game unless you were super lucky with your seed. And it would be really nice for the builder gameplayers to have a scaffold block that breaks easier than wood. As much as I rely on dirt scaffold in vanilla it would be really nice to have a nice scaffold in TFC. If the price for it is a healthy supply of jute that is fair enough.

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How about the existing thatch staying as it is, but add the hay bales that were suggested in the OP.

That way you *could* make a roof you can walk on (even if it isn't aesthetically pleasing to all eyes).I think making this a shapeless recipe with, say 2 (or 3) thatch blocks and 2 (or 1) pieces of jute fibre (not rope) would be doable.

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If you want cheap scaffolding, use support beams. Jump and place one at your feet and it automatically becomes 3-high. Keep jumping to climb to the top. When you're done, jump down and a very quick swing with an axe takes the whole tower down.

 

Thatch is a roofing block, and nothing more. Making it fall from gravity completely destroys its intention as roofing material.

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Personally, I like the idea of adding a solid thatch bale made with (current) thatch blocks and some string/rope/similar.  The string/rope requirement means you have to work at least as hard as you would for wood to get solid thatch blocks, while still allowing players the option of using it if they wish.  A believable crafting recipie for me would be as little as one thatch and one string, or up to six thatch and three string.  The exact recipie would be up to how difficult you want it to be from a resource gathering standpoint.  Myself, I think two thatch and two string would make it prohibitive as a starting construction material while not making it too difficult to get for a determined player.

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Would it be possible, from a coding standpoint, to make thatch have similar support mechanics to leaves? That is to say, a thatch block not 'connected' to a solid block within 4 blocks (for example) would decay or vanish. That way, it would work well as a roofing material, but not for building large structures. 

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Simple solution. Minetweak a recipe for vanilla hay bales. Rename and even retexture.

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One could use bunsan's idea for mine tweaker to implement krenshala's recipe using string/rope and thatch blocks. Though I would put it like so:

SSS

TTT

SSS

S = String/rope

T = Thatch

Edited by Mathias Ademar
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