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cjhc12

Imrpoved Sleeping

Better Sleep   20 members have voted

  1. 1. Should this be implimented ?

    • Yes
      8
    • No
      12

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

14 posts in this topic

One thing I fell terrafirma craft lacks and with all mods is sleeping

How can steve survive without sleeping for days and days ?

My suggestion :

The basics

1. There is a set number of days you can go with out sleeping.

2. In the calander gui you can see your sleep status.

3. Pressing say "l" will make you go to sleep.

4. After 23 hours (ingame time) you will start getting bad potions effects for a number of seconds the time of the effects will increase untill you have gone 48 hours with out sleep when you will collapse.

5. Collapsing will give a 74% chance that you die instantly or after a few seconds you will wake up with your sleep meter reset.

6. Alchol will remove all bad effects after the 23 hours but when you have drunk alchol you can not see your sleep status. The 48 hour period before colapsing is prolonged to 60 hours but if you do colapse while drunk you have a 92% chance you die

7.You can sleep anywhere at anytime but if you are not on a bed mobs will have a increased spawning rate around you even in day time . At night time with out a bed there will be thousands of mobs.

If you sleep at regular times you will have good health and deal more damage to mobs you will not need to eat and drink as much.

Please fill in the form to tell me if you like this idea and tell me how it could be added to in the suggestions.

Personally I think this would add more of a challenge to the mod.

Maybe you sleep better near a fire or under shelter ?

Please give me your ideas ?

Thank you for reading !!

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I think these were some really good ideas for the first 3.5 points and then you started to lose me. After that, it just seemed to get a bit too complicated to make it worth adding. I do like the idea of sleep be necessary, though. I don't think it should be that harsh, though.

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Some thoughts:

- one button to sleep is too easily accidentally pushed.  It needs to be a combo like Alt-S or something.

- The basic bad effects should be the same as low hunger.  Vision distorting potion effects should be for extreme sleep deprivation.

- Death from collapse is way, way too extreme.  The annoyance, or chance of mob attack if it happens in the open at night, is enough.  Maybe some damage from hitting your head when you collapse.

- I don't think the game can handle 'thousands' or even 'scores' of mobs - presumably that was hyperbole?

- I don't think the alcohol mechanic as suggested is logical, but I do like having a potential actual use for alcohol.

- Being able to sleep even without a bed would be nice in the early game, as long as the nights still insta-pass if everyone is sleeping in multiplayer.  However it would get pretty annoying if you're playing with others and don't synchronize your sleeping.  Unless you only need to sleep for like, an hour or something.

- It would be good to have a coffee plant added as a crop (only growable in the tropics - the deep tropics, not 7k latitude) as kind of a no-side-effect method.

- Overall, I'm not a big fan of the idea.  It just doesn't add anything good, except being able to pass nights without a bed maybe.  The main thing I like about it is giving a use to alcohol.

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Yeah, I don't think getting anything past mild nasuea/slowness/mining fatigue is justifiable, and even with this I don't want to have to sleep when I don't want to.

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I like the idea of seep be necessary.

The other points in your suggestion, not so much. Maybe you should rephrase your poll, as right now we have to like or dislike your whole suggestion.

At least for me Alcohol makes me even more sleepy. Unless you are drinking vodka with RedBull.

As much as I can appreciate a Beer in real life I cannot see any real good effects of drinking alcohol in a game. To say that alcohol will remove the effects of sleep deprivation is too much.

Alcohol makes you relaxed and more prone to sleep.

I like the idea of coffee, to help postpone the need for sleep at least for some time.

I see some problems to implement in a Multiplayer environment, but it all depends on implementation. Mostly is like for example if someone is hunting mobs and everyone else wants to sleep. Sleep is mostly reserved for single player, maybe if this feature was made optional?

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Sleeping through the night on a multiplayer server just makes the server time go by twice as fast.  People who aren't online log in to find that 8 days have passed instead of 4.  I think some people forget that this is a game, not a simulation.  It's supposed to be an escape from the real world, not a recreation.  What fun would that be? 

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*IF* it were desired to bring sleep into the game, I think it would be better to make a carrot, and not a stick.  After sleeping you get something like a 16 game hour 'well rested' bonus that maybe lets you move a little faster, mine/chop a little faster, etc (only a little though).  People don't like penalties, and I think they would especially dislike having whatever they're doing forcibly interrupted, but as a bonus I think rest would be much more palatable.

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The biggest problem I see about this is multiplayer. Players are already complaining about having to wait around during nighttime because they have nothing to do. Imagine how annoying it would be if you have to sit around for a few minutes during the day for the sole reason that your player just fell asleep, and no you really can't do anything at all until enough time passes. It is a very rare case that everyone on a server is asleep at the same time, so the whole "skipping to morning" mechanic will pretty much never happen.

 

I'd also like to point out that this suggestion has already been discussed to death on this forum. Here's a list of a bunch of topics discussing sleep, fatigue, and stamina:

 

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Hi everyone !

 

I also think sleeping with a time jump is mainly a single player thing. But here my thoughts about this :

1)  We can have instead in multiplayer a sleeping need which required to lay on a bed to replenish quickly the sleep amount, like a nap, similar to make a stop to drink from a pond to replenish water amount in fact (some seconds only). Debuff and maybe buff will be triggered by the sleep amount of course, but the thing could be that in night the rate of sleep gain is more high than in day, but you also need to be carefull of mobs wandering around, forcing a bit to find or build a shelter by night. The night bypassing can always be available for synchronized players, maybe the only way to fill totally the sleeping need for example.

 

2) I see in a dead topic someone prefers to fear weather elements instead night threats : a way to maybe do that is to link sleep loss with temperature and rain/snowfall. Sleeping in night is also because of the lack of light, but Harcore Darkness mod allows already that. Darkness + Mobs make multiplayer choices more easy to sleep in same time by the night :).

Alcohol, coffee/tea, etc... They can be add but maybe with low priorities and with parameters to disable that, everyone will find what he need, but it stays more work.

 

3) I recently ask about some possible idea of configs to the Better Sleeping mod (see suggestions in this GitHub project). I think maybe the best thing is to make a bit more compatibilties for sleeping mod(s) instead to implement that directly, and mainly for single player (...who i am). The creator of this mod makes a great work and configurable parameters are very usefull (debuffs / fall on the ground / sleeping calculations...). I ask her if it will be possible to know the "source" (falling on the ground, vanilla bed, TFC straw bed....) of sleep function call and if it will be possible to tweak parameters for each way. I don't know if it's possible, seems pretty hard, but if someone is interesting to make something similar, she will maybe try to work one day on that. Things which can be usefull to compatibily from TFC side would be :

- to have at least a parameter to enable sleeping with the StrawHideBed,

- to have a parameter to choose like Medium Hide to build the StrawHideBed allowing to balance that with this new sleeping need (generally a way to tweak any structures "recipes" but i think maybe it's inevitably too hardcoded to allow that),

- and finally maybe link TFC player actions / environment to the sleeping mechanic of this mod, but it's a compatibility that seems extremely too deep to do.

 

My idea here is to get a sleeping need, but which cannot be fully replenish in one sleep session when the player uses a "survivalist" way to do it, or worst, by falling on the ground (voluntarily falling is a great idea here). So, with a vanilla bed you can maybe bypass the night, but not totally with other ways, forcing to fall asleep 2-3 times with some minimum time between, and if you want to max as possible your sleeping need (just like if you have a bad night in a bad bed finally), just enough to spawn some mobs wandering by night, and here too, forcing to find/build a shelter. By day, you can repeat to sleep or continue to explore if you have enough sleep amount before a new nap, because you don't need to invest in a shelter thing. Like that, a good sleeping management can be tricky, so little buff(s) can be rewarding.

 

That remains only ideas, but it is maybe interesting ?

Edited by lucan6029
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I'd like to point out that there is pretty much no survival-based game out there that I know of that implements any sort of sleep requirement, and this is done for good reason. Forcing the player to do nothing, even for a short period of time, does not make for good gameplay. The closest example that I can think of is the torpor mechanic in ARK Survival Evolved, but that was implemented as a PvP mechanic, not a survival mechanic, and therefore only ever happens in combat situations and isn't an everyday concern. Even so, those few seconds where your character has passed out and you can do nothing more than stare at a blurred screen are in my opinion the worst sections of time of that entire game. It is so ridiculously frustrating as a player to not actually be able to play.

 

Linking a sleep mechanic with temperature and precipitation makes absolutely no sense at all. If anything, cold temperatures or rain are going to make a player feel more awake. A tip I have heard many times for if you are ever in a situation where you are driving and find yourself a little drowsy but unable to immediately pull over is to open the windows. The cold wind helps you stay awake for a bit longer.

 

There are multiple reasons why the straw/hide bed requires a large hide, for both believability, balance, and coding feasibility. For balance, we decided that being able to set your spawn point should be at least somewhat difficult, and therefore the large hide requirement means that the player must kill either an adult bear, large cow, large deer, or adult horse. A deer large enough to drop the large hide are fairly rare, you risk taking a lot of damage when killing a bear, and both horses and cows spawn in very specific climates, with large enough naturally spawned cows being a bit rare. For believability, remember that a hide bed is two meters long. If you were to use a hide from a smaller animal, you would need multiple hides to cover the entire thing. For coding feasibility, by limiting to a single specific item, we don't have to do any sort of extra finicky storage to remember exactly what you used to create the bed so we know what to give back when you break it.

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Forcing the player to do nothing, even for a short period of time, does not make for good gameplay.

 

I'm agree, is for what i try to propose a mechanic which is not really based on the period of time to sleep, but a mechanic that mainly forces the player to find or build a kind of shelter. Do nothing is not a good gameplay for sure, but i would like to be more stress by the environment to protect myself by building, instead running at night. So set up a static thing like a bed (because stay close a campfire is not really often needed during exploration), with a very short immobilization to fear threats, can maybe make that (thinking also runningworsens tiredness status, to advantage of setting up a camp). Very short immobilization is also a common way in video games to be vulnerable (PvP or/and PvE) during strategic action, healing... (even here is more a passive thing, i agree). For me, it's not about doing nothing, but be more vulnerable, to have a need to manage more a exploration. I think sleeping need can be present in game, it's just a perfectible design. For players used to stay in a summit of a sharped mountain to wait until morning, it became the opposite : make something with a bit more sense than just staying up there. The only way to don't have to find a good shelter with that, is to explore in co-op to protect each other during the tiny sleeping time, like make some little watch. A creeper hiss can so quickly happen sometimes...

And this can be less necessary than one sleep per night, maybe one each two or three nights, it's also a possibility.

 

 

Linking a sleep mechanic with temperature and precipitation makes absolutely no sense at all

 

Yeah, my fault, i didn't use a good term. It's more "tiredness" than "sleep need". Open a widow for fresh air for some revigoration make only a temporarly and mainly "mental" perception. Here, i think about the physical status in the long term : stay outdoor in cold weather (rain and snowfall can be a little catalyzer factor of that) or heat make usually your metabolism works more than a moderate weather, so rising tiredness.

 

 

There are multiple reasons why the straw/hide bed requires a large hide, for both believability, balance, and coding feasibility

 

 

Exactly, i'm okay with these three things, but what i'm saying it's with an add of sleeping requirement, than not here for now in TFC, it will be good to have a thing to rebalancing that a bit, large or medium hide can made the trick. I thought medium hide was close enough for believability with this rebalancing, but it was already borderline for me. Using two medium hides would be a better solution but it's not really doable like you said (for now, MineTweaker can mix hides in larger one, it's a simply but ugly way to do it). But here coding feasibility is a rightful opponent for me.

Edited by lucan6029
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Yes I every ones comment is very valid I just feel that sleeping needs adressing

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The only situation I see for sleeping to really work in a game, In a true Virtual Reality, where the game will actually make you sleep, so the time will pass faster for you. Other solutions could potentially work, but only in a single player environment, but never in Multiplayer.

There are actually several factor that could work better in the mod if they have a different behavior from single player to Multiplayer.

I do not see this differentiation ever developed in tfc. It would require a lot more coders in a professional way. At least I have never heard of a minecraft mod with different versions for single and multiplayer.

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Interesting.Darmo's idea about'sleep only one hour in game'is a good way to let sleeping less annoying in multi-player.And I regard adding small games during sleeping as a good way to pass the time.This means you can play some small games while steve is sleeping,and you can gain something like XP as the reward,which motivates players to sleep.

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