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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
TonyLiberatto

Future of Building in tfc2

54 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Kittychanley said:

The reason that TFC1 has been abandoned is because there is no feasible way to port it beyond Minecraft 1.7.10, and like every other mod out there when the main game updates to new versions but the mods don't the mods are eventually a thing of the past used by very few players.

Well TFC1 does not rely heavily on Minecraft mechanics. You basically used the engine as a framework to make an entirely different game and I don't think there are not too many mod combinations with TFC that actually make sense, so there is no big reason to try to force the same mod into a newer version and with 1.9's mechanics it could not be the same anyway.

You have already been replacing mechanics that dissatisfied you with your own ones to the point at which telling that what I am playing used to be 1.7 is actually pretty difficult.

I mean if Mojang cared about backwards compatibility then TFC2 would not be a thing and TFC would be around 90% (or rather 110%) of what it is right now.

 

I just think TFC2 is so different from TFC that it may have a different type of fans and give those a not better, not worse, but very different experience than TFC. Like giving someone AE2 instead of IC2. He might like both or neither, but he will pretty surely not think they are about the same.

(Aside from the new collapse physics we've been shown, from what I've seen they are strictly cool and pretty sure all TFC players love those)

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The funny thing is that I know full well that TFC2 will have a great deal in common with TFC1, even if the flow itself is a bit different. I just can't seem to convince anyone else of this.

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24 minutes ago, Bioxx said:

The funny thing is that I know full well that TFC2 will have a great deal in common with TFC1, even if the flow itself is a bit different. I just can't seem to convince anyone else of this.

Well, you are speaking from a creator perspective, so you probably see it different than we. When I see post about teleportation, or only one rock type per island this don't sound for me like minecraft at all with freedom of building and possibility of choosing to stay relatively in one place and working from it but rather like some RPG achievements game with by default closed options. And I don't like it at all. So maybe things, that other users say are also about this feeling, that it isn't minecraft anymore.

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Well, diameter of 4k of same rock it is approximately 1 giga of same type of rock, in my opinion it is a leap backward if compared to current vanilla minecraft with different types of stone

Why not allow to have at least 2 layers of rocks, depending on biome type and (geo)logically distributed?

For example some type of top  sedimentary rock and bottom metamorfic rocks, separated by layer of underground water pools, or top volcanic extrusive stone and bottom intrusive one, separated by underground lava pools. Additionally third layer bonus would be available in case of high mountains.

Edited by ciekma
calculations typo
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6 hours ago, Narmo said:

 When I see post about teleportation, or only one rock type per island this don't sound for me like minecraft at all with freedom of building and possibility of choosing to stay relatively in one place and working from it but rather like some RPG achievements game with by default closed options.

To be fair, TFC1 was never setup to allow you to stay in one place.

 

2 hours ago, ciekma said:

Well, diameter of 4k of same rock it is approximately 1 giga of same type of rock, in my opinion it is a leap backward if compared to current vanilla minecraft with different types of stone

Why not allow to have at least 2 layers of rocks, depending on biome type and (geo)logically distributed?

For example some type of top  sedimentary rock and bottom metamorfic rocks, separated by layer of underground water pools, or top volcanic extrusive stone and bottom intrusive one, separated by underground lava pools. Additionally third layer bonus would be available in case of high mountains.

 I opted out of a second layer, in part, so that I could properly have sprawling ore veins that consist of many thousands of blocks that spread out across the island. If a second layer were in the mix, this would honestly severely hamper me from creating the desired experience for mining and caving.

TFC2 is all about streamlining (not simplifying) different aspects. TFC1 was an absolute mess that started as a mod about one thing and very quickly spiraled out of control into other areas without any pre-planning or direction. Many aspects of TFC2 were, in one form or another, plans for TFC1. The problem was that TFC1 relied so heavily on certain assumptions about vanilla MC that it was next to impossible to achieve the desired effects. 

The climate system for instance was a ton of work. Sometimes it worked well but often enough there were major limitations. Deserts and rainforests are a prime example. Once you reached that latitude, as everyone knows, you'll hit a wall of trees in a straight line for thousands of blocks. I'm probably just a perfectionist and it may not bother you guys but things like that really really irritate me. Enter the pregenerated island maps. They solve all of my worldgen concerns. But then I have to ask myself, do I want to let players freely traverse the entire world? Well sure I could have boats enabled by default and just let them figure it out themselves, or I could try and provide some sort of structure to their play with soft objectives so that there is a purpose to continue teching up beyond copper (which many players will probably agree is a problem with tfc1). 

At the end of the day, you guys will just have to play the finished product and decide for yourselves.

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10 minutes ago, Bioxx said:

To be fair, TFC1 was never setup to allow you to stay in one place.

 

 I opted out of a second layer, in part, so that I could properly have sprawling ore veins that consist of many thousands of blocks that spread out across the island. If a second layer were in the mix, this would honestly severely hamper me from creating the desired experience for mining and caving.

TFC2 is all about streamlining (not simplifying) different aspects. TFC1 was an absolute mess that started as a mod about one thing and very quickly spiraled out of control into other areas without any pre-planning or direction. Many aspects of TFC2 were, in one form or another, plans for TFC1. The problem was that TFC1 relied so heavily on certain assumptions about vanilla MC that it was next to impossible to achieve the desired effects. 

The climate system for instance was a ton of work. Sometimes it worked well but often enough there were major limitations. Deserts and rainforests are a prime example. Once you reached that latitude, as everyone knows, you'll hit a wall of trees in a straight line for thousands of blocks. I'm probably just a perfectionist and it may not bother you guys but things like that really really irritate me. Enter the pregenerated island maps. They solve all of my worldgen concerns. But then I have to ask myself, do I want to let players freely traverse the entire world? Well sure I could have boats enabled by default and just let them figure it out themselves, or I could try and provide some sort of structure to their play with soft objectives so that there is a purpose to continue teching up beyond copper (which many players will probably agree is a problem with tfc1). 

At the end of the day, you guys will just have to play the finished product and decide for yourselves.

Really? I thought it was made so that being able to stay in one place is a desirable endgame goal. To make your own little paradise and to make it something great, because it is very difficult to do...even though many places have all you technically need in order to advance and you can't even starve.

Also is there anybody here who did not like the idea of stone layers?

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I should rephrase, TFC1 was never setup to allow you to have absolutely everything you needed in one location. Exploration was a requirement. Something that I want to push even more for TFC2. If you choose to live permanently on the starting island, you can. You'll just have to travel further to get some things.

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30 minutes ago, Bioxx said:

The climate system for instance was a ton of work. Sometimes it worked well but often enough there were major limitations. Deserts and rainforests are a prime example. Once you reached that latitude, as everyone knows, you'll hit a wall of trees in a straight line for thousands of blocks. I'm probably just a perfectionist and it may not bother you guys but things like that really really irritate me. Enter the pregenerated island maps. They solve all of my worldgen concerns. But then I have to ask myself, do I want to let players freely traverse the entire world? Well sure I could have boats enabled by default and just let them figure it out themselves, or I could try and provide some sort of structure to their play with soft objectives so that there is a purpose to continue teching up beyond copper (which many players will probably agree is a problem with tfc1). 

At the end of the day, you guys will just have to play the finished product and decide for yourselves.

Actually I also don't like these neverending rainforests so I agree with you on this one. But please, if you want to gave us teleportation system, don't disable another ways of transport like boats. Allow us decide which metod we want to use.

Edited by Narmo
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I can't help but feel like TFC2 won't be nearly as immersive as TFC now, but I guess I can only wait and see.

Or maybe I'm just neophobic.

Edited by Shirolol
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Lots of deja-vu going on in this thread.  Wanted to post some links so that maybe some people can catch up on how this has all been discussed in the past.:

- Elemental Damage thread, 17 August 2015 - Bioxx first reveals the plans for progressive island hopping.  Re-reading it I see that the region sizes are 4096x4096, so I guess a 4k island is possible, given how close those screenshots above get to the region border!  He also reveals that progression will be pretty strictly limited, in terms of the player not being able to 'settle' on an island till it has been pacified.

- Clothing thread 18 August 2015 - Bioxx first mentions that islands will be one rock type, though not that it will be just 64 deep and have only one layer.  Doesn't elicit much comment in that thread - I personally assumed at that time that sea level would still be 150-ish.

- Regional Difficulty Thread, 27 August 2015 -Bioxx reveals more about the progression of difficulty east-west, and regional forts.  At bottom of first page I express reservations about the nature of this island progression and limited resource design forcing the player to pull up stakes and move their base a lot.   It is revealed that 'not being able to settle' an island till pacified means strict prohibition of block breaking and placing.  Climatic regions are revealed.  But mostly people argue about how forbidding block placing and breaking affects combat. 

- Boats and Ships Thread, 5th September 2015 - The notion of teleporting between islands is revealed, and discussed at length.  Bioxx states that NPCs & their settlements are an open topic for TFC2.  Kitty first states that chisels and planks will not be a thing in TFC2.

- Future of Chisels and Planks thread, 17 September 2015 - I hope for an elaboration on what kitty meant in her statement in the boats thread.  It is revealed in the end that chisels and planks may be possible in TFC2, maybe, but are not a priority.

- Encumbrance Thread, 13 Nov 2015 - Bioxx initiates discussion over the notion of encumbrance, wherein the notion of making building materials have weight, to incentivize use of minecarts is mooted. 

 

So that is kind of a summary of some of the important topics regarding world-gen, and the nature of where TFC2 is headed.   I realize some people are probably new and haven't seen those threads, but some have seen them, and shouldn't be surprised.  I included the chisels and planks thread because it was at that point that it became clear to me that maybe TFC2 will be less about building than TFC1, and more action oriented.  And the encumbrance thread reinforced the notion to me.  There's several factors that are or have the potential of making building less free-wheeling that it is in TFC1:

- regional forbidding of block-placing and destroying till fortresses are conquered

- Metals progression requiring island hopping, possibly requiring a lot of base moving

- possible absence of planks and chisels

- encumbrance possibly making transportation of building materials somewhat labor intensive - this however can probably easily be changed by those who don't like it, by simply making stone and wood weightless again via some simple changes.  I'm guessing this will be the very first mod out for TFC2.

- The fact that one island will have one stone type - and limited tree types - making importation of different stones and woods a bit more onerous, exacerbated by the encumbrance factor. 

Some of these things could be alleviated if there were npc merchants dealing in stone and wood.  But the fact still remains, that at least to me it has been apparent for some time that TFC2 will probably not be the building paradise of TFC1.  The signs have been there for awhile now.   That said, I am working right now in my limited capacity to help the devs make TFC2 the best game it can be.  And I am pretty confident that once TFC2 reaches it's full features, nobody is going to still be playing TFC1. 

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I think we all agree it's going to be *different*.

Whatever TFC2 turns out to be, I plan on giving it the benefit of the doubt and try my damndest to really enjoy myself playing it.


If that fails, (which I honestly doubt) I'll just go back to playing TFC1 - with which I am quite happy (although there are a few things I gripe about).

 

Keep up the good work, Devs!

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12 hours ago, Kittychanley said:

The way portals are currently planned is that there is a single one in the middle of the island. Going through that takes you to another dimension that is nothing more a + shape path in each of the cardinal directions, with a portal at the end of each of the paths that takes you to the island in that direction.

Edit: Scratch that, it was the old plan for portals or at least how I understood it when Bioxx and I were first discussing it. The actual portal system is like you described, it's on the edge of the island and will take you to the edge of the adjacent island. Basically replacing the about 500 block ocean travel that will not be possible to do by default.

How the portals get unlocked so you can use them is a whole other thing entirely that hasn't been completely decided on yet.

Thanks Kitty.

But the problem remains, with some luck we can have access to 5 different stones one in the center and one for each cardinal point. Anything else will mean having to cross the entire Island to reach the next one.

Would it be possible to have some talk on the reasoning behind one stone type per Island? 

like, is that a game decision or a coding decision? What are the benefits and the problems arriving from that?

One of the things that I really liked about tfc was the attempt to make each ore spawn in its corresponding real life stone type. Since I am no geologist I just have to believe that the stones listed in the tfc wiki are the best approximation to that.

Per the wiki we have 11 stone types that can spawn Native Copper, Tetrahedrite or Malachite. That means that if we are to maintain any resemblance to that the first Island would need to be of one of those and not any other.

If I understood the new mod premise that each Island is harder than the previous, the first Island need to be a copper spawning stone so the player can evolve technology enough to make a copper armor and weapons before going to the next Island.

In a way I like that idea, as it would force the player to evolve the metals in a linear way, and take advantage of each improvement possible for armor and weapons.

The problem I see is on the aspect of a true sandbox minecraft experience.

Survival or creative, the main appeal of minecraft is the freedom do create beautiful constructions.

TFC is one of the best in terms of all the new blocks it adds to the game, specially combined with the survival aspect that makes the player proud to show his/her buildings and brag about how much work was involved in obtaining those blocks.

How many times have we heard someone say: Yes, I had to travel 10000 blocks to get the marble for my castle. Had to fight a bear and almost die.

In a way the idea of an adventure map attracts me, but not if that's all there is to the new mod. 

Why is it that we are all still playing Minecraft even after so many years? 

One of the answers is in the fact that you cannot really win the game. You are never really done with it. And when playing in collaborative multiplayer you can really build some fantastic buildings.

I do not have the solutions for this, am just pointing some concerns in the hope others can help.  

 

 

 

 

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I would say that most of those concerns probably aren't valid Tony. 

I briefly touched on the stone layer thing earlier. I'll also add that the player no longer needs to dig core samples if there is only one layer.

We haven't really discussed ores being moved to invalid stone types. If I want Tetrahedrite to appear on tier 0 islands, I can simply tell the WorldGen to make sure that at least one of the 9 Tier 0 islands have metamorphic rock as a stone layer. It's as simple as that, no guessing game involved for the player. He'll still have to explore a bit to find it if the starting island isn't copper bearing, but he'll know its there. 

I do not see how any changes are restricting the player from building beautiful structures(With the exception of detailed mode and planks). Yes there is the discussion on encumbrance and transport, but as none of that is yet set in stone, its not fair to judge one way or the other as to the outcome as a whole. I like to bring out ideas to you guys that maybe i'm really interested in, but then I don't do anything with it for a few months to chew on the feedback and make an ultimate decision. Unfortunately, this has the knock on effect of perhaps misunderstanding some things.

As a side note, I've always stated that TFC doesn't respect creative mode. I want you to build things that have purpose. When I can create a system that requires you to build elaborate structures, that is exactly what I'll do. I recognize that MC is a building game, But I have never felt the need to cater to the building for the sake of building aspect of the game(I just don't enjoy it). Detailed mode and the resulting block types in TFC1 were really just an experiment that ended up becoming far bigger than intended, and they became massive headaches for me later on with multiblock structures like the blast furnace. TFC2 is a chance for me to maintain my sanity and still develop a mod that I can be proud of.

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The reasoning behind the one stone layer per island is mentioned above by Bioxx. His logic is as follows,

Quote

 I opted out of a second layer, in part, so that I could properly have sprawling ore veins that consist of many thousands of blocks that spread out across the island. If a second layer were in the mix, this would honestly severely hamper me from creating the desired experience for mining and caving.

The benefit of this system is the huge veins that Bioxx mentions. It also looks like he has plans for better mining and caving.

A problem arising from this would be the lack of stone types that you mentioned. However, I do not find this as much of an issue. I welcome the lack of materials as they force the player to try new things. Personally, I find copy and pasting a house everywhere to be a boring way to expand. This also makes a sort of realism to be building of bases in the areas. I doubt people in ancient times dragged specific kinds of trees/stones to build there homes. They likely used the local materials to protect themselves.

One example of local material usage comes from my vanilla singleplayer. The only biomes close by are birch forest and desert. Normally I would never use birch wood in general. However, because of the lack of other lumber I must use it. Sandstone is a block that I rarely use as well. Finding the right way to make these blocks go together is a fun challenge IMO. 


 

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1 hour ago, Bioxx said:

We haven't really discussed ores being moved to invalid stone types. If I want Tetrahedrite to appear on tier 0 islands, I can simply tell the WorldGen to make sure that at least one of the 9 Tier 0 islands have metamorphic rock as a stone layer. It's as simple as that, no guessing game involved for the player. He'll still have to explore a bit to find it if the starting island isn't copper bearing, but he'll know its there.

It might be a good idea to include some sort of config or other option for the player to guarantee that their starting island or one of the north-south neighboring ones is a copper bearing type, for the newbs at least?   Acacia forests can be really, really daunting, so even though there are nine islands at tier 0, depending on how the tropical and sub-tropical islands generate, you may, in a rare case, be forcing the player to scour the 3-4 islands north of the equator, find that  - bad luck - none have copper, and now they have to brave a big acacia jungle with leather and stone axe?  Maybe the Acacia doesn't cover the entire island, but for a newb it can be enough of a chore going 4k blocks, never mind maybe 8k north (assuming temperate spawn), no copper, 8k back  south to spawn, then further south.  Rare but worst case might be 40k of travel (8k north, 32k back south) to find the south pole is the only copper tier0 island.   Never mind the polar islands might be a bit tough depending on the season. 

Just saying, might want to consider newbs there.  And then people who don't want to have to spend months and months in tier0-ville could also use that setting as well.  Granted, the odds of only one of 9 islands having copper, out of 16 stone types, probably half of which spawn copper, is exceedingly slim.   But newbs be newbs, and the chances of 3 islands out of 16 stones types not having copper is higher.

Edited by Darmo
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Well that was just an example Darmo. In reality, its my plan to make sure that the starting island is viable. That way we don't have players tossing world seeds like TFC1, just because it was dry. As far as the forests, since we're on islands you can just walk along the beach to get around if needed. All portals will be pretty close to the beaches due to elevation restrictions in their spawn parameters.  So it shouldn't be the most difficult thing to find the next portal if traveling north/south.

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I have been looking for the right post to say this on.

Despite all the issues the old worldgen had I loved how realistic it felt, not realistic as in true to real life, but very close to it realistic as in it (almost) all makes perfect sense, it feels like a real world, it feels exactly how I would understand "terra firma". You are thrown into a great world. There are so many things you can do, but the game does not make them for you, they just occur in the world and if you are skilled, you can find them, that is how the "terra firma" is, tough but fair. There is always something you can do(unless the worldgen really screws you over, but checking whether you dropped the player on a small island in the dry zone is probably easier than completely rewiting everything.). I actually learned quite a bit through TFC because some things in the game, that are addressed in no other game are done so accurately that it made me curious to look it up.

While of course there is much room for improvement, isn't this what you wanted to achieve?

TFC2 as you are describing it probably wouldn't feel like that at all. You are making it very clear that the world is being conveniently and considerately generated around the player and with all it has just for the player with a very clear and narrow progression path laid out for the player(Yes, TFC also has some very ovious progression barriers, but aside from the amount of anvils you need I find them very believable), oceans are merely an annoyance, nobody will ever set foot into them unless they are bored or want salty water.

Is this what you wanted TFC to be from the start?

Excuse my neophobia, but I just recently discovered TFC, absolutely loved it so far and then found out that apparently the developers are tired of what they did with it and want to make something completely different.

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6 hours ago, Bioxx said:

 I opted out of a second layer, in part, so that I could properly have sprawling ore veins that consist of many thousands of blocks that spread out across the island. If a second layer were in the mix, this would honestly severely hamper me from creating the desired experience for mining and caving.

Are those ore veins vertical or rather horizontal? I played with Custom Ore Generation+Harder Ores or Enviromine, with physics turned on, and I enjoyed 'experience of mining' in case of huge horizontal veins, with clash of feeling safety and greed instinct (should I leave this pillar of rich ore or risk collapse of whole cavern?)

Nevertheless, I didn't suggest, that both layers should have similar thickness - upper layer would be thinner. Additionally, some stone types would have different hardness, and therefore require better tools to efficient digging (for example, bronze pickaxe is good for breaking chalk, but would break if heavily used to dig into basalt layer.

5 hours ago, Darmo said:

Lots of deja-vu going on in this thread.  Wanted to post some links so that maybe some people can catch up on how this has all been discussed in the past.:

Darmo, thank you for this comprehensive summary, I read these articles and very like overall idea with 'level up' islands. By the way, my idea with two layers, if bottom layer requires higher tier of tools but have rich ores, would give point to travel back to previous island to explore it better, instead linear scenario.

Only one thing bugs me out: "Before an island is pacified, building/living there should be impossible."  Somebody suggested, that it would be not possible to place blocks, something like spawn protection? I hope it is not true, because it would be a very bad feature. I would expect rather that mobs will be enough smart and poverfull, to overcome my base, for example use ladders (or even place own ladders), breaking blocks etc. Did I said about two stone layers with different hardness?...

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47 minutes ago, Shirolol said:

Excuse my neophobia, but I just recently discovered TFC, absolutely loved it so far and then found out that apparently the developers are tired of what they did with it and want to make something completely different.

Keep in mind that even though you've just recently discovered TFC, the mod has been around for over four years. When you work on something for that long you do reach a point where starting over on something new is infinitely more appealing than trying to hack into the current convoluted system to get something partially working the way you invisioned it.

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I, for one, is in complete support of TFC2's direction. I completely understand that TFC2 is going to be different with TFC1, and I am happy with that.

 

Building has not been my main concern, save for a basic base for storage, shelter, and sustenance. While Minecraft's main point is freedom to make beautiful constructions, I'd like it even better if I know that building a wonder in TFC2 is more of a challenge. It would be even better if the wonder is fully functional, not just for decorum (pardon my utilitarian thought).

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10 hours ago, Miner239 said:

I, for one, is in complete support of TFC2's direction. I completely understand that TFC2 is going to be different with TFC1, and I am happy with that.

 

Building has not been my main concern, save for a basic base for storage, shelter, and sustenance. While Minecraft's main point is freedom to make beautiful constructions, I'd like it even better if I know that building a wonder in TFC2 is more of a challenge. It would be even better if the wonder is fully functional, not just for decorum (pardon my utilitarian thought).

I entierly agree with this statement (though I enjoy building just for the sake of having lots of pretty buildings all over the place).

I find that most of the time my bases are temporary until I have the tools to build a better one, so I really don't mind if my starter house is made of the same brick. Even more so, I'd be really proud of having a multi-stone house considering all the effort it takes to make it (really really looking forwards to encumbrance, and possibly horse driven carts for stone transportation). Even in TFC1, I quite happily travel thousands of blocks just for one particular stone type. If the buildings I build are also functionnal, even better.

But whatever Bioxx's decision regarding TFC2, I'm up for it. If something needs changing it can always be changed in an update.

Edited by Donjons
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I'm a little confused about the need to have huge sprawling ore veins in a single rock type on a island at least 2000x2000. First of all, i assume the ores are still restricted to the rock type they belong in. So for copper, some rock types just wont have it and the player must go to another island to find the rock type that has it. Then it is guaranteed to find copper of course. Secondly, some rock types have multiple ores that can generate in them, so will this remain? One rock type - one ore type per island is probably too restrictive. Finally, the player finds a huge ore vein at some island, maybe there are more huge veins..so it will be trivial to find, but then how much ore would the player possibly need to advance? Even in TFC1 for me 1-2 veins of rich ore was enough to progress a tier. I can only imagine more ore will be needed for smelting than ever before, to produce a single piece of armour for example. 

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In TFC1, the gaps between stone, copper and bronze are all quite small - then to iron it's reasonably large, but to steel (viz the blast furnace) it's huge... Then there's the silliness of 'coloured steel'...

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I think the size of veins in an island would be that big to accommodate for servers, so that they would not run out of newb-ore for long. Won't be fun if you take 'Mine' out of your 'Minecraft' first hours in a server. Even when you play singleplayer, you now know that your source of that type of metal would never run out once you find one.

 

I envisioned that the progress of metal in TFC2 would be different than TFC1, partly because of the end-game procedural alloy (endless game ahoy!).

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Remains to be seen if we'll ultimately go that route Miner. Procedural metals is still on the table, but I'm still mulling over that feature.

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