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      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
logwet

Burning animal fat for fuel / Alternative light sources

51 posts in this topic

Have you read, understood, and followed all of the rules listed in large text at the top of the suggestions forum?(Yes/No): Yes
Answering "no" to the above question will result in your post being deleted.

Hi all, this is my first time on the forums so please excuse and remind me if I don't meet forum etiquette and if my suggestion has already been suggested, please remove it.

After casually playing TFC1 single-player over the past couple of months, I've found oil lamps to be immensely useful in terms as a long burning light source. (Please note, this suggestion assumes that oil lamps or a similar alternative will be implemented in TFC2 and I know that there is a chance they will not. If this suggesting if better suited for the TFC1 suggestion forum, please notify me.) However, due to olives only being in season and ready for harvest only for a short period in late summer, I've found that ensuring I have enough olives to act as my light source for the whole year somewhat of a challenge.

I propose that an alternative fuel source for oil lamps (or any other similar oil burning contraption) be implemented - Animal fats. (Please note, this is also assuming that in TFC2 animals will drop meat.)

When an animal is slayed, it would drop meat as normal. However, this meat would be different to current TFC1 meat in one way, it has saturated animal fats. 

To remove this fat, there could be a similar mechanic to the TFC1 decay trimming technique. After trimming fat, you would be left with two by products, lean meat and saturated fats. The lean meat could be consumed as normal and the fat could be directly burned as normal.

In addition, animal fat solidifies, unlike vegetable oil. Perhaps the trimmed fat could be processed with heat to extract the raw saturated fat, and this could be further processed into candles. 

The advantage of this over vegetable oil is is that animal fat is avaliable all year round and if the fat can be processed just using Stone Age or casting age methods/materials there is no need to forge a hopper.

I welcome contribution and criticism; please post your thoughts below!

Edited by logwet
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I like it.  I think using tallow to make candles is a good idea.  Makes animals more useful, and also string.  Candles could burn longer than torches, but not as long as olive oil.    And then, maybe some animals yield blubber (mostly in the arctic) which when processed might yield an oil equivalent to olive oil.

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16 minutes ago, Darmo said:

I like it.  I think using tallow to make candles is a good idea.  Makes animals more useful, and also string.  Candles could burn longer than torches, but not as long as olive oil.    And then, maybe some animals yield blubber (mostly in the arctic) which when processed might yield an oil equivalent to olive oil.

Looking at the development forum, it appears that arctic animals like walruses will be added. These could be a great source of fat and blubber. However, you mentioned that candles wouldn't burn as long as olive oil; doesn't animal fats hold more energy than vegetable oil? This isn't a subject that I'm particularly experienced at, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

However, if animal fats do burn for longer than oil, perhaps it will make them OP because all you have to do is to kill an animal. Therefore, here is how I believe it should be structured:

1. Animal fats can be crudely extracted when cooking the meat. When the meat is heated, the fat will just drip off and be collected. To burn the fats, just dip a stick in the fat and light it; this produces a crude fat torch. The fact is, I find the fact that you can simply pick up a stick, light it and it will burn for 8 hours without any other fuel apart from wood unbelievable. I propose that TFC1 torches be replaced with sticks dipped in animal fats.

2. Instead of melting the fat off, the fat can be trimmed off. This method extracts more fat from the meat but doesn't melt it. In solid form, you can just put the trimmed pieces into a clay dish, put a stick or string, and light it. (A crude candle) This would burn for longer than an animal fat torch and would also let off more light.

3. After trimming the fat, you could also process it (perhaps by smoking it with a bucket underneath). This would result in pure, unadulterated saturated fat. You can use this fat in two ways, by melting it and pouring it into a bowl (Creating a fat candle that would last for longer than a crude fat candle, and let off more light.) or by again melting it and putting it into a metal shell. This would form an advanced fat candle. The shell could be cast out of copper, for example, and could be used again many times after the fat  inside has been burnt. The shell would randomly break after 6 full uses. The advanced fat candle would last as long as the current TFC1 oil lantern lasts, but would let off less light. However, when you put the candle into a lantern, it would give off the same light for the same time as a lantern with oil.

I believe that replaces the current TFC1 "Stick" torches with fat ones, it will make the game more believable and closer to what cavemen used in the real Stone Age. In addition. By making it so that advanced fat candles require a cast shell to be made, and crude fat candles and fat candles require a clay bowl and string, I think that it will balance the game so animal fats don't become OP.

Please comment, contribute to, or criticise the points I have outlined above.

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Tallow candles are already a thing in the TFCMisc addon - animals drop suet (fat), which is then put in a ceramic bowl and melted.  When you add a piece of wool yarn, you get tallow candles...

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2 minutes ago, ChunkHunter said:

Tallow candles are already a thing in the TFCMisc addon - animals drop suet (fat), which is then put in a ceramic bowl and melted.  When you add a piece of wool yarn, you get tallow candles...

Oh :wacko: sorry, I didn't know that. Does Bioxx have any plans for implementing candles like the ones in TerraMisc in TFC2?

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5 hours ago, logwet said:

Oh :wacko: sorry, I didn't know that. Does Bioxx have any plans for implementing candles like the ones in TerraMisc in TFC2?

If it doesn't get added to TFC2, I'll probably come around and make a TerraMisc2. :) Currently, I haven't heard much about lighting in TFC2, but the people that compile wip versions off of github probably know more about what is going on than I do.

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One of the things we are missing in TFC is the ability to heat containers. 

As long as there is a process involved in making candles they would not be OP.

I have no idea what steps are involved in making a candle from animal fat, but I am pretty sure it involves more than grabbing fat and string together and the candle magically appear in your hand.

For starters you need to melt the fat, best done in a double boiler.

You also need a container and off course the wick.

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5 minutes ago, Powerman913717 said:

If it doesn't get added to TFC2, I'll probably come around and make a TerraMisc2. :) Currently, I haven't heard much about lighting in TFC2, but the people that compile wip versions off of github probably know more about what is going on than I do.

Thanks! I've looked at your addon - It's awesome! I look forward to TerraMisc2!

If it isn't too obtrusive, may I please ask how much relative effort went into implementing suet, tallow and candles? It would give me a tough idea of how complex/difficult to implement what I am suggesting will be.

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8 minutes ago, TonyLiberatto said:

One of the things we are missing in TFC is the ability to heat containers. 

As long as there is a process involved in making candles they would not be OP.

I have no idea what steps are involved in making a candle from animal fat, but I am pretty sure it involves more than grabbing fat and string together and the candle magically appear in your hand.

For starters you need to melt the fat, best done in a double boiler.

You also need a container and off course the wick.

You're entirely correct, there does need to be some processing in order to balance the game a little more, but the question is what 'era' should it be avaliable in? Stone Age, Casting age, or even the Iron Age.

Personally, I believe that (as outline above) the current torches that are just sticks on fire should be replaced with sticks dipped in crudely molten fat. This would make it a lot more believable than just a stick than can burn for 8 hours. For this reason, I believe that these 'fat' torches and some sort of crude candle (also made from crudely molten fat) should be avaliable in the Stone Age. This crude molten fat could just be (as outlined above) collected by cooking meat.

However, the higher 'tiered' candles would require the player to reach Casting Age, perhaps in order to cast a copper container.

In addition, after some further thinking I believe that some sort of wax could be used as a fuel as well. Beeswax, perhaps? The idea of using waxes really does need fleshing out so I'd appreciate it if you guys could list your ideas.

Again, contribution and criticism is welcome.

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7 hours ago, logwet said:

Thanks! I've looked at your addon - It's awesome! I look forward to TerraMisc2!

If it isn't too obtrusive, may I please ask how much relative effort went into implementing suet, tallow and candles? It would give me a tough idea of how complex/difficult to implement what I am suggesting will be.

 

It really wasn't hard, the most difficult part was the candles themselves. This wouldn't be tough for an experienced modder, or for me now, as I've had more practice with tile entities. The difficulty is hard to judge now though because a lot of things are uncertain with TFC2 and how it would implement lighting.

Edited by Powerman913717
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logwet, what you say about the relative burn lengths of animal and vegetable oils and so forth may be true.  But I think it should be more about game balance than realism.  TFC olive oil requires a ton of time to squeeze out.  In a multiplayer environment it's made more difficult because you have to actually be present when your olives ripen.  Since a real life 24 hour day is half a TFC year, it's not hard to miss that time period.  And then you also have to be in the iron age at least, for the hopper.  The entire process is so tedious I don't bother with it on the server I play on.

Things like tallow, blubber, and wax, could be more controllable, since you can slaughter your animals at any time of year (as opposed to narrow olive harvest window) and processing would likely be MUCH faster than olive oil.  Beeswax would be similar - you could harvest that wax anytime, though it might require a bit of timing if you want to keep a sustainable hive population going, and bees only spread at certain times of year.  It is also logical for candles to give off less light.  But there is a balance to be struck.  If they give off too little light nobody will ever use them, except as decoration.  Depends on how the devs decide it would work.  A lower light level candle that burns a very long time might be attractive only in the player's home, since the player returns there a lot.  They almost certainly would not be attractive for caving or exploring.  I think the difference should be very slight, because at some point the player just isn't going to want to bother with tons and tons of candles.  Personally I'd be fine with candles giving off MORE light than torches.  I think it's better to give good game progression, than try to be overly realistic. 

Requiring torches involve animal fat, to me would be perhaps a bit much.  In the early game animals can be a bit rare.  Though in TFC2 it might be they are more common, idk.  Again, depends on if the devs want to make stone age torches harder to get.  I do think it's a bit silly that one can just use a stick as a torch.   Perhaps it might be useful to have a regular torch, where the player adds a piece of thatch - or a thatch block - to a stick, to get the torch.  This type of torch would NOT be relightable.  There could also be a tallow torch, that could be relightable as torches are now.

So, the lighting tiers from lowest to highest might be:

torch - made of thatch and stick.  Cannot be re-lit

tallow torch - made of a torch and tallow.  Unlimited relighting like current TFC1 torches.

candle - tallow & yarn.  May involve some process or time factor.  Lasts longer than tallow torch.  Might have some light difference.

blubber oil lamp - requires blubber rendering to oil, which is faster than olive oil.  Doesn't burn as long as olive oil.  Limited by animals mostly being arctic.

olive oil lamp - more time consuming to process, and only can be gotten at specific time of year, but can be grown in many regions.  Requires iron

jackolantern - infinite light, but takes up a block space.  Also ugly.

Lava lamp - inifinite and very bright light.  Requires blue steel

None of that even takes into account alchemy.  If alchemy got into the game, there could be all sorts of processes to increase duration and brightness of various light sources.  Also, it seems quite likely that "blue steel" won't be in, though other high tier metals will be.  Personally I'd love to see TFC2 ditch silly notions like carrying lava in a bucket, and putting it in a lamp.  I'd like to see magic become the new top tier lighting avenue.  But that's just me.

Oh, and I'd of course like to see the extraction of animal fat be incorporated into a butchery system of some kind.  I apologize for how that butchering post looks - all my spoilers got removed in the forum conversion and since I can't delete spoilers in the new forum, I don't really want to screw it up further.

 

 

Edited by Darmo
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I don't believe that processing animal fat into tallow should be too laborious in game.
After all, making olive oil from olives probably requires a bit more processing than simply squeezing out olives - doesn't it.

For information - I used to live in a town where there was a working tallow works.
Sheep carcasses would be delivered, then they would be skinned, and rendered down into fat and other stuff - The process absolutely stinks! 

(Not that I'm advocating an antisocial stink when processing animal fat into tallow!)

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6 hours ago, Darmo said:

logwet, what you say about the relative burn lengths of animal and vegetable oils and so forth may be true.  But I think it should be more about game balance than realism.  TFC olive oil requires a ton of time to squeeze out.  In a multiplayer environment it's made more difficult because you have to actually be present when your olives ripen.  Since a real life 24 hour day is half a TFC year, it's not hard to miss that time period.  And then you also have to be in the iron age at least, for the hopper.  The entire process is so tedious I don't bother with it on the server I play on.

Things like tallow, blubber, and wax, could be more controllable, since you can slaughter your animals at any time of year (as opposed to narrow olive harvest window) and processing would likely be MUCH faster than olive oil.  Beeswax would be similar - you could harvest that wax anytime, though it might require a bit of timing if you want to keep a sustainable hive population going, and bees only spread at certain times of year.  It is also logical for candles to give off less light.  But there is a balance to be struck.  If they give off too little light nobody will ever use them, except as decoration.  Depends on how the devs decide it would work.  A lower light level candle that burns a very long time might be attractive only in the player's home, since the player returns there a lot.  They almost certainly would not be attractive for caving or exploring.  I think the difference should be very slight, because at some point the player just isn't going to want to bother with tons and tons of candles.  Personally I'd be fine with candles giving off MORE light than torches.  I think it's better to give good game progression, than try to be overly realistic. 

Requiring torches involve animal fat, to me would be perhaps a bit much.  In the early game animals can be a bit rare.  Though in TFC2 it might be they are more common, idk.  Again, depends on if the devs want to make stone age torches harder to get.  I do think it's a bit silly that one can just use a stick as a torch.   Perhaps it might be useful to have a regular torch, where the player adds a piece of thatch - or a thatch block - to a stick, to get the torch.  This type of torch would NOT be relightable.  There could also be a tallow torch, that could be relightable as torches are now.

So, the lighting tiers from lowest to highest might be:

torch - made of thatch and stick.  Cannot be re-lit

tallow torch - made of a torch and tallow.  Unlimited relighting like current TFC1 torches.

candle - tallow & yarn.  May involve some process or time factor.  Lasts longer than tallow torch.  Might have some light difference.

blubber oil lamp - requires blubber rendering to oil, which is faster than olive oil.  Doesn't burn as long as olive oil.  Limited by animals mostly being arctic.

olive oil lamp - more time consuming to process, and only can be gotten at specific time of year, but can be grown in many regions.  Requires iron

jackolantern - infinite light, but takes up a block space.  Also ugly.

Lava lamp - inifinite and very bright light.  Requires blue steel

None of that even takes into account alchemy.  If alchemy got into the game, there could be all sorts of processes to increase duration and brightness of various light sources.  Also, it seems quite likely that "blue steel" won't be in, though other high tier metals will be.  Personally I'd love to see TFC2 ditch silly notions like carrying lava in a bucket, and putting it in a lamp.  I'd like to see magic become the new top tier lighting avenue.  But that's just me.

Oh, and I'd of course like to see the extraction of animal fat be incorporated into a butchery system of some kind.  I apologize for how that butchering post looks - all my spoilers got removed in the forum conversion and since I can't delete spoilers in the new forum, I don't really want to screw it up further.

 

 

I agree with you. I didn't actually think of a stick with straw or thatch on top but I think that it would be a very balanced torch. In addition, my suggestion of three tiers of candles was probably also overkill.

The structure you have outlined so far is (in my opinion) is the best one so far, and I will use it as the basis for any further posts.

I think now that candles, tallow and suet should all be Stone Age resources and also should be very crude. When you start of in TFC2 (let's pretend suet, tallow and candles have been added to the game) One of the first things you want to do is butcher an animal, trim of its suet and extract the tallow by melting it off. Now you have long lasting, relightable candles and torches. Tallow candles would probably be your main lightsource in the casting age while your trying to set up a farm/beehive for olives and beeswax. Towards the end of the copper age and at the start of the Iron Age you would start using blubber oil as a light source, which is harder to extract than tallow. Blubber oil would burn for less time than but at the same brightness as TFC1 olive oil lamps, but because arctic animals are hard to find and to extract their blubber, you'd soon want to move on. In the middle of the Iron Age (When you have a hopper for extracting Olive oil) you'd switch to olive oil and beeswax which have long burn times and high litchi levels.

As always, I implore you to contribute or criticise my idea.

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If blubber and blubber oil (as Darmo has suggested) was to be incorporated into the game, I would be worthwhile to discuss:

  • The spawn frequency of arctic animals and thus how easy they would be to find
  • How much blubber can be cut off
  • How much oil can be extracted from said blubber
  • Where exactly should blubber sit on the resource tree (See the comment above for my rendition)

In addition, it would also be worthwhile to discuss how animal fat (suet) can be trimmed of animals, and how tallow can be extracted:

  • A system similar to the one in TFC1 for trimming mould?
  • Integrated into the suggested new Butchering System?
  • Similar to the scraping system for leather preparation?
  • Requiring a specialised tool perhaps?

More importantly, it is essential that as a community, we establish a generally accepted resource 'tree'. This tree will dictate what ages certain resources should be avaliable to the player. I (as outlined in the above comment) believe that suet, tallow and candles should be avaliable in the Stone Age but I'm sure that not everyone has this opinion. By setting rules for when certain things should be avaliable, it will make it easier to balance suet, tallow, blubber, beeswax and candles so they aren't OP.

Please comment your thoughts on the points outlined above.

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I dont like making this sugestión, but it seems necessary: make torches capable of burning wood.

I know that it would be pain to lose them as lighting sources inside the houses, but it make sense (who is going to put a torch In his hut?!) and also make candels worth doing.

Because of this, candels and oil lamps act as interior lighting. They are "expensive" and provide less light, but in a house you dont need that many, and also the spaces are smaller, so no great lighting needed. However, torches are available for easy and powerful light In the caves but are not reusable. Torches with tallows serve as powerful lighting that can be reused, although are more expensive. This will make them perfect for outdoor lighting for gardens or paths and Castles, made of stone and fire resistant.

Any ideas?

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18 minutes ago, lJuanGB said:

I dont like making this sugestión, but it seems necessary: make torches capable of burning wood.

I know that it would be pain to lose them as lighting sources inside the houses, but it make sense (who is going to put a torch In his hut?!) and also make candels worth doing.

Because of this, candels and oil lamps act as interior lighting. They are "expensive" and provide less light, but in a house you dont need that many, and also the spaces are smaller, so no great lighting needed. However, torches are available for easy and powerful light In the caves but are not reusable. Torches with tallows serve as powerful lighting that can be reused, although are more expensive. This will make them perfect for outdoor lighting for gardens or paths and Castles, made of stone and fire resistant.

Any ideas?

You could make your own topic with this. I would enjoy this feature, the huds at the time were also pretty badly illuminated.

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6 hours ago, lJuanGB said:

I dont like making this sugestión, but it seems necessary: make torches capable of burning wood.

I know that it would be pain to lose them as lighting sources inside the houses, but it make sense (who is going to put a torch In his hut?!) and also make candels worth doing.

Because of this, candels and oil lamps act as interior lighting. They are "expensive" and provide less light, but in a house you dont need that many, and also the spaces are smaller, so no great lighting needed. However, torches are available for easy and powerful light In the caves but are not reusable. Torches with tallows serve as powerful lighting that can be reused, although are more expensive. This will make them perfect for outdoor lighting for gardens or paths and Castles, made of stone and fire resistant.

Any ideas?

I don't see what you are criticising; what we are suggesting is not to remove pure wooden torches, but to instead replace them with sticks binded in straw or thatch. They would burn for 8 hours but wouldn't be reusable. 

Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying :wacko:

Edited by logwet
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33 minutes ago, lJuanGB said:

make torches capable of burning wood.

So placing in a torch on a wooden surface has a chance to start it on fire.  Interesting.  I like how it creates a use separation between torches and candles.  

It might also be interesting to have torches create soot stains on blocks around them, and in a line above. Like how lava generates sulfur.  Though that might be a burdensome amount of surface entities in some cases...   Soot takes forever to remove, except with a bar of soap (while we're in the animal fat subject) which removes it instantly.  So torches in home would also cause ugly stains.  To keep people from breaking the block that has the soot entity to get rid of the soot, if a 'finished' block has a soot stain, and the player breaks the block without removing the soot, nothing drops.  The block is ruined.  But this only applies to 'finished' blocks.  Natural stone , ore blocks, and other 'natural' stuff  are fine.  Breaking them just deletes the soot and drops whatever they're supposed to drop normally.  This might require some hocus-pocus code though, to make the finished blocks not drop when stained. 

Maybe instead if soot is broken by hand or tools, it creates a soot cloud that blurs the player's vision, or causes them to have a status affect 'sooty' which causes any food they make or harvest to start with significant decay already on it, since the player is making food while filthy-dirty with soot.  But this is all avoided with soap, which 'breaks' the soot easily and causes no status affect.

Once you start down that road you can have other things make the player dirty, like combat, and harvesting charcoal and coal.  Possibly tanning hides.  I'm getting off topic though. 

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21 minutes ago, Darmo said:

So placing in a torch on a wooden surface has a chance to start it on fire.  Interesting.  I like how it creates a use separation between torches and candles.  

It might also be interesting to have torches create soot stains on blocks around them, and in a line above. Like how lava generates sulfur.  Though that might be a burdensome amount of surface entities in some cases...   Soot takes forever to remove, except with a bar of soap (while we're in the animal fat subject) which removes it instantly.  So torches in home would also cause ugly stains.  To keep people from breaking the block that has the soot entity to get rid of the soot, if a 'finished' block has a soot stain, and the player breaks the block without removing the soot, nothing drops.  The block is ruined.  But this only applies to 'finished' blocks.  Natural stone , ore blocks, and other 'natural' stuff  are fine.  Breaking them just deletes the soot and drops whatever they're supposed to drop normally.  This might require some hocus-pocus code though, to make the finished blocks not drop when stained. 

Maybe instead if soot is broken by hand or tools, it creates a soot cloud that blurs the player's vision, or causes them to have a status affect 'sooty' which causes any food they make or harvest to start with significant decay already on it, since the player is making food while filthy-dirty with soot.  But this is all avoided with soap, which 'breaks' the soot easily and causes no status affect.

Once you start down that road you can have other things make the player dirty, like combat, and harvesting charcoal and coal.  Possibly tanning hides.  I'm getting off topic though. 

Personally, I believe that having torches make soot stains would just be overkill. Not only would it be kinda difficult for the developers to implement the behaviours you are describing, it would also be somewhat of a waste of time because soot would be entirely aesthetic. Unless soot has any other negative consequences other than aesthetic it wouldn't be very useful for the developers to implement it. 

I agree with IJuanGB suggestion of torches just causing fires however. 

However, if the developers don't mind and if it has any other implications other than being purely aesthetic it may be worthwhile to make a seperate suggestion on this.

Edited by logwet
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Tallow. beeswax. pine resin. any sort of oil from plant extracts, and of course alcohol. all suitable for lamps and or candles. I think the base ideal is there, how we get there is a different story. and of course, remember we can just trap fairy's in jars and use them as light sources too. ;)

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I really believe candles should be available early on in game.

A bowl with animal fat inside a bowl with water on top of a fire.

Dump the melted fat in a ceramic bow with a wick and that's it.

I like the idea of having torches burning houses. It would create a division on the use of torches, so they would be used primarily for mining.

One of the things I believe should be changed is the campfire, 4 logs should be enough to burn for a whole night.

For the initial nights the campfire should provide all the light needed.

One aspect of the game that we need to remember is building decoration.

I always use the Decorations addon, even though I do agree that alcohol lamps are not realistic, but with all the metal and work involved in making them the player deserves a permanent light source.

With the game mechanics we have now even if we set torches to burn wood blocks people would still be able to use it inside as long as the building is made of stone.

What if torches would burn for 2 days and candles for 10 days?

Not sure about those numbers, just throwing them in the discussion.

One way or another we need permanent light sources. Lava lamp are so to the end of the game that by that point I usually am ready to start another world.

 

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I'd say that candles should also have a small chance to burn down wooden stuff around it when it expires so that making lamps are urged more. Open, spreading fires aren't exactly safe.

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On 26/05/2016 at 1:09 PM, TonyLiberatto said:

I really believe candles should be available early on in game.

A bowl with animal fat inside a bowl with water on top of a fire.

Dump the melted fat in a ceramic bow with a wick and that's it.

I like the idea of having torches burning houses. It would create a division on the use of torches, so they would be used primarily for mining.

One of the things I believe should be changed is the campfire, 4 logs should be enough to burn for a whole night.

For the initial nights the campfire should provide all the light needed.

One aspect of the game that we need to remember is building decoration.

I always use the Decorations addon, even though I do agree that alcohol lamps are not realistic, but with all the metal and work involved in making them the player deserves a permanent light source.

With the game mechanics we have now even if we set torches to burn wood blocks people would still be able to use it inside as long as the building is made of stone.

What if torches would burn for 2 days and candles for 10 days?

Not sure about those numbers, just throwing them in the discussion.

One way or another we need permanent light sources. Lava lamp are so to the end of the game that by that point I usually am ready to start another world.

 

TFC1 torches currently burn for 8 (edit: 48 hours) hours and I think that if we replace the pure wood torches with sticks binded in thatch that aren't relightable I think that it would be very balanced. Torches coated in tallow should burn for at least 12 hours and should be relightable. 

The next tier of light source should be very crude candles that are basically composed of a ceramic bowl with tallow inside and a string wick. It would burn for 16 hours and would be relightable. Beyond that are blubber candles, wax candles, oil lamps etc. I really don't have any plan on how those would work so I'd appreciate your thoughts.

As for a way to extract tallow from suet, I think that having to make a double boiler is kinda overkill for TFC. Personally, I believe that the player should be able to crudely extract tallow by heating the meat with a bowl underneath to collect the dripping fat. (This assumes that there will be a firepit/campfire or an other similar method of heating meat) Later in the game, the player could extract a more pure tallow from the suet, maybe by using a double boiler.

Contribute, criticise or comment!

Edited by logwet
I forgot that TFC1 torches burn for 48 hours not 8
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42 minutes ago, Miner239 said:

I'd say that candles should also have a small chance to burn down wooden stuff around it when it expires so that making lamps are urged more. Open, spreading fires aren't exactly safe.

I can understand how torches could light things on fire, after all, it's just a stick on fire that has been stuck in a wall. It could easily fall out. Candles however, are a lot safer. At its most crude form, candles would be an enclosed, controlled burn inside a ceramic bowl. Unless the bowl spills, or unless if the fumes it emits are hot enough, I can't see how it could light wood or even thatch on fire.

If torches light wood on fire, the player still needs something to light up their homes. And in the Stone Age, the player doesn't have access to stone and other non-flammable blocks. I'd prefer it if the player didn't have to constantly worry about their roof burning out when their away from home, or even worse, when their still inside.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion and others have theirs, so please contribute, criticise or comment your thoughts!

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Ya, candles burning things down does seem like overkill.  lamps would have a larger light radius than candles I'd assume, which would probably be enough incentive. 

As far as the rendering process, it seems like there's basically two steps - the cooking and the filtering.  So maybe just place a vessel containing the raw fat inside the fire pit, cook it for awhile, get back a vessel of simply fat.  Or perhaps a large clay vessel can be 'placed' above the fire, and used for the rendering.  Then filter it somehow.  End result is tallow.  The filter would be a good use for burlap I think.  But jute can be hard to get in early game.  Plus it requires a saw to make the loom.  Raw chunks of wool?  Something along those lines.  But basically a cooking component, and a filtering component.

Then to make candle, take some yarn and dip it in hot tallow.  Something like the loom process, where each click advances it a bit further.  Or just combine a chunk of tallow and a piece of yard in crafting grid, for simplicity.

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