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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
drkoaeg

Home of TFC 1

18 posts in this topic

I would like to know, if there are already plans, how the wiki/homepage etc. will be changed for TFC 2? Will those recent informations (wiki) be merged, or completely seperated for preventing misunderstandings. Or might it be even removed, because of old 1.7.10?

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I would like to hope that TFC1 and TFC2 will be available "side by side" at least for a while...

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The forum will stay the same way it currently is with both TFC1 and TFC2, just under different sections. The wiki will likely be something like the dwarf fortress wiki, in that all of the pages will be for TFC2, but there will be a box at the top that provides the link to the TFC1 version of the page.

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10 minutes ago, Kittychanley said:

The forum will stay the same way it currently is with both TFC1 and TFC2, just under different sections. The wiki will likely be something like the dwarf fortress wiki, in that all of the pages will be for TFC2, but there will be a box at the top that provides the link to the TFC1 version of the page.

Okay, thank you very much

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I would not be surprised if TFC1 will keep a loyal fan base, would it not be possible to have a wiki for TFC2 and a separate one for TFC1?

Also because they most likely will have some very different game mechanics.

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On 1-7-2016 at 1:51 PM, Lenaco said:

I would not be surprised if TFC1 will keep a loyal fan base, would it not be possible to have a wiki for TFC2 and a separate one for TFC1?

Also because they most likely will have some very different game mechanics.

Perhaps a drop-down box at the top of the Wiki page where you would select  "TFC1" or "TFC2"?

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One easy way may be to duplicate the wiki files and rename the copy as tfc2. then the original wiki would remain only tfc1 and the copy could be modified with all the changes that we will have in tfc2.

I think it would avoid a lot of confusion and it would save the work of rewriting the whole wiki. 

The end result would be 2 different wikis one for each tfc

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2 hours ago, ChunkHunter said:

Perhaps a drop-down box at the top of the Wiki page where you would select  "TFC1" or "TFC2"?

 

1 hour ago, TonyLiberatto said:

One easy way may be to duplicate the wiki files and rename the copy as tfc2. then the original wiki would remain only tfc1 and the copy could be modified with all the changes that we will have in tfc2.

I think it would avoid a lot of confusion and it would save the work of rewriting the whole wiki. 

The end result would be 2 different wikis one for each tfc

 

Please make sure you guys are reading the entire topic before you reply to it. Both of you have just suggested something basically identical to what I said would happen in my earlier reply.

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On 6/6/2016 at 0:46 PM, Kittychanley said:

all of the pages will be for TFC2,

My point was about this.

I was suggesting instead having 2 totally separated wikis.

I really believe it would avoid confusion. 

Since no more changes would be needed for the tfc1 wiki, that means only having to maintain and change the new tfc2 wiki.

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I'm guessing you've never used the Dwarf Fortress wiki? Basically, all of the pages have TFC2 information by default, but there's a box at the top that says that it's the page for TFC2, and in the box has a link for TFC1. When you click the link for the TFC1 version, it just loads the TFC1 page.

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I actually never played Dwarf Fortress. I took a look on their wiki and to be honest did not like.

Still think 2 completely separate wikis would be better. Instead of having to link each page.

For everything I have read so far the mods will be so different that this would be the best way to avoid confusion.

Just on the top of the page the player hover the mouse and a drop down menu gives the choice Wiki tfc1 and wiki tfc2.

In the end is your decision. I just have a feeling that players would be constantly asking for things that exist in one version of the mod but not on the other.

Unfortunately, I am not confident in my domain of the English language to help much with the Wiki.  

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How is a dropdown to pick TFC1 vs TFC2 any different than the TFC2 page having a link to TFC1 and vice versa?

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Not sure Kitty.

You been working on this wiki for so long. You may know what work best .

In my mind I see players submitting support tickets for features that used to exist in tfc1 and do not in tfc2 or vice versa.

It's a simple mechanic. I know. And I actually have no idea how this new wiki would work. For example: when a player makes a search will it give results for both wikis?

I wanted the player to once selecting tfc1 or tfc2 to be lock inside that wiki until he/she goes to the other.

I would go so far as having different colors for the wikis and different backgrounds for easy identification.

Again, I have not used much the Dwarf Fortress wiki, so maybe I am seeing a problem that does not exist.

Trying to help here. 

 

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14 hours ago, Kittychanley said:

How is a dropdown to pick TFC1 vs TFC2 any different than the TFC2 page having a link to TFC1 and vice versa?

OK - I admit my reply wasn't completely unabiguous, and I hadn't looked at the Dwarf Fortress wiki - which also doesn't look anywhere near as good as the TFC wiki for what it's worth.

What I inferred from your statement is pretty much how the DF wiki works - with a little box at the top of every content page which links to all the listed versions.  This means that every time you update to a new version you have to go out and change EVERY EARLIER VERSION of that page in the wiki to link to the 'new' page.  Or, and I beleive this is what they are doing there, you update the 'latest' page only, and leave the 'older' pages still pointing at one version behind until there's actually a change in that particular item, or a 'major' change.

Look at their "war dogs" page for an example of what I mean.  The 'default' page refers to the latest version as 0.43.04 with the earlier versions, but all 'older' pages refer to the 'latest' version as 0.42.06 (with the same earlier versions).  This simply looks sloppy.

 

My suggestion of a dropdown is different as follows:

What I didn't state was that the dropdown would be in the 'boilerplate' segment of the webpage, not in the 'content' segment like it is on the DF site.  This means that you can set a variable (or, if you really have to, a cookie) which will save your selection.  Then, when you want to serve up a content page you first look at the stored selection and simply serve the page that is appropriate for that version of the game.
This will also help if not all of your hyperlinks are relative links - the software 'behind the scenes' will simply see "aha - you're pointing at 'crucible' - and I know you've got 'TFC2' selected so I'll serve the 'crucible' page for 'TFC2'".

It may well be that I am looking at this from a web designer's point of view, and you are simply using a "Wiki package" where you have no real say in anything other than content pages, in which case it *might* be simpler, depending on the requirements of the Wiki software and it's database, to have two separate complete Wikis sitting side by side rathen than try to amalgamate the two.  This will also prevent confusion if someone forgets that they will see the TFC2 page by default.

Please note that I'm not trying to 'shoot you down'; I'm simply offering an alternative and an opinion.

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7 hours ago, TonyLiberatto said:

It's a simple mechanic. I know. And I actually have no idea how this new wiki would work. For example: when a player makes a search will it give results for both wikis?

I wanted the player to once selecting tfc1 or tfc2 to be lock inside that wiki until he/she goes to the other.

I was thinking that if you aren't looking at a page for a specific version (like the main page) then search results would just show for TFC2. If you are looking at a TFC1 page though, then search results would be just for TFC1.

 

3 hours ago, ChunkHunter said:

OK - I admit my reply wasn't completely unabiguous, and I hadn't looked at the Dwarf Fortress wiki - which also doesn't look anywhere near as good as the TFC wiki for what it's worth.

I think a miscommunication here is that you aren't familiar with wiki templates. That box up at the top is a template, you edit the single template page and the change displays on every single page that displays that template. There's nothing where I'd have to go and update every single page individually. Wiki's also have namespaces which track which section you are currently in, so there's no need to store a variable or a cookie, the namespace already takes care of that.

I also wasn't clear that the version box would only  be showing the switch between major versions. I wouldn't go as far as the dwarf fortress wiki in that it has different versions for every minor revision. There would only ever be two copies of a page, one for the latest version of TFC1, and one for the latest version of TFC2. When TFC2 updates, I simply go and edit the template page to have the new version number, and automatically every TFC1 page's box at the top will update to display the newer TFC2 version in its link.

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I think I understand now.

Once again, thanks for the patience in explaining how things work.

I really appreciate.

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55 minutes ago, Kittychanley said:

I think a miscommunication here is that you aren't familiar with wiki templates. That box up at the top is a template, you edit the single template page and the change displays on every single page that displays that template. There's nothing where I'd have to go and update every single page individually. Wiki's also have namespaces which track which section you are currently in, so there's no need to store a variable or a cookie, the namespace already takes care of that.

As I said in my last paragraph:

Quote

It may well be that I am looking at this from a web designer's point of view, and you are simply using a "Wiki package"

That template is part of the "package" to which I was referring.  It seems like the Dwarf Fortress site isn't using it properly, or it's a sloppy template that doesn't update the versions well.  Similarly the "namespace" you refer to is a variable (probably in the "local data" cookie the wiki site uses) within the package.

I now know how the site is built up and what kinds of things you have access to so in further replies (if any) I will try not to look at things from the wrong perspective.

 

Regarding only showing the major versions, it *might* be better to show minor versions in TFC2 (not for TFC1!) if the functionality is significantly different - unless you feel that a similar thing to the TFC1 wiki's history section at the bottom will suffice.
Then again, thinking about it - showing minor versions in this way may confuse things even more:  "Why isn't there an update 0.2.4 on the crucible when there is one for the anvil - and why is it 0.2.8 on the magicking table?".
(just thinking out loud) :)

Pace

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