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drkoaeg

Less tech development

12 posts in this topic

As TFC 2 is focused on adventure mode, I'd like to discuss something pretty controversial:

Why not dropping all those stuff you achieve by settling down. So no big agriculture tech, no deep metallurgy, (no chisel building -already stated).

 

So it would be needed new achievements the players want to take. I think the conquering of islands is already one of such new features.

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A game with nothing but adventure would get boring very quickly. You need a reason to adventure, and the idea of having a home to bring goods back to and a use for them gives you motivation to continue exploring.

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9 hours ago, Kittychanley said:

A game with nothing but adventure would get boring very quickly. You need a reason to adventure, and the idea of having a home to bring goods back to and a use for them gives you motivation to continue exploring.

I see what you mean, but this could be realised also by a portable "base". Take a look for example to the nomadic tent mod. It would be enough to save some things and way of progress. But all other progress is done by conquering islands, find better stuff there. Search dungeons, fight against nature.

If you watch Terrafirmapunk on Youtube, you will see this concept already kind of working in TFC1. The people enjoy discovering ruins and dungeons and get most of their stuff from there. Furthermore with magic they are almost independent of food production and in-deep smithing.

 

So I would come from a completely other side: The reason for adventure is survival. The food, the ressources are mainly obtainable through "adventuring". And the use of going further is to get even better stuff.

Edited by drkoaeg
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I really dislike this concept and hope that the Dev's would never venture in that direction.

When you analyse, Minecraft is in essence a game about building with colored blocks. It is nothing more than a Virtual Lego.

It has 2 Modes:

  • Creative: All blocks are readily available to the player.
  • Survival: Blocks are slightly harder to obtain, with some work involved.

TFC adds to the survival aspect, making it a little harder to survive, but as a reward it also adds many more building blocks.

Most people I know about are really proud of their achievements in building a base or town using TFC resources.

That said, I understand the appeal of Survival Maps; where the player has an objective of getting from here to there or building something specific.

I just do not believe it should be the way for the mod to be.

Although I have wished for TFC to be made in a way to facilitate the creation of survival maps by others. Like giving easy access to all blocks and resources in the game in the Creative Mode. This way any player could create a challenging survival map that others would enjoy.

Let me see if I made myself clear. I am not saying your ideas are without merit. Am just saying that they would be better as a modification of the game and not the game in itself. I would advocate for TFC2 to fully support individual map creation.

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3 hours ago, TonyLiberatto said:

I really dislike this concept and hope that the Dev's would never venture in that direction.

When you analyse, Minecraft is in essence a game about building with colored blocks. It is nothing more than a Virtual Lego.

It has 2 Modes:

  • Creative: All blocks are readily available to the player.
  • Survival: Blocks are slightly harder to obtain, with some work involved.

TFC adds to the survival aspect, making it a little harder to survive, but as a reward it also adds many more building blocks.

Most people I know about are really proud of their achievements in building a base or town using TFC resources.

That said, I understand the appeal of Survival Maps; where the player has an objective of getting from here to there or building something specific.

I just do not believe it should be the way for the mod to be.

Although I have wished for TFC to be made in a way to facilitate the creation of survival maps by others. Like giving easy access to all blocks and resources in the game in the Creative Mode. This way any player could create a challenging survival map that others would enjoy.

Let me see if I made myself clear. I am not saying your ideas are without merit. Am just saying that they would be better as a modification of the game and not the game in itself. I would advocate for TFC2 to fully support individual map creation.

Yeah, I think you made a good point. Either way you don't have to worry too much: As far as I know there is already some anvil work done :)

 

I was just thinking what is the forced differences between tfc1 and 2. If I read your argument, the result is the same mod as we have right now.

Also you missed one aspect: I did not talk about forbidding building materials etc. (not possible either way). I just asked if therefore it is needed to have all those tech tree, that forces you to build one static base in your world.

Frankly, there are meanwhile a ton of mods that add similar survival things to MC. Okay, you say the difficulty is one singularity for tfc, but is this fixed on tfc tech tree or couldn't there found new adventurous ones?

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On 6/30/2016 at 9:32 AM, drkoaeg said:

As TFC 2 is focused on adventure mode, I'd like to discuss something pretty controversial:

Why not dropping all those stuff you achieve by settling down. So no big agriculture tech, no deep metallurgy, (no chisel building -already stated).

 

So it would be needed new achievements the players want to take. I think the conquering of islands is already one of such new features.

Woah. That would be removing a large chunk of fun. 

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On 7/1/2016 at 10:53 AM, drkoaeg said:

I just asked if therefore it is needed to have all those tech tree, that forces you to build one static base in your world.

To be fair, not even TFC1 does this. There's absolutely nothing that forces you to build one static base and keep everything there. In fact, I've seen players that intentionally build multiple bases across the world for different reasons. For example, players that have their farm closer to the equator so they'll get better crop growth. They build their smithing area closer to an area that has a bunch of different ores and minerals. They build their "home" with storage and food processing near an area that has resources in the color palette they'd like to build with. Etc etc.

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34 minutes ago, Kittychanley said:

To be fair, not even TFC1 does this. There's absolutely nothing that forces you to build one static base and keep everything there. In fact, I've seen players that intentionally build multiple bases across the world for different reasons. For example, players that have their farm closer to the equator so they'll get better crop growth. They build their smithing area closer to an area that has a bunch of different ores and minerals. They build their "home" with storage and food processing near an area that has resources in the color palette they'd like to build with. Etc etc.

Okay, I restricted it too much, you are not forced to have one base , but in general you can not progress far without settling down.

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To be honest all the discussion in tfc2, all the talk about Islands and having to conquer one after the other may give you exactly what you want . The player will need to be constantly on the move. From one Island to the next.

that's how an adventure game works.

The end of the big continents, may as well translate in the end of the big bases.

Can't say much, because right now everything is just speculation. 

It's strange how what one person want is the totally opposite of what others want and love about the TFC.

The part I like most about TFC is exactly to build huge bases and towns. A place where players can cooperate and work together.

I like the fact that in a server, players with different schedules can still work and live in the same town. All cooperating for the same result.

One or a small group of player may log early in the day and decide to go mine for iron.

Another group may log latter on and smelt that iron and take care of the farms or familiarize animals.

there is always so much work to be done in a town.

Someone may log latter on and make a tree farm.

Others will gather rocks to make bricks.

My hope is that as much as all the mechanics of the new TFC2 will be different they would still allow for this kind of cooperation.

Otherwise it will be a game to be played alone or by a small group of friends playing always together.

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24 minutes ago, TonyLiberatto said:

To be honest all the discussion in tfc2, all the talk about Islands and having to conquer one after the other may give you exactly what you want . The player will need to be constantly on the move. From one Island to the next.

that's how an adventure game works.

The end of the big continents, may as well translate in the end of the big bases.

It's strange how what one person want is the totally opposite of what others want and love about the TFC.

The part I like most about TFC is exactly to build huge bases and towns. A place where players can cooperate and work together.

 

My hope is that as much as all the mechanics of the new TFC2 will be different they would still allow for this kind of cooperation.

Otherwise it will be a game to be played alone or by a small group of friends playing always together.

Actually, I also enjoy those mechanics of TFC1 very much. But nevertheless I'd like to have an open-minded discussion on how an 'adventure mode' tfc-style could be done. I have read way too often in the developement of TFC2 that it will be not compareable with TFC1. So here it is, what will be the difference, atm, the suggestion forum is full of proposals that fit perfectly to TFC1 (I have also proposed some things in this way), and I don't see people discussing much 'adventure' topics.

In regard what you said about server I am really curious how this should work out with the difficulty island worldgen. At the moment, it seems as if this economy system ,as you describe it, will be lost. Since we have no clue what will replace this, I would suggest to discuss this too :)

 

Edited by drkoaeg
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On 7/2/2016 at 2:40 PM, drkoaeg said:

I have read way too often in the developement of TFC2 that it will be not compareable with TFC1.

I don't think that should be taken to mean that TFC2 will be definitively different.  I think the guideline is, don't *assume* that anything from TFC1 will be the same in TFC2.  That doesn't mean it won't be the same, either.  But don't assume it will. 

As I've said before, what minecraft does well is huge sandbox worlds, and building.  It's not designed to be an adventure game. The graphics are very poor, specifically to allow massive amounts of world, and the rearrangement thereof - at least that's how I understand it.   Personally I think it would be a bad idea to try to make TFC2 be a pure adventure game.  There's tons of other games out there that fill that role far better.  You've got games like Ark that are trying to do both roles, but their building game is still interior to minecraft, imho. 

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2 hours ago, Darmo said:

I don't think that should be taken to mean that TFC2 will be definitively different.  I think the guideline is, don't *assume* that anything from TFC1 will be the same in TFC2.  That doesn't mean it won't be the same, either.  But don't assume it will. 

You are right, I should not see it black vs. white.

2 hours ago, Darmo said:

As I've said before, what minecraft does well is huge sandbox worlds, and building.  It's not designed to be an adventure game. The graphics are very poor, specifically to allow massive amounts of world, and the rearrangement thereof - at least that's how I understand it.   Personally I think it would be a bad idea to try to make TFC2 be a pure adventure game.  There's tons of other games out there that fill that role far better.  You've got games like Ark that are trying to do both roles, but their building game is still interior to minecraft, imho. 

 But is it really essential to keep on things the base game handles already quite well? I think modding adds the opportunity to bring independent feature instead of just deepening the experience of good old minecraft.

In TFC1 it was easily doable to live without building, but you had several fixed places where you had to stay frequently. Wouldn't it an improvement to give the player a further opportial step to keep a nomad? It does not mean you were forced not to build one base, several bases, etc, but you were also not inhibited to walk around all the time and take adventures.

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