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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Donjons

Food depletion depends on the player's skills

15 posts in this topic

I really enjoy animal husbandry and farming in terrafirmacraft, however as was mentioned in the "agriculture" topic, it should be balanced and not take so much time as to prevent the player from doing anything else during summer. On the other hand, I would like more challenge in farming and tending to animals, since currently I'm buried under tons of food in my TFC world.

The main problem that I see in making food more difficult to obtain/grow/preserve, and also in promoting prepared meals versus raw food, is for the players in early game. If food is harder to come by and preserve, then it sounds like hell for a player that hasn't set up a base yet and has no metal tools.

Thus, I propose a simple idea: the higher the experience level of the player, the faster his hunger decays. That way, new players won't be too handicapped by the lack of processed food and can simply forage for what they need. The more they gain experience, the more they're expected to have progressed in the game and have set up simple farms. Once they reach a high level of experience, they need complete meals to fill their saturation (this would give more reasons to implement cooking recipes).

"Experience" could be determined by the sum of the player's level, and maybe of all his different skills: farming, cooking, prospecting, smithing, etc. Some skills might have more influence on the decay of the hunger bar than others. (for example, a player who loves mining and has a high level of prospecting might not get hungry quite as fast as a player that has a high level of farming, since a miner might not be expected to have built tons of fields whereas a farmer would)

I think this system could add a nice challenge to the game, since it would increase with the player's progression without hindering it.

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5 minutes ago, Donjons said:

If food is harder to come by and preserve, then it sounds like hell for a player that hasn't set up a base yet and has no metal tools.

This is cool, why not? Of course the player does not have metal tools. People in the past farmed without metal for 2000 years.

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8 minutes ago, Donjons said:

Thus, I propose a simple idea: the higher the experience level of the player, the faster his hunger decays.

This is not believable, not realistic and grinding. And there are ways to balance all this with pests and dearths and other things already said in other topics, i think. If all the food was for only 1 person it would be too much. But in TFC2 people will have to work together and help others to be helped to advance in the game. And not everyone will be a farmer.

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12 hours ago, Diego il Catanico Jr said:

This is cool, why not? Of course the player does not have metal tools. People in the past farmed without metal for 2000 years.

I agree that it can be fun to try and survive with low food, but if it's as easy for a new player to forage for food, then what is the use of raising animals and having farms? And on the other hand, once you have all those farms you have way too much food lying around and you don't know what to do with it. And when I said metals tools I meant any tools, I'm talking about early game here, like the stone age.

 

12 hours ago, Diego il Catanico Jr said:

This is not believable, not realistic and grinding. And there are ways to balance all this with pests and dearths and other things already said in other topics, i think. If all the food was for only 1 person it would be too much. But in TFC2 people will have to work together and help others to be helped to advance in the game. And not everyone will be a farmer.

I know, that's why I propose that farming skills will deplete the hunger bar quicker than mining or other skills, since farmers will be expected to have more food available. And furthermore, I think it could be quite beneficial for servers since it gives a real purpose to farmers and cooks: they will have to provide food for the rest of the players in exchange for other goods. Currently, anyone can have a patch of vegetables and survive alone on a server. My suggestion means that if you want to have your own patch of vegetables, then you might take the risk of needing more food, thus having to go and buy some into town and promoting exchanges of goods.  What is the use of having a farm if it's too grindy and full of pests, when you could simply forage?

 

And finally, please don't forget also the single players, not everybody wants to play on a server. 

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What if the more food you eat the more food you need? If you're thinner you'll need less food.

Singleplayer is a problem. TFC2 seems to be tought for multiplayer.

But what if singleplayer will be now a mode to show to the player how far you can go alone?

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Darn I made two replies

Edited by Donjons
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15 minutes ago, Diego il Catanico Jr said:

What if the more food you eat the more food you need? If you're thinner you'll need less food.

 

Yes but in that cas there's no reason to eat more food if the more you eat the more you need.

 

Think of it as a bodybuilder for example. The stronger he gets the more food he needs. And, more importantly, the more proper, cooked meals he needs which will encourage more recipes in TFC2.

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3 hours ago, Donjons said:

Think of it as a bodybuilder for example. The stronger he gets the more food he needs. And, more importantly, the more proper, cooked meals he needs which will encourage more recipes in TFC2.

Exactly. I was on mobile phone when i wrote that so i couldn't explain in this way.

And you will always need to eat so there is always reason to eat. Then some foods will make this effect to be less strong (vegetables), and somes more (meat and diary). And if statistic were implemented this will be connected to weight and strenght.

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This just seems annoying. If you are a black smith and go out looking for ore, you are going to need tons of food for what ever distance you travel to find the ore, plus mine it, and then get it back to town. If a farmer and blacksmith went to go tackle a dungeon then the farmer would have an advantage in that he could attack and travel longer without getting hungry.  It seems to be geared toward making the early game easier and the late game more tedious. Things IMO should start out hard, become easier till they managed. The farming in agriculture does keep a farmer pretty busy during the growing season but that can get negated through various people helping out, growing on an island where the temperature is such that you can grow all year long, cooking, and proper storage. 

On my first TFC 1 server we lived in the far north, around -25000, with a very short growing season and not that big of field. You could grow for 4 months out of the year, yet we could grow so much in that short amount of time, that you only had to grow every other year. I would rather make food harder to get, then make people eat more often.

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Instead, as it was proposed before many times, we could have a system with animal hunger. That would give a use for all that food and would require the player to balance food production with how many animals they have.

Before you ask, the proposed was for animals not to die of hunger, ( So if a player is absent from the server they will not find all the animals dead). The animals would just not produce whatever they usually do.

Cows would not give any milk.

Sheep would not grow wool.

Pigs would not give any meat,

Animals would need to be fed at least for 5 days before they start producing.

To help with the grind we could have some Feeding trough.

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Probably the best way is to make food harder to get and to make animals need to be fed.

I already said i don't like the idea and probably farms will still produce too much. But better more than not enough. And to produce too much you would be a skilled farmer.

And hunting should be the main way toget food in early game, and medium-secondary way for mid and late.

IMO now the main problem is that you get food only waiting without doing nothing more for the crops.

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Not a fan of the OP idea.  I think there's plenty of other ways to bring balance to the food equation, that give the player more choice and control.  If crop diseases increase the more crops you have, that alone should be a natural brake on farming.  Not to mention the notions of animals using food, or trading food with npcs.

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I get all your points and I can see that many are against it. Though I would just like to point out that I was not envisioning a high skilled player spending all his time eating, like 4 stacks a food a day or something. To make it relatable, it could be described like this: a new player would eat 1 TFC sandwich a day, whereas a player maxed out on all skills would have to eat 5. If hearty meals are added in TFC2, that could be 1 sandwich for a new player and 1 or 2 hearty meals for the maxed out player. Nothing too extreme, but it would put more value on cooking meals. Therefore the maxed out player would still only have to carry around 1 or 2 items of food, but they would be more nutritious than the simple raw food that the new player could survive on.

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4 hours ago, Donjons said:

I get all your points and I can see that many are against it. Though I would just like to point out that I was not envisioning a high skilled player spending all his time eating, like 4 stacks a food a day or something. To make it relatable, it could be described like this: a new player would eat 1 TFC sandwich a day, whereas a player maxed out on all skills would have to eat 5. If hearty meals are added in TFC2, that could be 1 sandwich for a new player and 1 or 2 hearty meals for the maxed out player. Nothing too extreme, but it would put more value on cooking meals. Therefore the maxed out player would still only have to carry around 1 or 2 items of food, but they would be more nutritious than the simple raw food that the new player could survive on.

Well, nothing against it if it will be configurable.

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I think food should be as experience points are for a mmorpg:  you grind them at the beginning and they are a non issue later on. 

It is true that the main objective of TFC in general is survival and for that reason food seems to be a logical candidate to focus on for the difficulty, but in reality it should not. If food has to play a major role things like farming and food preservation would be an illogical part of the gameplay; farming ensure you with a suitable amount of food and preservation multiply your food several times. The thing is, if you have so much food that you don't know what to do with it, it just mean that you have wasted resources unnecessarily (preservation materials, time, land, etc.). More hunger just mean you have to farm more and to use more materials and time to gather them, instead on focusing on the part of the gameplay that you want.

And that is not considering that people might feel discouraged to advance, to increase their levels if they have to focus on farming instead of whatever they want to do. From a single and multiplayer perspective, the less a single person has to focus on a single activity the more opportunities for fun they have. But that not necessarily means that farming and food cannot be a focus or an end goal for players that enjoy that side. You can be the one responsible for feeding the crazy monster hunters, the brave explorer and/or fellow ranchers. If the quality food returns for TFC2 you can supply with superb sandwiches or stock the restaurant that just opened. The larger the city you have to feed the more you need to learn about rotation and timely production to have a stock of fresh and preserved food all the time.

And food is always needed.

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