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      Only help if you can be helpful

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      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Peffern

Creating a Well Addon - Help with Theorycrafting

30 posts in this topic

I'm designing an addon that allows you to create a well so you can draw water out of the ground. I have some basic stuff working but I'm looking to make it balanced and believable, so I'm asking for help with this from anyone who knows anything about earth science or hydrology, or is good at this kind of game balancing.

 

My plan as it is now, is to have the well be a multi block that is assembled on top of a large hole, consisting of rope and wood and whatever else. You'll be able to attach a bucket to the well, lower it into the ground, and retrieve water. I'm thinking the well will have an internal storage of how much water it contains, which will refresh at a specific rate (get to this in a bit) and when you take water out, it reduces by a specific amount, and then replenishes. It also has a cap so it doesn't just fill up indefinitely. I'm also considering having an environmental depletion wherein theres an amount of water in the aquifer, and the wells replenish by draining from that, and if you exhaust the aquifer with too many wells in the same area, then they will start to dry up. I haven't run the numbers to see if this is something that could feasibly occur in TFC's time scale.

Which means there are basically two (three) numbers to define: how much water can the well hold, and how fast does it replenish (and how big is the aquifer).

Presumably, the capacity of the well is going to be determined by its depth. If a value for the water table can be computed, then the depth of the lowest point of the well below the water table corresponds to the number of buckets the well can hold (1 bucket per block). Which now leaves us with the question of where the water table is. Presumably this should be defined in terms of the y-level (relative to sea level), as well as the rock type, and the ground level. (I.e. areas with higher elevation should have a higher ground level). It also probably relates to the EVT value for the chunk, since dryer areas have a lower water table, right?

So something like water-table-level = sea-level + (ground-level – sea-level) * rock-type-mod - EVT-offset. where rock-type-mod is a value between 0 and 1 corresponding to how water-permeable the rock type is, and EVT-offset is a straight offset that just depresses the water table for low EVT values, so you have to dig deeper to get water in dryer areas.


And then, as for how fast the well replenishes, that's solely a function of the rock type, right?
EDIT: and well depth. 



If anyone knows anything about how this subject works in real life, has ideas for how this should be balanced in game, or anything else they want to be contribute, please do so in the comments! I'm currently working on getting the multiblock to work, so I'll post the addon as soon at it's ready. Thanks!

Edited by Peffern
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I'm not a hydrologist or anything.  Hopefully ok if I still contribute some thoughts.  I think that aquifers mostly occur in porous stones (sandstone, limestone, conglomerate) or underground layers of non-stone material like sand or gravel.  Offhand this is a bit problematic for TFC in that sedimentary stones - the rl best ones - only occur on the top layer.  So your very best aquifers, if true to life, would always be in the top, easy to reach layer.  I guess insofar as sedimentary layers aren't the most desireable starting top layer (due to lack of copper), maybe that kind of would balance easy aquifers. 

In terms of the non-sedimentary stones we do have, I'd think slate and maybe marble would be the best candidates for aquifers.  Even then, you'd then never have an aquifer at the bottom level.  So I'd suggest maybe not worrying too much about rl best stones maybe.  Either make the stones that are otherwise unattractive (Diorite, Slate, Rhyolite, Phyllite)  Have the best properties.  Just so they have something more going for them.  Two of those stones can occur at any later, and two middle or upper.  So they'd have a good distribution.

In terms of capacity, I'd suggest making it depend on more than just a deep hole in the stone.  That's easy and costs nothing.  What if you made a new block - clay drain tile - and the player had to line the well with this.  That brings some actual work and expense to the hole itself, rather than it just being a hole dug down into the rock.  If the player wants more capacity, they have to put in a little work.   Clay tile laid above the water table has no effect on capacity.

In terms of thoughts on balance, I find myself wondering if there is an intent for these wells aside from getting water in deserts?  Because water really isn't all that hard to come by in TFC generally speaking, especially once one has barrels.  And deserts are very rare and not fun to be in, quite aside from water issues. So if they're mostly a sort of novelty structure, I'm not sure there's really anything to balance?  The only real thing I can think of is having a well inside a mine, so you don't have to leave to get water.  That would be kind of nice.  Though a barrel at the bottom of a ladder to the surface will serve the same purpose. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Darmo said:

I'm not a hydrologist or anything.  Hopefully ok if I still contribute some thoughts.  I think that aquifers mostly occur in porous stones (sandstone, limestone, conglomerate) or underground layers of non-stone material like sand or gravel.  Offhand this is a bit problematic for TFC in that sedimentary stones - the rl best ones - only occur on the top layer.  So your very best aquifers, if true to life, would always be in the top, easy to reach layer.  I guess insofar as sedimentary layers aren't the most desireable starting top layer (due to lack of copper), maybe that kind of would balance easy aquifers. 

In terms of the non-sedimentary stones we do have, I'd think slate and maybe marble would be the best candidates for aquifers.  Even then, you'd then never have an aquifer at the bottom level.  So I'd suggest maybe not worrying too much about rl best stones maybe.  Either make the stones that are otherwise unattractive (Diorite, Slate, Rhyolite, Phyllite)  Have the best properties.  Just so they have something more going for them.  Two of those stones can occur at any later, and two middle or upper.  So they'd have a good distribution.

In terms of capacity, I'd suggest making it depend on more than just a deep hole in the stone.  That's easy and costs nothing.  What if you made a new block - clay drain tile - and the player had to line the well with this.  That brings some actual work and expense to the hole itself, rather than it just being a hole dug down into the rock.  If the player wants more capacity, they have to put in a little work.   Clay tile laid above the water table has no effect on capacity.

In terms of thoughts on balance, I find myself wondering if there is an intent for these wells aside from getting water in deserts?  Because water really isn't all that hard to come by in TFC generally speaking, especially once one has barrels.  And deserts are very rare and not fun to be in, quite aside from water issues. So if they're mostly a sort of novelty structure, I'm not sure there's really anything to balance?  The only real thing I can think of is having a well inside a mine, so you don't have to leave to get water.  That would be kind of nice.  Though a barrel at the bottom of a ladder to the surface will serve the same purpose. 

 

The goal of this is to allow players to not necessarily build adjacent to a body of water. I'm on a server right now and we found a great valley to build a base in, but there isn't water for a decent distance, and it occurred to me that this should exist.

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The water table level is normally as same as the level lakes and rivers occur. However there are some stone layers that have no consistent layer because they are porous like chalk.

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I would not use the water table thing to make some adjustments, it is far more easy and consistent to use the propick to find a water vein. Same mechanic as resource mining, and you do not have to mind what for example will happen with the water table if somebody digs several mines around your well :)

 

 

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9 hours ago, drkoaeg said:

I would not use the water table thing to make some adjustments, it is far more easy and consistent to use the propick to find a water vein. Same mechanic as resource mining, and you do not have to mind what for example will happen with the water table if somebody digs several mines around your well :)

The problem with that would be that the intent is apparently to allow players to build in places without ready water.  So if you find that excellently generated place to build, but there's no 'water vein' there, then the mod has failed at it's purpose.  For the stated goal, I think Peffern's idea of a universal water table is better. 

Personally, I don't think it's probably necessary to get too complicated.  I don't see a lot of point in making it fancy and realistic just to have water, which is a basic thing. The water level proposal in the OP sounds fine to me, and refill rate I'd probably make random, or uniform, due to the deep and mid rocks being rather homogenous. If the water were part of a tech ladder, it'd be a different story.  But if it's just to let you live in an otherwise dry area, and in my opinion, that's not a balance issue.  The issue of providing water to mines is minor in my opinion, as it's not that hard to bring barrel fulls of water to a mine, or just have an open barrel that accumulates rain.   If the rain barrel mechanic weren't present, it would be a different matter, and this would probably be worthwhile  for mine water in certain situations.  Putting it behind the metal tool tech gate is probably sufficient, and adding the time sink of firing some clay would definitely be enough of a cost, I'd say. 

Edited by Darmo
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This is needed really. It would make farms easyer

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1 hour ago, Jas02 said:

This is needed really. It would make farms easyer

Farms are already super-easy.  And I don't see how the well as described so far would make it easier.  It's not creating water source blocks, to the best of my understanding.

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If I understood correctly, the player would only be able to fill one bucket at a time. To fill a barrel he would need to go through the process 10 times. If that is the case, there is no need to complicate matters. Make it unlimited and infinite.

The idea of a well is good, but unless it would come together with some kind of mechanization that would allow for irrigation and make possible for the player to make a complete base away from rivers and natural water sources no one will use your mod.

Don't get me wrong. But you asked for balancing comments. 

 

 

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Water collection using a well. Be aware though that wells are for gathering water, not for watering crops.

Spoiler

 

Unless you are going to code aquifers, which would add another complexity to mining, I wouldn't bother making the wells too complex.

Real water tables go up from sea level based on elevation, rain fall, and soil type for the most part, there are some exceptions but TFC fills all land under sea level with water so they don't apply. In TFC there' no difference to digging 20 down then there is 50 down except more wear on your pick. So I would just put the water level at sea level and have them produce salt water if in an ocean or beach biome.

Wells running dry from over use is really a modern problem because we haven't had the technology to make wells so easily and drain them so rapidly until after the industrial revolution.  Wells in the past went dry due to droughts and there is no droughts in TFC. So unless you want to code droughts there's no need to worry about it going dry. 

There are two types of old well designs. One you walked down to and one where you lowered a bucket on a rope. What I would do is make a block from combining 4 gravel called a "Well bottom" I would have it spawn a water source block above every x amount of time if it is at sea level -1 and has an air block above it. I would make the source block salt water if in an ocean or beach biome, otherwise a fresh water block if not. With this you can make your well bottom as big as you want but at this point you have to walk all the way down to the bottom of the well to get water, which can be a pain.

So next item I would make is a custom fishing rod. This rod when cast into water consumes a wooden bucket in your inventory and replaces it with a bucket containing the appropriate water type. This allows you to stand up at the top of a hole with water below and pull it up to the surface. The only draw back to this is you pretty much have to stand on top of the hole and look straight down and it only has a range of around 50 so doesn't work in higher elevations.

To have a well that works at any elevation I'd make a structure consisting of 3 blocks. Shaft support, Shaft, and crank. I'd make the crank look visually like the shaft support but when it's placed it checks for the other two blocks and if it doesn't find them in the correct order, pops back up like the blast furnace doors. When the structure is complete I would have the same gui as the quern. A place for a crank, which makes the visual of the crank appear on the side of the block opposite of the shaft like the top part of a quern. A place for an empty bucket. You click the crank, just as you do with the top part of a quern, and when it's done it damages the crank, consumes the water bucket, it consumes a water source located in direct line of sight under the shaft, and in the output appears a bucket filled with what ever water type it consumed. The recipes for the custom blocks I leave up to you to figure out.

With these three different types of wells you should be able to get water anywhere and can pick the one you want based on need or looks. If you are at the bottom of a mine and just want a place to get water you can make a well bottom and just walk over to that. If you have a farm within 50 of sea level you can just carry around the custom fishing rod and a bucket. If you live at higher elevation or don't want to have to carry around the fishing rod you can make the last style of well. The nice part about it is you have blocks that work together but don't depend on each adding flexibility and potential uses. It also wouldn't be too hard to add support for red and blue steel buckets.

 

Making that water available to crops what you need is a cistern. Since TFC farmland specifically searches for freshWater and saltWater, What I would do is make a multiblock with two layers. The bottom layer would be 3x3 stone or smooth stone blocks surrounding a cistern block and top layer would be another 3x3 stone or smooth stone blocks that is hallow in the middle. Once constructed I'd allow it to be filled by draining water from barrels placed on top of the 8 top blocks. This allows it to be filled more rapidly and if you leave the barrels there it'll effectively get filled up by rain. When it has water in it the air block get filled with freshWater and the cistern empties at a configurable rate. Since freshWater is not a source block it can't be picked up but still counts toward hydrating farmland. So a cistern block would be made by putting smooth stone in a crafting grid with a bucket and would take on the look of the smooth stone it was made from. 

 

Edited by Stroam
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On 11/6/2016 at 7:51 AM, Jas02 said:

This is needed really. It would make farms easyer

Unless you live in a arid region you don't really need to "water" your crops. I'm not even sure you need them in an arid region, but I haven't built in one so I couldn't say for certain.

 

 

On 11/6/2016 at 9:38 PM, Peffern said:

The goal of this is to allow players to not necessarily build adjacent to a body of water. I'm on a server right now and we found a great valley to build a base in, but there isn't water for a decent distance, and it occurred to me that this should exist.

Not trying to bash on your efforts, but a little bit of ingenuity or TFC game mechanics can solve this problem.

Red steel buckets can carry water source blocks, so you could use those to just make a well. Design it similar to the vanilla desert wells, and you can always draw water from the center. If you aren't at that level, you could always ask another player on the server to help out with their red steel bucket, maybe trade him/her some work for the effort. Gather logs for them or something.

Barrels collect rain if you leave them out and unsealed. This is how I collect all my water in the game personally. When they are full, you seal them up and they will keep their contents if you break them and place them elsewhere, like your wine cellar.

If you don't want to make friends, and putting out barrels in the rain isn't hardcore enough for you, build an aquaduct from that water that's a decent distance away. Wooden buckets don't need a water source block to gather water, they work on flowing water too. It'd be pretty cool too if you ask me, running an underground stream to your base. Of course that would depend on how far away that water really is. Now that I thought of it though, I might try this some time! Hah.

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Here's another idea...

Are you familiar with Agricraft? It's got a water cistern and wooden piping and sprinkler system that can be used for irrigation. More importantly, it accepts rainwater. Now, in Agricraft, the sprinkler speeds up growth ticks. Obviously, that's not going to be relevant in TFC, but it also hydrates the area, which IS of importance here. Basically, as long as the sprinkler is sprinkling, you don't need a water source block. This sort of system could be used for a TFC compatible irrigation system. It would be rain-dependent, but possible.

Now then, back on topic, a well. I think a couple of folks here have it right in that you only need to drill down to sea level for a well to work, assuming you don't hit an artesian spring on the way down. However, instead of needing to craft a block, I would take a slightly different tack. I would have the well be a multiblock structure, a 3 x 3 x 3 to be precise. To create the base, you need stone bricks of any type with the center hollow. The second level are wooden vertical supports on two sides. The top layer are horizontal supports connecting them. Then you right, click the middle horizontal support with your bucket, which consumes the bucket in the process, to make your Well. As long as the hole in the middle of the well goes down to sea level, it will enable you to withdraw one bucket's worth of water (simple GUI, put bucket in, get water out) every x time frame. Slow, but it works.

Combining these two does give you a chance to keep a hydrated field going, but it is going to require an awful lot of being a one-Steve bucket brigade. Having some water barrels lying around would not be a bad idea. How often it will need to be refilled will depend on how frequently it rains, and how big it is.

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On 1/13/2017 at 0:41 AM, ShneekeyTheLost said:

Here's another idea...

Are you familiar with Agricraft? It's got a water cistern and wooden piping and sprinkler system that can be used for irrigation. More importantly, it accepts rainwater. Now, in Agricraft, the sprinkler speeds up growth ticks. Obviously, that's not going to be relevant in TFC, but it also hydrates the area, which IS of importance here. Basically, as long as the sprinkler is sprinkling, you don't need a water source block. This sort of system could be used for a TFC compatible irrigation system. It would be rain-dependent, but possible.

Now then, back on topic, a well. I think a couple of folks here have it right in that you only need to drill down to sea level for a well to work, assuming you don't hit an artesian spring on the way down. However, instead of needing to craft a block, I would take a slightly different tack. I would have the well be a multiblock structure, a 3 x 3 x 3 to be precise. To create the base, you need stone bricks of any type with the center hollow. The second level are wooden vertical supports on two sides. The top layer are horizontal supports connecting them. Then you right, click the middle horizontal support with your bucket, which consumes the bucket in the process, to make your Well. As long as the hole in the middle of the well goes down to sea level, it will enable you to withdraw one bucket's worth of water (simple GUI, put bucket in, get water out) every x time frame. Slow, but it works.

Combining these two does give you a chance to keep a hydrated field going, but it is going to require an awful lot of being a one-Steve bucket brigade. Having some water barrels lying around would not be a bad idea. How often it will need to be refilled will depend on how frequently it rains, and how big it is.

I think this is similar to what I had in mind. A simple multi block, where you but a bucket in and get a water bucket out, once every x time frame. At this point, I want to to determine x from the environment - i.e. rock type, EVT, etc. Any ideas?

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1 hour ago, Peffern said:

I think this is similar to what I had in mind. A simple multi block, where you but a bucket in and get a water bucket out, once every x time frame. At this point, I want to to determine x from the environment - i.e. rock type, EVT, etc. Any ideas?

Why not base it on average rainfall? It's already a variable used in determining which animals can spawn, and it would make sense. The less average rainfall in the area, the smaller and less productive the aquifer. Granted, it's not precisely accurate from a geological perspective, there are areas with low annual rainfall totals that get most of it in one season, then the entire flora and fauna biome literally depend on the aquifer for the rest of the year to live on, but it at least makes sense from a verisimilitude perspective.

Perhaps also have a modifier based on y-level of the multiblock structure? So if water level is x, then at x+50 there's a .75 multiplier on refresh time, at x+100 it drops down to .5 or something like that. After all, it's going to take longer, and require more muscle power, to haul a water bucket a hundred meters up than it would only a couple dozen.

Therefore, if your base is high in the mountains in a region with very low rainfall, your well isn't going to be nearly as productive as if it were closer to water level in a more humid climate. This not only lends verisimilitude, but also game balance. The more humid and lower the region is, the more likely you're going to have natural spawning of fresh water sources. So, the further away you get from that, the more scarce naturally occurring fresh water is, so the longer it will take the well to produce water for you. It balances itself, the more you absolutely need a well, the less productive it is going to be. Maybe also give it a minimum distance, say 25 squares, between wells for them to be effective? Or how about any wells within 25 blocks of each other share the same cooldown timer? Again, not entirely realistic, but lends itself to verisimilitude and game balance by preventing the player from spamming wells in a tight area to make up the volume.

And if the player wants to try to cheese it by digging down, THEN putting their multi-block structure for their well, they are welcome to do so. Because now the player has to haul that water up and down whatever pit they dug, which is going to impose its own 'refresh rate' as it will take time for the player to get up and down.

With these two modifiers, there's no need to put in a geome-based modifier

Edited by ShneekeyTheLost
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I don't see point on putting a water limit on the well. Yah it's a good thought but at the rate a bucket drawn well removes water, the aquifer going dry is more due to environment than pulling out water by the bucket.

Edited by Stroam
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Excellent idea, I always stick to the drinking water reservoir then looking for house foundations.  My favourite is to have drinking water, hot water and salt water nearby, but it is narrowing chance to have interesting and nice area nearby.

I propose to make it as simply as possible: build 3x3xN hollow structure, from solid block different than soil, sand, gravel or rock, with gravel at the bottom. Such structure should spawn one still water block above gravel. The reason, why not restrict to certain block is, to allow using pumps etc from other mods.

This water block would be regenerated after certain time (depend on rain level, EVT and rock type), if taken by red bucket or wooden bucket with rope (you can also use normal bucket with your hand without depleting water block, but you need to go deep, break well, take water and seal it again, and went up: fairly inconvenient.

On 5.11.2016 at 11:21 PM, Peffern said:

Which now leaves us with the question of where the water table is. Presumably this should be defined in terms of the y-level (relative to sea level), as well as the rock type, and the ground level. (I.e. areas with higher elevation should have a higher ground level). It also probably relates to the EVT value for the chunk, since dryer areas have a lower water table, right?

So something like water-table-level = sea-level + (ground-level – sea-level) * rock-type-mod - EVT-offset. where rock-type-mod is a value between 0 and 1 corresponding to how water-permeable the rock type is

I propose 1 for sedimentary, 0.5 for metamorfic and 0 for igneous rocks.

If you have sedimentary or metamorfic at the top of ingenous, dig well until reach ingenous rock bed. Only sedimentary height would be counted in, digging deeper would not give any more yield.  If you have sedimentary covered by ingenous rocks, you need dig deeper. In rare cases of two ingenous rock types, just look for lake or river.

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10 hours ago, Stroam said:

I don't see point on putting a water limit on the well. Yah it's a good thought but at the rate a bucket drawn well removes water, the aquifer going dry is more due to environment than pulling out water by the bucket.

Have you actually ever used a well in real life? It takes time to haul the bucket down, haul it back up. The delay is simply representing physically hauling the water up and down the actual well itself. Plus as a matter of game balance.

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On 1/26/2017 at 7:19 AM, Stroam said:

I don't see point on putting a water limit on the well. Yah it's a good thought but at the rate a bucket drawn well removes water, the aquifer going dry is more due to environment than pulling out water by the bucket.

It's not that the aquifer runs dry its that the well takes some time to refill.

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21 hours ago, ShneekeyTheLost said:

Have you actually ever used a well in real life? It takes time to haul the bucket down, haul it back up. The delay is simply representing physically hauling the water up and down the actual well itself. Plus as a matter of game balance.

It makes sense if it works like the quern in TFC. I'm not sure what you are balancing against. As soon as you get a saw with anywhere that rains drinking water is never an issue. Again I assuming this is not for crops because in three years of agriculture research I've never seen a farm use a well for crop use. Irrigation canals sure, but wells no.

4 hours ago, Peffern said:

It's not that the aquifer runs dry its that the well takes some

I've never seen the type of well that we are describing in real life. Only wells with mechanical pumps which generally refill at least 5 Gallons Per Minute. Which is why I think the well will refill quicker than your draw using a bucket. But I guess if your well isn't deep enough then you may have a refill rate slower than that. 

If you want the draw rate to change upon depth I would either directly tie it to a Y value or if you want to be more complex, look at the world gen that Bioxx uses to generate the 3 levels and then use that in a function so you know the depth of the rock layers at coordinates X,Z and base the draw rate off of that.

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1 hour ago, Stroam said:

It makes sense if it works like the quern in TFC. I'm not sure what you are balancing against. As soon as you get a saw with anywhere that rains drinking water is never an issue. Again I assuming this is not for crops because in three years of agriculture research I've never seen a farm use a well for crop use. Irrigation canals sure, but wells no.

I've never seen the type of well that we are describing in real life. Only wells with mechanical pumps which generally refill at least 5 Gallons Per Minute. Which is why I think the well will refill quicker than your draw using a bucket. But I guess if your well isn't deep enough then you may have a refill rate slower than that. 

If you want the draw rate to change upon depth I would either directly tie it to a Y value or if you want to be more complex, look at the world gen that Bioxx uses to generate the 3 levels and then use that in a function so you know the depth of the rock layers at coordinates X,Z and base the draw rate off of that.

Where, precisely, do you think the water in the irrigation channel came from? Water comes up from a well. These days, you use an electric pump. Back in the frontier era, it was hand-pumped, or perhaps windmill-pumped. If you ever find yourself in central Texas, I'll show you the system my family has been using for over a century, back when Texas was still part of Mexico, before it became an independent nation, much less before it joined the US. Original system was a hand-pump. That was probably rather tiring for the crops area, the one out by the horse stables is a pain to pump, but perfectly functional for refilling water troughs. Then someone got the bright idea to stick a windmill and something that looks rather like a pumpjack you'd find on an oil well to get water moving along at a steady clip. Best guess is that one was installed back in the days of Spindletop. But both of those require a lot more technical knowledge than Steve, in vanilla TFC, has.

What we are doing here is called a 'deliberate anachronism', one that probably hasn't been used since the 1600's or so.  The sort of thing that Timmy keeps falling down. Basically, we're talking about being a one-man bucket brigade, either manually filling the cistern that feeds the irrigation system manually or just hauling up one bucket at a time from the well to fill barrels. Again, we are talking verisimilitude, not realism.

The mod's intent is NOT to replace something like the Aqueous Accumulator, or the BC Pump over a water source. If that is what you are looking for, there are many other mods that fill that niche. It is intended to be able to provide a water source in areas far away from natural fresh water sources (islands and mountains being two good areas) that produces a slow but consistent supply of water.

Edited by ShneekeyTheLost
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I still think you are over complicating the whole thing.

What use is a water source if you can only fill tfc buckets? It would take 10 buckets to fill a barrel. To do any kind of actual work with alcohol, vinegar, and pickling you need a lot of barrels of water.

How about just creating a structure that the mod would scan for and fill with 4 real water source blocks, so the player can fill the barrels? 

It should be mid game, requiring the use of a saw, maybe using wood blocks?

This way it would give the player access to an actual water source that can be used in any way he needs, but not as versatile as the use of a red bucket.

You could even require for the multiblock structure to resemble the wells in the vanilla minecraft villages. 

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2 hours ago, TonyLiberatto said:

I still think you are over complicating the whole thing.

What use is a water source if you can only fill tfc buckets? It would take 10 buckets to fill a barrel. To do any kind of actual work with alcohol, vinegar, and pickling you need a lot of barrels of water.

How about just creating a structure that the mod would scan for and fill with 4 real water source blocks, so the player can fill the barrels? 

It should be mid game, requiring the use of a saw, maybe using wood blocks?

This way it would give the player access to an actual water source that can be used in any way he needs, but not as versatile as the use of a red bucket.

You could even require for the multiblock structure to resemble the wells in the vanilla minecraft villages. 

What else are you going to fill barrels with, if not buckets?

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You do not need a bucket to fill a barrel, just click on the water source with the empty barrel and it gets full.

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Okay, I'm pretty sure it's going to work like this:

The well is a small multiblock with a hole in it. There aren't real water blocks in it, although I might make it look like there is.
The well has an internal buffer that fills up with water. You can put a bucket in it to fill the bucket and drain the buffer by 1000  mB. The buffer fills at a constant rate over time. Therefore, I need answers to the following question:

how big should the buffer be?
how quickly should the buffer refill?

based on the depth of the well, rock type, and environmental factors. Ideas welcome.

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22 hours ago, Peffern said:

how big should the buffer be?
how quickly should the buffer refill?

based on the depth of the well, rock type, and environmental factors. Ideas welcome.

It might be a venturous idea, but I do want to bring it in that consideration:

If your mod detected all holes that were digged by the player, it would create the immersive feeling of an existing water table. So I would not make the refill buffer too high as well as the buffer itself.

Edited by drkoaeg
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