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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."

[Magic Expansion] Another look at magic and how to fairly implement it in game, without breaking the existing mechanics

3 posts in this topic


Before I start, I want to say this: Hold your horses! I don't want to break the existing gameplay, but to build upon it, for better replayability.

Now, the suggestions I have will be broken into pieces, so try to make sense of it, even if it requires multiple readings of the whole text.


Sources of mana and the logic behind it

First of all, what would be magic? Just like light, mana would be a property of each block to be processed, but unlike light, all the blocks will have to be processed, and nothing will have to be (graphically) rendered (just update the values in the memory). There would be blocks which generate constantly (mana sources), blocks which consume mana constantly (mana sinks), as well as blocks that consume, store or generate mana at times (magic tools). A mana tick (re-calculation of the entire field of mana in the loaded chunks) will be anywhere between 10 and 30 seconds, with the timer reset (for forceful re-calculation) when a chunk is loaded or unloaded (so the mana values can be stored without artifacts around the edges).

Also, the mana will have 4 values, for the 4 states of aggregation: solid (ground mana), liquid (water mana), gas (air mana) and plasma (fire mana). They will be reffered to as Ground, Water, Air and Fire mana, for simplicity and expressivity.

The generated mana will be transfered from one block to another this way: you take the 3D field (3-dimensional vector/matrice) as a set of 2D fields, starting from top to bottom. I will explain how to calculate that a few paragraphs below. The top adds air mana at all times and some fire mana in daytime or water mana when it rains, both water and fire mana when it rains and there's a thunder, the bottom adds earth/ground mana at all times, the lava and fire generate fire mana, water generates water mana, and the dirt and ores generate ground mana. living beings also update the mana matrice, but not once every (half a) minute, but every 3 seconds (so there's a small, finite number of updates per minute). Every block dissipates 10% of the mana it has, every cycle, with the mana source and mana sink blocks (such as ores, crops and trees,  and machines created by the player) increasing their value with a certain ammount before the dissipation calculations are done (so we don't have too much of a spike in an mana after the dissipation calculations).

Each creature has a mana consumption rate, as well as a mana pool capacity. That dictates how fast can they move, and how much mana they need to attack. For example, archers create arrows using mana, and use ground and air mana to keep their shape. Thus, their drops also should have a mana value, and through processing they shall be able to be converted/crafted/processed into something useful. Every 3 seconds, they take mana from the air, if there's any in the blocks they cover (so a skeleton would and player would take from the two blocks they overlap, while a rabbit only from the one block it overlaps / is possitioned in). This also explains why the monsters are attracted by the player: they see it as a source of mana.

The mana one creature stores in their mana pool will be released into a cube of the size 5x5x5, with the center being where the core of the creature is (usually the head). Also, when a block is destroyed, it also releases the mana it's holding, and a block loses durability and quality the more mana it loses, and gains durability and quality the more mana it recives, but the last partusually requires the use of alchemy. The mana pool of a creature is directly proportional with the HP it has the mana consumption (per tick) is also directly proportional with the health, and the mana absorption is directly proportional with the health regeneration of the said creature.

Also, the way the mana spreads is like this:  the 10% it has is split into the 6 adjacent blocks this way: 4% for the block with the most mana (to create the so-called mana-veins, or rivers of naturally flowing mana), 2% for the block with the second most mana, and 1% (each) for the rest. If there are more adjacent blocks with equally big or low value, one is picked quasi-random (overwriting the variables which link to the top2  values. If all of the surrounding blocks have equal amounts of mana, the last block to be checked will recive 5% and the rest will recive 1% (each). This concludes how mana flows naturally.


Magic Circuitry

Another thing to be noticed is that the mana-flow calculations happen between the other 2 stages of mana calculation (mana spikes, as generation and consumption, ending with mana dissipation). I mentioned it here, because it would be easier an extension of the core mechanic. There will be crafted blocks (some which will naturally generate into the wild) which force the mana to flow into a certain direction. And by that I mean that in a cube centered on the block in cause (ranging from 1x1x1 as first tier to 9x9x9 as top-tier) with the egde of the cube being of size N, having N^3  % of each block go into the N blocks in the direction the circuitry is pointing towards. So a 1x1x1 would move 1% into the block next to it, a 3x3x3 would move 1% of each block into 3 blocks, each getting 1/3 of the total ammount taken from the (3x3x3=) 27 blocks, rounded to ceiling, so 1/3 and 2/3 would be 0, 3/3, 4/3 and 5/3 would be 1, and so on, so the tool not need to store mana for usage, a 5x5x5 would get 1% of 125 blocks, divide it by 5 (resulting in an average of 1% of 25 blocks) and moving (adding) that values to the 5 blocks in front of it (the wait it's pointing towards). But making such high-tier mana vein engine should get increasingly difficult, while the current game gets easier the more the player plays, in order to increase the engagement time and replayability. Will you spend the next 30 irl hours getting one 3x3x3 mana vein engine, or to get five 1x1x1 mana vein engines? Or adding 3 extra damage to one weapon, which will break soon? Or get some extra mana collected?


Magic Tiers

There are 7 tiers (7 deadly sins, 7 circles of hell, anybody?). I will list them in a way that's easier to understand:

- Tier 0 (no mana) -  Stone - (can be killed by a) player (without the use of mana or magic, with tools likely to be found around them) / solo threat / 1-2 players (ganging on it)

- Tier 1 - Copper - tiny settlement / camp threat / 3-5 players

- Tier 2 - Iron - small settlement / village threat / 5-8 players

- Tier 3 - Steel - medium settlement / town threat / 8-13 players

- Tier 4 - Silver - large settlement / city threat / 13-21 players

- Tier 5 - Gold - big settlement / fortress threat / 21-34 players

- Tier 6 - Mithril - huge settlement / country threat / 34-65 players

- Tier 7 - Oricharium - superpower / worldwide threat / 65-99 players

Mithril would be our world's Titanium and Oricharium would be our world's Carbon NanoFiber 3D tweaked for maximum (3D) resistance.


Mana processing/crafting, also known as alchemy

Aside form mana dissipating, one will be able to flow mana through the use of mana vein engines (the natural mana vein flow is from powerful to second most powerful, then equally distributed, so from powerful to a less powerful), one will be able to collect more mana by meditating (with slightly higher hunger), to flow mana into items through flowing (mana crystals acting like batteries, for mana, unstackable into the inventory), each of those having their own buttons into the inventory. Each mana crystal will have a random mana pool (acting like an item's durability, with different tiers having different multipliers from the weakest one), as well as a random ammount of mana in that pool, with a crystal having 0 mana having that crystal break.

The four types of mana, solid (ground), liquid (water), gas (air) and plasma (fire) can be combined to create other effects. For example, combining earth mana with air mana creates pressure, which can be used, for example, for the following: enchant an item to hit harder, condensate/distill potions/mixes into other items, (for example creating your own crystals). On the ground, crystals will spawn the same as the rocks, but with random proprietes generated for the item, when broken/taken. The mana capacity will be in units (so it will be treated like a minecraft tool), but it would have 4 numbers representing the percentages of each mana type (100 mana points, into 4 categories). The crystals that spawn on the ground are rare (about 1/20 of the frequency of the sticks on the ground). and have a variation of up to 5 mana points from being balanced (so from -5 to +5, being adjusted to sum up to 100 points). (So 20 in each category, with the rest of 20 points randomly split into 4)

The mana flowing will require the use of an alchemical table. The same as with the crafting table, everyone have one in their inventory (the flowing button), which allows up to 2 items (to the sides) having their mana flown into a thrid one (in the center). There will also be variations of those crystals. For example, if you have a crystal with (ground-water-air-fire) 25-23-28-24 and 30 durability and a mix of dirt, rocks and sand (crafted in the default inventory, from those elements) you can use default alchemical table (the flowing table from the flowing menu, in your inventory) to send mana from another crystal to that mix (which is crafted with 100% durability, and loses durability the more mana recives, and when reaching 0 is consumed), resulting in the mix being replaced by a man-made crystal (in this case, it will get 1 mana point subtracted from each mana type and have 3 mana points added to the type of the mix; different mixes might have different changes in mana points; in this example, 28-22-27-23 and 1 mana, and the more you keep it in the flowing table, the more it will transfer mana, and if you use ground and air mixes a few more times, it would be best for pressure spells, which can be used to make better crystals).

The more mana you send it, the more it can increase it's mana pool, and if you flow both mana and another element (such as having 2 crystals like that and one of that mix), you will recive an item with modified stats (in the example of this case, you would lose the mix and crystal in the center, have it's mana added to the new crystal, which would deviate from the previous crystal in the center by the ammount that mix is using, without having to lose mana. Also, if you want to send mana of one type, you will dissipate around you mana of the other types. So you would need to spend more time to meditate, to get that back. And you will need to spend a certain ammount of mana, in order to change the attributs. For example, 100 mana would be how much the stone-tier mana crystal can hold, and to level up one such crystal you would need 20% of that. So one full stone tier mana crystal, by recieving 20 more mana through alchemy, can become one copper tier mana crystal, which can hold 2 times as much mana, capped at 32 000. The difference between Mithril and Oricharium tier being that the Oricharium would be the next tier because processing something can increase it's level.

Next, by having more mana vein engines, you can move mana, but there shall also be blocks which can absorb mana from the enviroment, 1% of each block from the cube they're in (same, with N one of the following: 1,3,5,7,9, the N=1 being for Stone and Copper, and N=2 being for Iron and Steel.


Summoning & Golems

 Alright, I know some of you might be against this, but I think one shall be able to make golems at Silver level. What exactly? Using porkchop, bones and zombie flash, one shall be able to create a Goblin, which can be a re-purposed dog (which accepts all kinds of food) and which, if given an axe will chop trees, if given a weapon will fight alongside, and if given a vessel will hold it (be it normal, or large) and follow you. Also, if given a crystal, it will meditate and flow mana into the crystal (1 mana point flowing every second). Given a random number between 1 and 100, both included, you get that number, and subtract the ammount of each type of mana, and if the result is negative, that's the type of mana type to add, if positive, continue with the next type of mana. It would be easier to immagine it has having 4 ammounts of distinct mana, which are converted into one type and remembering the percentage of each type. And the opposite can be done for when fusing crystals. Example of meditation with a crystal (one tool can be used for meditating by default, different constructions a plater can make can be used for using more than one tool when meditating): 72 obtained, the crystal is 28-22-27-23. So 72-28=44>0 so it's not ground mana, 44-22=22>0 so not water mana, 22-28=-6<=0 so air mana point added. You keep your mana in 4 "meters", but an item holds the total ammount of mana and the percentages of each type of mana.

The summoned Goblin can use weapons and be healed with food and carry things, but you can also summon a Golem. Both the Goblin and Golem require lots of loot to be prepared before hand, as well as an Alchemic Summoning Table, but a Golem is cheaper and easier to create, but more expensive to maintain. A golem can be made out of sand (weak against air attacks), dirt (weak against water attacks), water (weak against fire attacks), stone (weak against water) for the Copper tier (so a Stone level player cannot create it), all of which require a core, which acts as a random piece of (invisible) armor. Also, a golem can carry things, but cannot use a weapon. However, it has more HP than the Goblin, and the Goblin would be Iron tier, the Steel tier would have your won Skeletons (same as the goblins, but they only accept bows as weapons, and they won't break them). The Silver would let you summon rabbits, and gold would let you summon a pig, mithril will let you summon a cow and a sheep, and oricharium will let you summon a bear (to defend your base; you will have defensive gear, by then).


Leveling up the player

Every player starts as a Level 0 Stone tier, and requires to meditate for certain ammounts of time. Once the level 9 is reached, a certain set of conditions should be reached, in order to level up to the next tier. Also, to level up from a tier's level to the next, one needs to meditate for a certain ammount of time, and each next level and next tier increases the time required to be waited. And I mean without moving. After a while, it will get difficult to not die of hunger, but this is where the items you make come into play, since you can enchant both armor and weapons and tools, so you would need to enchant some armor with regeneration, to beat the hunger. After leveling up, you can finally move, and that includes eating, to satify your hunger.

To give you an idea of how much one would have to wait, the each Nth level of Mth tier takes M^2+N*3+10 minutes (rounded by floor), so to reach the last level of Mithril (the level at which you can make Oricharium items), from the level below it, you would need 96 minutes. For you to reach Stone L1 you will need 13 minutes, and to reach Stone L9 from L0 you would need 10*9+3*(1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9) = 90+3*(9*10/2) = 90+3*45 = 5*45 = 225 minutes of waiting, in total. You probably won't spend that much time unmoved, since the game is harsh in itself, and you will also need to eat and drink and, for leveling up, you will need quite a bit of items, so a few more hours of gameplay, for the test to pass the first tier, into the second. That would increase your mana pool by the number of tier times 10, and the mana absorption by the number of the tier. Also, each level of the tier increases the mana absorption and mana pool by 1 (one). And at Stone level you can hold 1 mana and regenerate one mana per minute (tick). So if two people meditate on the same block, and have the same level, the first one to arrive there would absorb the most. Also, by moving around, you consume mana from the blocks you're on, every seconds (same goes for the other cretures), and that mana is not absorbed, and is equal with your tier (so you don't drain the block you're in, if you're at a high level), but you also lose mana every one tick (minute), as every other mana source out there.


Note: There should be more I can say about this. I will come with more details, but in the meanwhile, feel free to post your opinions about and suggestions for this type of implementation of magic in-game. I have still not covered the item enchanting, since there is much that can be done, such as using a water jug as the target item, a water mix (as a consumable, but a water crystal can be used instead, repeatetly, while the mix would be consumed, but is cheaper) and a mana crystal (as a mana source) to create a water jug with infinite water. Also, maybe a flower pot with a crop inside (use a pot on one side and a crystal on the other, to "enchant" it, then the enchanted pot on one side and a seed on the other, to plant the plant, which cannot be separed from the pot, unless destroyed) which uses mana (flowing) to grow crops (the mana crystan on one side and the potted plant on the other, and after some mana you get a 90% chance for a product and 10% chance for a seed)


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TFC for 1.7.10 is no longer being developed. There is a suggestion section for TFC2. There is also ability to add things to niche things like this to TFC via addons.


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Thanks! I didn't know that. I will post there, as well.
Have a good day!


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