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    • Crysyn

      Only help if you can be helpful

      Hey All, A topic has come up of late in the IRC channel in regards to the general feel of the forums and the community that supports them. Things have progressed further than I would have liked with out this being addressed more publicly because I would much rather have snubbed this out sooner rather than later.. but I have been busy. Here is the general rule I would like people to follow: Wheaton's Law "Don't be a dick." Those of you from the IRC channel know that this is the only rule I ask people in there to follow and we generally have a good and lively time chatting about all manner of things. This is basic rule that just about everyone understands and I am going to expand it to the forums from here moving forward. If you can not help people in a helpful and polite manner then I simply ask you to stop. Now I generally take a back seat to moderating the forums as I like to participate in the suggestions forum fairly heavily at times and would rather do so as a forums user than a moderator. But I am also fairly well known for being the person who constantly puts their foot down and so I am stepping up and doing so on here. If you find yourself unable to respond to a message politely then I ask that you do not respond. This mostly focuses on the increasing level of hostility found within the Suggestion forum as well as the Server forum. I do not care if this is the 30th some odd time you have seen someone make the same suggestion. Or even if the new post on an older topic is one entry above the old one. I expect the members of this forum to respond politely to the user, new or old, and point to the older topic if it applies and even go the extra step to suggest they either add in new information or to summarize the outcome of the previous discussion based upon the new post's entry into it. That is what we are here for, that is why I close most topics instead of deleting them, so that they can be found and referenced down the road. The next topic is the slew of derailment attempts I have seen as of late. If you want to have fun and joke around that is what the off topic forum is for and pretty much anything goes there. I do not expect to read a suggestion thread and have to go through 3 pages of image memes people have shot back and forth. Quite simply this is a waste of my time to read and then have to clean up. Now for the summary. I am going to start taking a more active role, especially in policing the suggestion forum, and handing out warn levels to people whom I see doing this. These will be indiscriminate and applied not to just the first person who derails or is impolite on a topic or response, but to everyone whom follows the lead of that person. As I do not like doing things with out giving you all warning this post shall serve as that warning. If you have a desire to bring this topic up with me then I invite you to do so on the IRC channel. Lets raise the level of quality and grow the community. Let us not descend into the quality often found on the minecraft or league of legend forums. There is simply no need for that here. Be passionate about things, just do not be abusive.
    • Kittychanley

      Offline Servers

      Recently I've seen a few server listings showing up on the first page of the Servers forum that have been closed for an extended period of time, but have recently gotten a reply from a new member who didn't realize the server is offline. To help prevent this from happening in the future, it would be greatly appreciated if you could use the report function on the original post of any servers that have been confirmed as offline, so that the topic may be locked. If you are the admin of a server and plan on taking the server offline, please use the report function on the original post of your topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be locked. If you are the admin of a server that has a locked topic, and would wish to bring the server back online, please use the report function on the original post of the topic to let the TFC Staff know that the topic should be unlocked. As always, please remember to follow rule #3 of the servers forum and update your topic title to contain the version of TFC that the server is currently running. You can do so by editing the OP, and then clicking on "Use Full Editor."
Darmo

Swamps Suggestion

5 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

So a thing that's always bugged me a little is that swamps in minecraft and tfc aren't really terribly different from plains or other grassy areas.  In fact, in TFC1 I find swamps to be the ideal settlement location, as they often have large bodies of freshwater, with lots of flat land around.  The TFC2 swamps seem to have a lot of 'noisy' little islands, and tall grass, and presumably cattails and lily pads in the future.  Which I like in that it provides a markedly different look that is clearly not just a pond.  But I think they could be better.

I think it would be better if swamps were a forboding place, that was not necessarily an automatically attractive settlement area.  I realize it's very early alpha and there's possibly things planned but not implemented, but given that we are in the world-gen stage, I wanted to get some ideas out now.

BOG TILES

Spoiler

The first suggestion is bog tiles.  Bog tiles would be solid and walkable, but would slow the player, like soul-sand.  They would NOT be tillable.  Bog tiles could be for a certain radius around the swamp, and also all the little islands, and even the parts below the water.   They would take a LONG time to dig up (like obsidian-scale time) to discourage the player from massively terraforming them away.  Moreover, dirt, sand, or gravel tiles, in a swamp hex, surrounded by bog or water on 3 or 4 sides would, upon random tic, turn into a bog tile.  Or maybe a certain number of random tics.  Dirt perhaps taking fewer tics than gravel.  By requiring 3+ adjacent water/bog, you won't have bogs always eventually expanding into a square, as you would if it were just 2 adjacents.  Conversely, bog tiles placed in non-swamp hexes will eventually turn to dirt.  If there are types of bog tile to match stone types, then they simply turn to that dirt type.  If there's only one bog tile, then they adopt the native stone type of the island they're on (assuming that's code-accessible).  Bog tiles may or may not count as hydrating tiles.  If so, maybe at reduced range of 2. 

QUICKSAND

Spoiler

swamp hexes could generate quicksand.  It might look only subtley different from bogs.  Quicksand takes even longer to dig up than obsidian.  Basically long enough then when you enter, and can't move, and start sinking, you cannot dig up the tile before you submerge and suffocate.  There could be a mechanic where a player with rope can use that rope on a player stuck in quicksand, to teleport them to the rescuing player's square.  If you're in single player....maybe let them use rope on a nearby tree to escape? Maybe also provide a toggle for quicksand for those that don't want to deal with it.  It also sucks up items thrown into it slowly (a way to test for it).  This does mean that if you die, some portion of your items are likely to be lost.  If the player places normal sand in a swamp hex, and it's adjacent to a certain number of bog/water blocks, it eventually, via random ticks, turns to quicksand.  Quicksand could also only appear in sub-tropical/tropical swamps, as I think it's kind of rare in temperate and colder areas?

VOID STATES

Spoiler

If dug up (and if possible in code) the bog/quicksand tile is replaced by a water source block.  It would be great if there were a mechanic that actually tracks the 'void' state of each block.  So the most common state would be air, but then there would be water.  So in a void-water block, you can place other blocks to remove the water, but if you remove that block, the water comes back.   This mechanic would be useful for aquifers (if they were ever a thing) and the pumps that players would use to convert the void-type-water to void-type-air.  In a swamp, this would ensure that the player can't dig up a bog tile, obliterate the source water with planks or something, and then build a basement or other feature with open air.  Blocks with a void-water state in swamp hexes could also turn dirt/sand/gravel to bogs/quicksand, on their own, with no adjacent water or bog.  Since void states are world-gen created, there would be no risk of the bog expanding beyond it's original bounds.  Speaking of which, pumps (assuming they became a thing) could be placed in swamps to slowly over time (via random tics) convert surrounding bog into regular soil (and the associated void states to air).  Moreover, void states could be used (and I know this has been suggested and rejected before, but just saying) in a toxic gas pocket mechanic, requiring use of air pumps to ventilate certain toxic gas pockets from mines (If not violently rejected immediately here, I'll make a separate suggestion thread for that).

SWAMP CROPS
 

Spoiler

 

So we've covered the basics of what could make swamps unattractive.  Now we give a reason to visit.  Certain crops will ONLY grow on bog tiles.  Reeds, sugar cane, and rice, for starters.  Hopefully other herbs and useful plants (ginger maybe?).  But especially, mushrooms.  Mushrooms of certain very useful types will only grow on bog tiles.  This could perhaps be handled a couple ways.  I said earlier bogs are not tillable, but maybe they are (via hoe only, no plow if plows are ever a thing).  They probably shouldn't be called 'tilled' if avoidable.  Maybe 'worked' or 'prepared'.  They could have small holes instead of furrows.  Or, another option, you don't have to 'till' bog tiles, but once the crops are harvested, they leave a 1-voxel tall debris pile that must be cleared before they can be planted on again.  Bog tiles maybe don't deplete nutrients, however  when you harvest the crops you have to re-work them again (till or remove debris).  So you trade nutrient management for constant clearing/tilling. 

Mushrooms maybe don't require tilled bog though.  They might have their own special conditions.  Some might simply grow on bog, some might only grow on living trees in a swamp hex, some on dead wood in a swamp (meaning dead logs will have to be a naturally spawning set-piece) and some maybe only on logs, in a swamp hex, that have water on at least 2 sides (basically submerged except the top faces) and also the log itself must be in a void-water block.  This again requires that specific set piece to appear in swamps so they can naturally spawn in the first place.   It will be harder to farm as the player either must place logs in existing open water, or dig up the slow-to-dig bog tiles to create more open water.

 

CRAFTABLES
 

Spoiler

 

Quicksand would encourage players to carry rope while in swamps, but there could also be 'bog shoes' which would be sort of like snowshoes.  They're made from leather and sticks, and wear out over time (ongoing use for leather!).  They reduce movement penalty on bogs, and provide a very slow movement allowing the player to escape quicksand.

Structure-wise, there could a 'dock', which would be very useful and desireable in both normal water, and swamps.  If placed on solid land or bogs, it provides a walkable surface.  It would use a 1 or two voxel thick floor, a few voxels above the surface, with small posts.  Much more elegant than clunky docks made of entire planks and logs.  It would be great if it were a dynamic tile that would arrange itself based on adjacent docks tiles, like how stairs in vanilla change when other stairs are placed next to them in certain configurations.  They can even be placed in water, but then there's no deck, just the pilings.  Presumably to be topped with a deck.

 

SUMMARY

So hope I've painted a good picture.  Movement slowing bog tiles and deadly quicksand, in combination with not being able to grow normal crops in bogs would, I think, make swamps a place that is more of a place you visit for special materials, less a place you settle.  It would differentiate them more from plains and other normal dirt-covered areas.  There would of course be special mobs and non-crop plants, maybe fish.  But I wanted to get these basic 'world-gen' portions put out here while TFC2 is still in early stages.  I think it would be worthwhile, and bring more variety to the world.  I am of course volunteering to create all models and textures, if the devs want.

Edited by Darmo
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3 hours ago, Darmo said:

BOG TILES

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The first suggestion is bog tiles.  Bog tiles would be solid and walkable, but would slow the player, like soul-sand.  They would NOT be tillable.  Bog tiles could be for a certain radius around the swamp, and also all the little islands, and even the parts below the water.   They would take a LONG time to dig up (like obsidian-scale time) to discourage the player from massively terraforming them away.  Moreover, dirt, sand, or gravel tiles, in a swamp hex, surrounded by bog or water on 3 or 4 sides would, upon random tic, turn into a bog tile.  Or maybe a certain number of random tics.  Dirt perhaps taking fewer tics than gravel.  By requiring 3+ adjacent water/bog, you won't have bogs always eventually expanding into a square, as you would if it were just 2 adjacents.  Conversely, bog tiles placed in non-swamp hexes will eventually turn to dirt.  If there are types of bog tile to match stone types, then they simply turn to that dirt type.  If there's only one bog tile, then they adopt the native stone type of the island they're on (assuming that's code-accessible).  Bog tiles may or may not count as hydrating tiles.  If so, maybe at reduced range of 2. 

I was just thinking of posting a thread suggesting an "angry bees" lingering potion effect whenever you chop a tree with a beehive in it or break a beehive open by hand.

So what if there is a "biting mosquitoes" lingering potion effect that spawns from bog tiles?

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I feel like that may be a bit far-reaching, if any and every bog tile had such a possibility just for walking on it.  But if there's swarms of insects that the player can see, avoid, or take repellent measures against, that's something the player can understand and react to, and I think would go over better.

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The player will learn that walking into a swamp during warm weather results in unavoidable mosquito bites, just like in real life.

Also, lingering potions do create an area of effect cloud (insect swarm) that, once spawned, the player can see and avoid if they are paying attention.

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Posted (edited)

I really like the void state idea. Removing a block and having a type of water would be awesome. I also think that vary tall grasses in swamps, between 3 and 5 blocks high would be pretty neat.

Edited by Stroam
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