OswaldZeid

This might should go in the Support forum as a bug report, but I'm not sure if it's intended behavior or not, and it didn't fit the standard bug report format terribly well - posting it here instead, to see what the community thinks about the subject. I haven't been playing TFC for very long, started just before the .79 update came out. In .78 mining was pretty trivial, and I don't think I ever really used support beams - for the most part, I just mined out the vein and dodged the occasional falling cobblestone. Since .79 my mining has become decidedly more orderly, and I've gone through several iterations while trying to refine my mining style. I've gotten to the point where I can mostly avoid cave-ins with proper mining techniques - but digging upwards has continued to be a point of frustration, so after the .79.7 update today I decided to take a look at the source, and see what had changed - and it appears that mining up safely is currently impossible. For those following along at home:https://github.com/Deadrik/TFCraft/blob/49499c520f35adf9367fcb28a2d498f041ab27ff/src/Common/com/bioxx/tfc/Blocks/Terrain/BlockCollapsable.java#L159 This method gets called with the block's coordinates (i,j,k) randomly when blocks are mined nearby, to check if there are supports around that keep it from starting a cave-in. The first for loop iterates over the y-dimension, between -1 and 1, inclusive on both ends - so we're checking for supports on 3 y-levels, centered on the block we're checking. Inversely, for any given support, it'll potentially be able to support blocks on 3 layers. So, for a standard 3x3 mineshaft cross-section: XXXXX XXXXX XVHVX XV VXXV VX XXXXX (x is stone, v is vertical support, h is horizontal support)The green stone is supported, and red isn't. If we want to dig upwards to either mine out minerals, or build a shaft upwards, we start to mine out the blocks above the arch to make room for another layer of supports, causing the blocks above them to fail both the canFallBelow and the!isNearSupport part - so we get a cave-in, if the RNG picks one of the unsupported blocks. And since these blocks are going to fall on the supports and break them, things can get worse - every dropped piece of cobblestone needs to be cleared to replace the supports, and can potentially fire the RNG shotgun when mined. While in general the mining mechanics are an improvement over .78, I think they need some tweaking. A commit a few days ago changed the original < to <= increasing the range a stone looks in upwards, which extended the support's range downward - so unless I'm missing something, mining upwards safely has never been really possible. Not sure of the solution, gameplay-wise. Logically, the old range makes the most sense: [-1, 1) means a horizontal support will provide support on its layer and the one above it - or those layers that are in contact with the support. The range [-1, 1] gives us support on the layer below, which means you can safely do 3x3 mines and mine ore in the walls without cave-ins - which is handy. However, the lack of a safe way to dig upwards is a real pain. Realistically, digging upwards without supports should be really hazardous - but there should be a way to do it with supports, I'd think. Perhaps buff the supports vertically, and to balance it out and further encourage supports, make mining a block from the bottom even more likely to cause a cave-in? Thoughts?

Mining is pretty fun with the new update, and once you get the hang of the supports it isn't too annoying. My only complaint with the system is how it interacts with natural caves - mining anywhere near them causes frequent cave-ins, and they're nearly impossible to support since y-level change a lot, it'd require supports all over the place. Combined with the fact you can't light them up, discovering a cave near a key ore deposit is a real bummer now.