dockwithme

I don't think this method is any slower than having to wait for the tress to 'magically' appear as we do now. I think the OP means to use the code base of how fruit trees grow gradually and implement that for normal trees. Then, instead of something popping right up out of the ground, with no warning, we could see the growth cycle of the tree. It would actually allow wood to be chopped more quickly: think about it. You can't chop down a tree BEFORE it pops up. But if the growth to that point was gradual and you could see it, then you could essentially chop the tree down earlier in the life cycle (with the obvious penalty that you won't get nearly as much wood).

I just take a few minutes, let the OCD kick in and punch a bunch of grass! In a few minutes (depending on how lucky you are) you can have a decent amount of seeds. Make a hoe, tile some earth, and plant them near the water! It's a great 'set it and forget it' method of food, then when they are harvest-able, instead of eating plain old pork chops or steaks, experiment with some meals... Who knows what cool effects you might find... Useless? Nah. Unnecessary? I could give you that one... If you have a bunch of animals around you, or killed some on your way to your current location, you're pretty set in terms of food for a while.

Maybe another way to encourage specialization is to implement a true economy. The only way I would just be a lumberjack and chop down trees is if I could then trade those tress in for other materials. I wouldn't have time to go mining, so I could then buy ores. Or if I didn't even like smithing, I could trade in an even greater amount of material for a full blown set of armor. This would also solve single player issues. Have a station that spawns - much like how villages do - that acts as a trading depot. Or make it craftable. Or maybe you have to set-up a village and let it become inhabited. I know I've heard there will be no NPCs, but a trading depot without people would be lonely...

Generally, anything in the hot bar would ALSO be in your inventory. Right now, the hot bar acts as extra inventory. With this new suggested style, it wouldn't be extra inventory, but rather a true hot bar - a spot for easy access to things you have in your inventory. Think of other games, mostly RPG's. The potions you have in your hot bar are the same ones you have in your inventory. When you equip the potions, you don't lose them in the inventory (like we do here in MC). (I should bring that up in the other inventory thread - the difference between a true hot bar and extra inventory that is just displayed in screen.) I think the visual aspect is of less concern. Have the grid always be visible, just slightly transparent. When you place in an object, the opaqueness of the object will hide the grid behind it, but you could still see the grid lines coming up to it. Eh, I guess that's hard to explain. Anyways, TFC should have a way more awesome looking inventory! I can see it with a brown leather backing, strapped up with thick thread and...... But, yes, a bunch of this has been brought up in the other thread I think.

EDIT: FML, THIS IS THE DISCUSSION FORUM....dunk would you kindly move this to the suggestions forum? ;D So i was discussing the minigame thing with dockwithme on the specializations topic, and i came to an epiphany. (shoot me if i spell it wrong, i just resurrect anyway ) in many a game there is the instant click and it happens like vanilla minecraft, but in some games there is the usage of force behind your swing which you have to time yourself. if we would apply this to TFC, we could employ a minigame-ish type of playing which makes you swing the axe at a certain force for maximum effect, allowing trees to be cut down at varying speeds. (no, not with a GUI, you guys are better at fleshing stuff out than i am so go ahead) this same thing could apply for fishing, combat, and mining, par example: if you hit the sweet spot on a specific rock, it'd pop out the block next to it as well, or if you get the right force behind your swing, you do extra damage. (and no, i dont mean use max force always) in the usage: if you hold down the left mouse button, you charge up the force, release and it chops. this could also replace trees as a set of blocks to a full scale tree with varying gradations of being chopped down (that dont regenerate, so it'd actually be like 10 seperate entities, 1 through to 10/10 chopped ) oh, and for those that snipe me without mentioning why, your name will be written down in this book 3;) There's your post, Killster550. I like these ideas. I can see a timing aspect come out of this, which I think could be cool. Wind up a swing, let go and hit at the right spot with the right momentum = best possible outcome. Of course, if you were better at timing than me, and had practiced it a lot more, you would be gathering more material than I would be. I kinda like it... But it all lies on how well it can be implemented in-game... Quoting Jerigod here: I have felt the same way while playing. I've always tended to do things for myself for the main reason that I could. I didn't need anyone to mine for me - why would I? I could do it myself just the same. The only difference was whether or not I wanted to spend the time doing it. If skill-based/advantage systems were in place where one person was largely better at doing something, then I could see a community forming. It really falls to one word: BALANCE. How do you make the game playable and enjoyable for someone who WANTS to be alone, while making it worthwhile for others to specialize inside a community and not be overrun by someone who is equally good at your job, and then some.

Welcome to the new age of technology where we can do whatever we want! Let you mind go free! Ok that was lame. How about a minigame that requires no GUI, something in the world - nah - on the actual block you are working, that serves as the minigame. A special kind of movement pattern, combination, etc. Someone said something like in this thread right? It could be interrupted without penalty (much how everything else does - mining/chopping down trees) which would eliminate you being attacked while working. I can see this for mining ore, but hmm.. I don't know exactly what combination of movements could be useful for chopping down trees. It would be great also if you could just take the low road and mine/chop normally, receive the minimum harvest. But if you took the (short) time to do this action, you receive more for your efforts. Just throwing ideas out there.

I do think that style of game play where you more you do/use something, the better/faster you get at it. If you don't use it, it slowly degrade (much like IRL). Yea by mini-game, I really mean like how the smithing works (I did have that in there somewhere among those lines and lines of text.... ugh). It's more like a small task to complete --> something that requires attention/strategy in order to complete. That way, people can't mindlessly do it, and the people that spend time on it get better (and faster) at completing the task.

Phew, this is gonna be long. I'm hitting all avenues on this one... Skill-based specialization: So, (from what I hear here) I know that Bioxx and Dunk don't want to have RPG/skill-based elements in the game, but it seems like this would be a great way to handle things like this. If I'm a lumberjack, and I chop down trees all day, shouldn't I be faster at doing it than someone who doesn't chop down tress? If we both pick up the same metal axe and start swinging, I'd be pretty pissed if someone else could do it just as fast as I could. A good balance then would be to have skills being used raise, and skills not being used decrease. That in itself would breed specialization. Though it also doesn't pigeon-hole people into a job; if you want to mine instead, go for it, you just won't be as fast as someone who has been mining for the past few months... And don't give me that bullcrap, 'We'll I'm an awesome person and I can mine and farm and chop down trees like a legendary myth!" because let's face it, few people IRL are masters at many jobs. The only way to be a master at something is to do it all the time - people can be decent at many things by balancing out the time they spend, but they will never be the at the highest level unless they commit to it. AGAIN, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THIS SINCE APPARENTLY THE DEVS DON'T WANT SKILL-BASED GAMEPLAY, BUT I STILL BELIEVE THIS WOULD WORK (and be fun!). Note: The above would also be a great way to implement death penalties, as when you die, you also loose some (or all) of you skills. Chores vs. Jobs: Not to offend anyone IRL, but maybe let's take a new look at these 'jobs.' Maybe let's say chopping trees is more of a chore than a job. If we look at it that way, no one should be specializing in a chore. Everyone should be able to chop down a tree equally well. Other things like PLANTING seeds is a chore; although you could argue that harvesting can be a skilled job: the better you are, the more you can harvest. For mining, I can see this both ways. Anyone can just pick away at rocks, but a more experienced miner will cause way less cave-ins. As for prospecting, that has proven itself as a purely skill-based job and I really like how it works in-game now. Mining ore when you find it, should also be skill-based: better = more ore. Smithing has a great start as a skill-based job as well, where the better you are, the more durability your items have. So I think we could ignore the CHORES in terms of specialization because they require no skill - let everyone do them. They are boring and no one wants to be 'the guy who chops down tress.' If you need some logs, go chop down a tree, no big deal. But if you need some crops - get the farmer: he will get you way more out of that plant than you could. If you need some armor - ask the metal-smith: he will make way better armor than you can. Ideas for skills (adding mini-game-like activities): For chopping wood: what if you when chopped down the tree, it brought up a small mini-game. Something quick, like how the smithing works. Here is where you would be 'cutting' up the tree into logs. (Here is where the skill comes in). The better at the mini-game you are, the more logs this tree produces. It's actually the same concept used with chopping logs into planks where the saw (the better tool) creates more planks. Only here, the better you are the game, the more logs you get. For mining ore: Same concept; add a mini-game when mining ore to determine how many ore pieces you get. In the end, the real problem is how to add SPECIALIZED ACTIVITIES that require that extra work mastering mini-games (that's all smithing is: a really well-balanced mini-game -- Hell, I don't consider it a mini-game when I play it). The balancing all comes down to making it usable by people who DON'T know what they're doing, but also master-able by people and giving them bonuses for doing so. Ugh, I don't even know anymore...

So what your saying is use an encumbrance system like RPGs use (thinking of Skyrim). You can carry a whole world's load of bags of seeds because they are small and weigh less compared to a pile of dirt. Only fill up the first 9 slots of the hotbar -- the only reason you want it to expand/contract is because of the weight limit, if you've reached the limit with 3 items, don't show another slot, am I right? If you have 9 bags of seeds, and can carry more, you can find them in your expanded inventory?) I get all that but I also could see using the 2 slot hotbar -- why are we using 9 slots? Let me explain with some MGS UI controls. I think it COULD translate well, although it would require tweaking to the code of how the inventory works and also to the control system. This is the original MGS inventory system. Two hotbars, categorized. For us, left would be tools/weapons. Right would be building materials. In the game, when you hit and hold left trigger, a menu pops up. Hitting up/down will scroll through your items to equip (sort of how you can mousewheel through item in our hotbars now). We could use new keybindings for these (q for left, e for right, then scroll to move through items). *** This would also mean left click would control left items, right click the right items. This kind of breaks items that use both left and right clicks. ***

Like metal gear solid UI?

Ahahaha! --> Going in my signature for sure.

I thought I remembered someone saying you can't break tiled dirt bc it would be easy to move around blocks with different nutrient levels or something. I'm sure it's something they are still trying to find a solution for. Edit: Also, I didn't know that the nutrient levels only worked for metal hoes, thanks!

Gosh, I should be bludgeoned for posting without reading the WHOLE thread (I read most), but I like the idea of sheaths/quivers/backpacks/sacks --> specialized personal storage vs specialized external storage (which is what I hear is making it's way into the game). Start with a small inventory, create portable, personal storage to carry things around that are specialized in what they can carry. If someone already stated this in a post I didn't read, count this as a vote for that! Oh, could you possibly drop these backpacks/sacks to the ground? I would imagine you could do that with sacks of dirt, sand, etc. Wouldn't that make them alternatives to the external permanent storage? Are they simple to make? Are they a necessity? --> After thinking about this for awhile, I wonder where the fine line between believable and monotonous is going to be.

I'd say more like wearing a speedo... People warn you not too, but when you wear it anyway, it ruins the beach for everyone else. Oh wait this is an international forum, hope I didn't offend anyone there! In this example it's an old wrinkly guy no one wants to see less covered up.

The only way I see this possible is if it's one of those 2-person band saws!

Yea unlike other areas of Minecraft, or even other games, people around here don't like numbers. Especially the developers; they want the game to be challenging, and part of that challenge is not knowing what to do, and experimenting. I see that you have done just that, so bravo, but people don't want to know the precise mechanics from you - they'd rather do it themselves. I don't give a mouse poop either way: take the numbers or don't. I don't want them, therefore it's easy for me to not look at them and memorize/use them. But people around here who are adamantly against giving out numbers (and you'll find plenty here), aren't going to like it when you do, and they won't listen to your arguments. It's just something you have to come to terms with...

Hmm I don't know anything about how tress grow in TFC (haven't done any experimenting) or if it's like vanilla, but do those stumps stop other trees from growing? Man, I could see that really turning into a wasteland of stumps!

There really needs to be something more that SMACKS you in the face when you enter these forums that states: Do not post numbers. I don't remember seeing anything, and sure don't read those threads that say, 'Read this before posting!' Just saying... Far too many people come in here with numbers, not knowing that it is not what the developers want being shown here. I think if everyone knew that, we'd have less of these. <-- I didn't know about this rule until people starting complaining in a thread when someone posted numbers... On the topic though, I understand both sides. Obviously people don't want numbers. But it doesn't tell you how to make a perfect tool! Even if you stared those numbers in the face and memorized them, it wouldn't mean the mini-game would be completely fixed for you now! You'd still have to do calculations to figure out how to work the ingot for the tool... And if you've spent any amount of time on smithing this shouldn't matter anyways. I don't remember what the names are of the buttons, but I sure as hell know how much they push the marker! That's almost like saying I know button 10 moves the marker 6 spaces to the right... Just put a number 6 on it! I have a combination of button clicks to shape an ingot (it's not hard), that seems almost cheaty in itself.. So maybe we need some randomness in the aspect of the game as well? Ok I need to stop talking... Sure, take the numbers down. Don't spoil it for the people who are sensitive to this.

Oh hmm. I might be a dummy. Maybe I was using a metal axe... That would make sense. As you can see my brain doesn't always work as intended. Might explain this sinus headache...

I still don't understand; Dunk is saying one thing, people are giving examples otherwise. Last I checked the only way you use up an entire stone axe is when you chop down a mega tree like kapok or sequoia. Is the durability you lose on your saw that menial that you'd rather use it's durability up? I would think that would be better used to cut planks/etc. Unless the saw cuts down twice as fast, which I didn't think was true. People say it takes forever to cut down a tree with an axe; when I tested between the two (saw and axe) I coulda swore they were a lot closer in time than that would suggest. But again I have no evidence (OR NUMBERS!) so I'm just going off of what I remember to be true. Of course, I have been wrong before! And it won't be the last!

8 planks!? Woo wee! I did not know that. That's fantastic. I don't see how they could make the axe worse at everything: that would mean it would be obsolete once you found metal. But as Dunk said, if your tools are going to take durability for every log that falls anyway, it must be more efficient to make a bunch of stone axes to do that work. Yes, it might seem monotonous to make them, but the amount of time it takes to heat up ore, work to ingot, shape to axe head is probably more than knapping a few rocks together, plus you can use that ore for something more useful.

Are you sure? I coulda swore I tested this out: whether breaking a plank block was faster with a saw or axe. For me, it seemed the saw broke them down quicker. The only thing it couldn't do better was chop a tree down, you want an axe for that. And a saw makes more planks out of a log?? I did not know that...

UPDATE: Episode 2 is up. I make my first tools, find a vein of cassiterite, put together a charcoal pit, and get some early crops going! Planning on it. Was a busy weekend, hoping to get the next one recorded this week.

Secret passages in between walls. Sounds awesome.

Thanks everyone. Back on topic!? Where were we?