Daeruin

Recently I've had a yen to make TFC a little more challenging. The first thing that came to mind was to try a desert spawn. Luckily, Kitty and someone else posted a few recently. It's definitely challenging. I have no trees and have only found four sticks within the first several hundred blocks. There's plenty of seaweed, and some dirt nearby with some crops, so I shouldn't starve too badly. But building a decent shelter and finding ore is going to be tough. I'm looking forward to the challenge.

Has anyone else tried to survive in the desert? Any tips?

What else have you tried to make TFC more challenging?

I haven't been to the forums for a few months, and I'm glad to see this! I came on specifically because I was wondering about desert seeds. I think I might try it out for a while, just for that extra bit of challenge.

Also keep in mind that you wont be flying TFC2 unless you're cheating. If it looks ok from roughly ground level, then I'm ok with it. 

Lots of people use mini maps though. I've noticed some oddities in TFC1 maps because of that. There are more straight lines than you would realize if you weren't looking at an overhead using a mini map.

Cool, I'm glad you liked the seed. I've been enjoying it for several months now. It was my first seed and definitely the best I've played so far. Beginner's luck, I guess.

I've seen the chickens but have yet to find cows. Where did you see them exactly?

One thing that might make me more likely to use ceramic bowls in the late game would be if there was a pottery skill that actually had some kind of benefit. That would be cool.

Because the straw poll is so evenly divided, I'm just going to go with the 50% chance, 2 bowls per 5 clay as a compromise.

Not exactly what I wanted, but better than before, IMO. Glad you are here to listen to us fans.

Also, another argument that came up for leaving it the way it is is that players now have to worry about having an extra inventory slot open for the bowls they get back when they are out travelling. Before, you would leave with 4 slots full of salads in a vessel, and end up with 4 empty slots for other stuff. Now you'll leave with 4 slots full of salads in a vessel, and only have 3 slots once you've eaten them all, using the 4th to keep your precious dirty dishes.

I don't get it. When I'm traveling a long ways, I usually bring extra food to make more salads/sandwiches when I run out. In that case I'd love to keep my bowls. But if you want the open slots and don't care about bowls, just throw them away. You're not forced to keep them.

I appreciate the explanation. I guess I don't see the appeal in keeping pottery a big part of the late game. Personally, I find the constant need for new bowls annoying, and that just makes me less likely to do it. I'm not arguing that bowls should never break. I think they should break, and you would still need to make bowls—just less often. Either way, I would love the savings on pit kiln materials.

Interesting that the straw poll survey shows only a slight preference for option 1, while the poll here on the topic shows a huge preference for option 1.

If you want more pottery, maybe vessels should have a small chance of breaking as well, so you would need to make more occasionally.

Just curious, what's so terrible about the south?

Glad you liked it.

Out of the options given, I would vote for the first. I'm happy about the idea of using fewer materials for my pit kilns, at the very least.

I understand the gold pan breaking but I've never once broke a bowl eating a salad irl.

I've broken bowls before. Once in a blue moon they get dropped or knocked off the counter.

This isn't an argument of reality, it's an argument of balanced gameplay.

If you're concerned about balance, what are you balancing, exactly? I don't see it. Why would the bowl break any more often than the jug?

Resurrecting this post because I'm so unutterably sick of firing clay bowls every few days with the corresponding cost in logs. It makes no sense whatsoever that ceramic bowls would be consumed when eating a salad.

Please tell me there's a way to change it somewhere.

In my world I live at about Z -10000 and the most I have seen is 2, maybe 3 layers of snow.

The seed I'm currently using may interest you: -8335361358615055950.

I spawned at about Z -9800, and there is a small sequoia forest starting at about X -400, Z -10150 by a large fresh water lake. A little further north, the sequoia forest gets quite a bit bigger, with scattered aspen, white oak, and pine, and bounded on the west by mountains and ocean. There's a really scenic spot at about X -600, Z -10600 with sequoia trees perched around mountain peaks that overlook the ocean. At X -343, Y -10700 there is a little freshwater pond, and a bit further east the sequoia forest turns into a pine/elm forest which is broken by several freshwater lakes. To the north, at about Z -10900, the sequoia forest gives way to rolling hills and plains with scattered lakes, each surrounded by sequoia trees.

The prevailing stone is granite. There are lots of ores, although I haven't done much mining or exploring near the sequoia forest. I have found very large deposits of copper, gold, and silver right near the spawn point, so I have had black bronze nearly from the beginning. There is hematite scattered in various places, but I'm not sure how large the deposits are as I haven't mined any yet. There is bismuth at X 150, Y -10900. There is a large deposit of graphite at X -300, Y -8630. Even further sound I have seen sphalerite. I have not found rock salt yet.

I ran into this bug today. As soon as I chiseled a block into a stair, it turned pitch black. Turning on smooth lighting, even to the lowest setting, fixed it.

It's an interesting idea, but perhaps kind of a lot of work for something that would be little utilized. 

 

For one, I think players would as swiftly as possible move on to better containers.  So having a basket weaving skill seems like overkill, since it probably won't be used enough to justify having a skill.

Very good point. I keep trying to think of another use for a basket weaving skill, but I'm not coming up with much.

• Maybe there could be some advantage that baskets continue to have even when you develop leather backpacks? Like maybe they continue to be cheaper and easier than clay vessels for permanent storage.
• Maybe it could be part of a more generic weaving/tailoring skill that would include leather backpacks and perhaps clothes if the devs ever add that. Maybe it could include the making of thatch too, with higher levels allowing you to make solid thatch.
• Maybe grass or reeds could be required in tool recipes as the component that holds the tool head onto the stick, and the weaving skill would help improve durability of tools. There are probably other uses of reeds that we're not thinking of.

Also, you suggest 'long grass' as an option for material, by which I take it you mean the item 'cut grass'.  But that's also available from the short grass in arid regions.  So if you were suggesting it not be attainable from short grass, that's creating more dev work, as it'd require a separate type of cut grass.  Plus people that start in arid regions are already penalized enough by having no clay in that region, without penalizing them even more by making them be unable to get a basket. I think reeds or cattails would be a better option, with cattails the go-to material.  It would give them a use, though they might need to be made self-renewing.  You need freshwater to survive anyway so it's probably not unreasonable to take cut grass out of the equation, and only accept reeds or cattails.  I'm also not sure the durability thing needs to be there.  It could be made like the crafting grid, where it's a one-time expansion as long as you don't die. 

Yes, I meant cut grass. If reeds or cattails are the only option, they would need to be more common and definitely self-generating in the same way as grass, saplings, and crops.

I think durability needs to be there if there's a skill involved, otherwise there would be no need to make more baskets and raise up your skill.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

Interesting ideas, unfortunately this would annoy many people as the only Stone Age storage method is vessels.

I don't follow. Baskets would help in the stone age by providing another storage method besides clay vessels. Baskets would be especially helpful in regions without clay.

It's an interesting concept, having inventory al la Haven and Hearth, but it strays away from the basic principles that TFC has based itself on from Minecraft.

 

Perhaps this as an add-on would be a good idea?

I agree that it may make a better idea for an add-on than a core feature, but that's up to the developers, I suppose. It depends on what you consider to be a core principle of Minecraft. It seems to me that many features of TFC violate basic principles of Minecraft, but I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with me. TFC has already messed around somewhat with inventory. My suggestions seem more like the next logical step to me.

I've been searching the forum for stuff related to inventory, backpacks, and storage. I'm commenting on this thread, because I think it's one of the most interesting inventory suggestions I've seen, and dovetails with some of the other suggestions I have. I realize not everyone loves the idea of limited inventory, but it doesn't have to be as annoying as many people seem to assume, if it's implemented right.

How much stuff do you really need to collect on your first day? Rocks, sticks, straw, logs, and a few tools (axe, javelin, hammer, knife). Food if you can find it. Isn't that about all you need to create a basic shelter and protect yourself? You could easily survive several days without much inventory.

As someone else mentioned, I would make it so you could use long grass, reeds, or cattails to make a basket. You could make a basket out of freshly cut materials, but its durability would be very low. If you dry them for 3 days first, the durability would be much higher. I don't think this idea would be completely game nerfing. It definitely would make the first few days more challenging. But stay with me, I have more ideas.

One way to enhance this idea would be the addition of a basketweaving skill. The higher your basketweaving skill, the more durable your baskets and the bigger you can make them. As you get access to larger baskets, your inventory would increase in much the same way your crafting grid expands with a crafting table. Baskets would have durability just like tools, and would need to be replaced eventually. I think someone else on the forums suggested that every time you open the basket, its durability would decrease slightly.

I would also extend this to leatherworking and add backpacks and tool belts to the game. I would make leather backpacks provide more inventory space than baskets, if only to provide a milestone and reward you for getting that far in the game. They would also wear out much more slowly. Tool belts could either expand your hot bar or add the ability to assign special hotkeys to quickly retrieve the tools hanging from your belt, even if they weren't in your hot bar. Also, wouldn't it be cool to have a scabbard to hang your sword from your belt?

After a while, your inventory could be just as big as, or even bigger than it is today (if you count the tool belt), except you would have to craft a new basket/backpack every now and then.

As part of this change, I would consider pressing E to be equivalent to putting your basket/backpack/barrel down—especially considering you can't do anything else while you have your inventory open anyway. So I would eliminate the need to put baskets/backpacks/barrels down to see and use what's inside them. And you should only have to seal barrels if you're carrying liquid. Of course, you should still be able to put down your basket/backpack/barrel if you want. Thus baskets would provide larger permanent storage earlier in the game. As a tradeoff, food would decay more quickly in baskets, and baskets would wear out (unlike clay vessels). Maybe baskets should also be limited to items that aren't too heavy (they're break the basket!).

Making the increase of your inventory a goal with set milestones in the game would, I think, make inventory interesting and even rewarding over time, and some of the specific suggestions I've given would actually make inventory more convenient than it was before.

Nice solution. 

 

Aren't you risking loss on some ore though?  Each # has a potential ore block in the floor under it right?

Yes, good point! I hadn't thought of that. I suppose I could mine out all the blocks directly above the floor, too. Then I could chisel them all, like you do.

I usually just bring extra picks and use max size supports, but can see where the efficiency would be appealing.  I do a top floor with max length supports.  Once that's complete, I chisel all the floor blocks and use those as a ceiling for the next level down (still throw up supports since it just looks better)

So you mine out every single block? I'm still in the early game, and I'm limited enough on resources that I don't love the idea of using up several pickaxes on a single floor of my mine. When you say max length supports, are you talking about the width or height? I thought the height was unlimited.

I spent some time today trying to come up with a good layout for a mine that will expose all available ore without cave-ins and with as little wear on my pickaxe as possible. I laid out about 10 different options in a text editor, and I tried using the one that seemed the best while playing today. It worked quite well.

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- # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # -

- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

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- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # X X X # . # # . # X X X # . # # . # X X X # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

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- # # # # . # X X X # . # # . # X X X # . # # . # X X X # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # # . # X . # X . # # . # # . X # . X # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # .  .  . . X . . X .  .  .  .  . X . . X .  .  . . # # # # -

W # # # # . # X X X X . # X . # X X X # . X # . X X X X # . # # # # E

- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # S S # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # X X X # . # # . # X X X # . # # . # X X X # . # # # # -

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- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # X X X # . # # . # X X X # . # # . # X X X # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # . # # # # -

- # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # -

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This is an overhead view. The hashtags are stone blocks, dots are tunnels, and Xs are support beams. The bold SS is the initial 2-wide shaft coming down from the surface. When I reach the spot I want to start mining, I put a support beam right next to the shaft. The red text is the area supported by the initial support beam (shown in bold red Xs). I start by digging out to the west and east to the edges of the supported area. Then I dig three parallel tunnels going north and south with two blocks between each tunnel. This exposes all the ore in the initial supported area and saves some wear on my pickaxe. I can keep going north and south, placing support beams every four blocks, until I run out of ore to mine in those directions.

If I want to expand east or west, I place support beams (underlined in red above) along the east or west edge of the initial supported area, tunnel three more blocks outward, place another support beam (underlined in blue above), tunnel three more blocks, and place a support beam (blue bold above) on the same line as my original. Then I make three parallel tunnels going north and south as before. This second set of tunnels is shown in blue, assuming I expanded east.

You can repeat this pattern forever, in any direction you want to go, until you run out of ore to mine.

I dig all my tunnels 2 blocks high. This exposes all ores except those directly above the support beams, which can't be mined anyway without risk of a cave-in. I only dig 3 high when I need to place another support beam.

I have only done one level so far, but I am planning mine out all ores in the floor, but only down 1 block. I will fill in those spots with cobblestone. If I want to go any deeper, I will return to my initial shaft, dig down 4 blocks, and start over. This would make the floor of the upper level the same as the ceiling of the next level down. All the cobblestone I place in the floor of the upper level will be supported by new support beams as I dig out the lower level. I hope that will work.

I'm curious what you think and if you have any suggestions for improvement. How do you mine to maximize how much ore you get while minimizing wear on your pickaxe?

Sounds like a daunting set of criteria. I have a hard time deciding where I want to live. There are so many things that are nice to have nearby. I'm just thankful I spawned in a relatively warm area in my first world.

I didn't see your comment, Kitty. Looks like I was just a couple hundred blocks from the ocean you found to the north before I decided to explore south instead. Sigh.

Haha. Just a few minutes after posting the seed, I ran into an ocean. X 202, Z -5842. Spawn was about Z -9900.

World seed is: -8335361358615055950

It's actually a pretty good seed. I've found very large deposits of copper, gold, and silver close to spawn, so my first metal was actually black bronze. There's hematite nearby that I haven't mined yet. I found graphite not too far south of spawn. There are lots of pigs and sheep (no cows yet). But that ocean continues to elude me. I haven't traveled super far in every direction yet though. We'll see.

It seems simple to find an ocean. "Keep going west, can't miss it." Haha. But seriously, roughly how big are the landmasses? 5000 blocks, 10000, more?

I thought sand was also found by rivers. I've found a few rivers, but no sand.

This feels like a silly thing to start a discussion about, but I can't find sand, for heaven's sake. I've traveled thousands of blocks in my world, and all I ever see near the water is gravel. Is this a biome thing, or what? Is sand really that hard to find in real life? It's hard for me to imagine (I live in a desert). What if we could create sand by sifting dirt or something? That would be cool.

I found out about TFC when I was looking for a mod with more realistic weapons. I can't remember which forum I ended up on, but it mentioned TFS and Better than Wolves. They both sounded interesting, but I was still intent on playing just vanilla Minecraft at the time. When I finally got tired of that, I looked into it again and went for TFS because it seemed not quite as hard and I liked the mining and metallurgy features better.

That is a beautiful map. If I could get one landscape feature in Minecraft it would be more natural rivers that flow with the surrounding landscape out to the sea.