teiwaz

There was some discussion on making a flowchart in the Wiki Edits thread. I decided to take a shot at it since it seemed fun. So without further ado, here's a progression flowchart for TFC! This flowchart is by no means done yet, but I've made an in-progress snapshot to hear any thoughts or suggestions about it. I'm aiming to provide a clear overview picture of progression in TFC. Trying to add in too much detail makes the flowchart unmanageably complex, so I'm also balancing how much detail to add and how much to trim away. TODO FoodLivestockMiscellaneous itemsColor paths to make crossings less ambiguousChangelog v0.4 2015-06-14 Finished smithing stuff.Added Quern recipes.Rerouting.v0.3 2015-06-11 Use new mapping software (automatically generated -> manual).Clean up flowchart so now it's actually usable, at the expense of removing some detail.v0.2 2015-06-09 Added a few images.Added legend.Added ages.Added more content.

Currently, wooden buckets can hold fresh water, salt water, milk, and vinegar. Is there any particular reason why wooden buckets cannot also be used to hold tannin, alcohol, brine, curdled milk and/or limewater? I ask out of both curiosity and a need for believability and consistency. All of these liquids can be put into wooden barrels, so why can only some of them be put in wooden buckets?

Preface: I did search the forums. There are a number of posts that are related to this topic, but they are all very old and not exactly the same thing as this, so I made a new thread to prevent necro and spamming general hand-wavy suggestion threads. Currently Bones have two uses (correct me if I'm wrong): Stick replacement for stone tools and ground into Bone Meal as a dye. Considering that Bones drop a lot when butchering animals and that bones were historically very useful parts of animals (for food, tools, fertilizer, animal feed, jewelry, the list goes on), I think Bones deserve more functionality in TFC. Possible uses: As fertilizerBone Meal directly as fertilizer, perhaps less efficient than Sylvite for balance.Make Sylvite grind into Sylvite Powder, and add recipe for Sylvite Powder + Bone Meal = Fertilizer.As livestock feedBone Meal as alternative livestock feed.Bone Meal accelerates livestock growth.Bone Meal increases livestock size for butchering.As foodBones used to make Broth, which can then be used to make Soup or Stew, as another alternative to prepared food alongside Salads and Sandwiches.Cooked or processed into Bone Marrow as a food. Very small amounts per bone, provides Protein.As fuel?Alternative fuel for firepits that burns at lower temperature. (There is evidence of bones being used like this in places where firewood is scarce. There needs to be roughly equal proportion of bones and firewood.)As bone charhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_charBone char can be used as black dye.Bone char added as requirement to process sugar.As tools/weaponsAs arrowheadBones used as an alternative or replacing rocks in the recipe for Arrows, making arrows either more or less expensive.Bones used to make Bone Tipped Arrows, does more damage than regular Arrows. (For balance, perhaps make Bone Arrows do the current amount of arrow damage and make regular arrows do less damage.)Bone as alternative to Stone for making tool heads.

Have you read, understood, and followed all of the rules listed in large text at the top of the support forum? (Yes/No): Yes TFC Version #:0.79.18Forge Version #:10.13.4.1488SSP/SMP (SinglePlayer/MultiPlayer):SSPDescription:Vanilla fences can be crafting using six sticks.Have you deleted your config files or are using default configs and are still able to reproduce this bug? (Yes/No):YesDo you have any mods other than Forge and TFC installed? (Yes/No):YesIf yes, which mods? Fastcraft NEI WailaIf you have Optifine or Cauldron installed, can you still reproduce the bug after uninstalling them? (Yes/No):N/APastebin.com link of the Crash Report:N/A

Okay, consider this a bug report for fixing the wiki then.

v0.4 Finished smithing stuff.Added Quern recipes.Rerouting.https://d.maxfile.ro/xlshrhprky.png

Have you read, understood, and followed all of the rules listed in large text at the top of the support forum? (Yes/No):Yes TFC Version #:0.79.18Forge Version #:10.13.3.1422SSP/SMP (SinglePlayer/MultiPlayer):SSPDescription:Sometimes after a pit kiln is finished burning, the fire goes out and the pit kiln is still present as it was before igniting.Have you deleted your config files or are using default configs and are still able to reproduce this bug? (Yes/No):YesDo you have any mods other than Forge and TFC installed? (Yes/No):YesIf yes, which mods? Fastcraft NEI (+CodeChickenCore) If you have Optifine or Cauldron installed, can you still reproduce the bug after uninstalling them? (Yes/No):Not installedPastebin.com link of the Crash Report:No crash.

Kitty, is it necessary to check for fire above the pit kiln? In what situation would the timer run out and there not be fire above the pit kiln and we don't want it to complete? Edit: Talking about your bugfix. I think that commit would fix the bug, but do we need the check in the first place?

I've attached a picture of a bugged pit kiln, although you probably don't need it at this point. It seems to keep ticking. I just tried cheating in a fire block with NEI and placing it on the bugged pit kiln. Indeed, the pit kiln then completes successfully.

Sorry, I already have it installed and forgot to list it. It says something like 0 hours remaining (0.0%) pointing at the top of the lumber stack of the pit kiln, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure how reproducible it is, I'll try to post more information if I can manage to reproduce it.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought the current system was unacceptable because I assumed 9 second draw time across the board. Now that I know armor affects it, I can see that the current system is "acceptable" (I think we all know archery in TFC needs some kind of improvement, but how exactly to improve it...).

I didn't realize that armor affected draw time.However, I don't think "the bow will do the first pullback animation, which you can start firing less than halfway through" is right. At least in metal armor, you can only start firing a dozen ticks after the first animation ends (from personal tests).It looks like my times are slightly off since I used a clock for timing. Roughly 9 seconds for a full draw in metal armor, not 10.

Except if you draw for slightly less than that, the bow doesn't fire at all, and there's no visual indicator for where that point is. The damage also doesn't scale linearly; a 5 second charge fires a limp arrow that travels even less than a javelin and does barely any damage. Edit: The bow's damage scales linearly after the point where you can fire, so it looks something like Seconds 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10Damage 0% --------- 0% 10% 50% 100%If I wanted to do a "half charge", I would have to draw for 7-8 seconds, and at that point I may as well go the full 10 seconds.

Exactly, rezzing is a special case. Imagine if standard skills in WoW all had 10+ second cast times. That's basically archery in TFC right now. Look, arrows stack up to 16 right? It would take more than two and a half minutes to fire 16 arrows at full charge. Vanilla Minecraft smelting takes 10 seconds. Drawing a bow in TFC takes the same amount of time as cooking iron ore into ingots in Vanilla. TNT takes 4 seconds to explode. You can detonate two blocks of TNT consecutively in the time it takes to draw a TFC bow. I can't emphasize enough how slow it is. OP used six "very"s. If each "very" took one second to say, that's still four seconds faster than drawing a bow in TFC. If it took you ten seconds to type a word, a 500-word essay would take an hour and a half to type non-stop.

Simply halving both the damage and the full draw time on the current bow and arrows would make archery a lot more palatable without affecting balance too much. Right now it takes around 10 seconds, and you have to draw for 3-4 seconds just to fire an arrow. That's absurd. I mean, Halo's Spartan Laser takes four seconds to charge, to make an over-the-top comparison. I can't think of any game that requires you to charge up a skill or weapon for ten seconds and for good reason, it sucks as a game mechanic.

Version v0.3 https://d.maxfile.ro/bamazxknaj.png I was using a graph generator to deal with TFC's complexity, but I think that's unmanageable in the long run, so I've switched to doing the layout manually. Unfortunately that still doesn't solve the fundamental complexity problem, so I'll start dropping some details, like how Querns depend on sticks.

I think I need to simplify things a bit, this is way too messy. https://d.maxfile.ro/mqgsjtqees.png

Pickling requires metal for a saw for barrels, so that will be in the flowchart. The point of a flowchart as opposed to a guide is that it leaves the decision-making ultimately up to the player. If they want to live life on the starvation edge while pursuing tech, that's certainly possible, and vice versa. I'm just laying out the hard dependencies that are required for making a certain item or doing a certain task.

I'm sure I'll add it at some point, but food gathering isn't important in terms of progressing. It doesn't enable more tech or require any tech. (Banana swords and bacon maces, anyone?)

I sort of agree with Bletch. I have no experience working on Minecraft mods, but I am a programmer, and my natural instinct tells me that buckets can be implemented as generic liquid containers. This would also make it easier on the devs in the long run if more liquids are added in the future, they won't have to build more and more hard-coded case-by-case code. Still, I have no complaints if the devs spend their time working on bigger and better features than this.

Thanks. The only reason I have left is believability. I'm not pushing for this feature to be added, I was just curious as to why this is the case, as TFC pays so much attention to details elsewhere that when I ran into this it stuck out for me.

I can come up with more reasons if you want, but my main question was "Why?" and based on your answers, I've inferred that bucket liquids are hard-coded and do not share common code like metals do with ingots and sheets, and that the ability of buckets to hold liquids was added specifically for those liquids that needed buckets and neither programmer bothered to add that functionality for the other liquids, i.e., it would take a lot of effort to add and isn't worth it. Here's another reason I thought up just now: I only have one barrel of alcohol, and I want to make 6000 mB of vinegar. I don't have access to glass bottles, or I can't be bothered to perform four times as many transferring actions than I would have needed to were I able to use buckets instead. And another: I want to move large amounts of alcohol from one place to another, and I can't see why I shouldn't be able to use buckets to increase the amount of alcohol I can carry at one time (buckets in barrel, buckets in inventory, buckets on donkey).

Thanks for the quick response. What if a player made one full barrel of tannin, but wanted to split the tannin across five barrels to process five pieces of hide simultaneously? Or if I had one barrel of 2000 mB of limewater and one barrel of 10000 mB and wanted to split them into 6000 mB and 6000 mB?